[bamawrx]

What are our top priorities between now and the mid-term elections? Here are a few ideas in no particular order.

DC gun ban
SCOTUS nominations if any
National CCW
Importation ban AW
Lawsuit reform


I think our margin may be too thin to sneak in a 1986 repeal or at least open up the NFA roster. I think we should try as I want to fight on our side of issue not on theirs. Don't forget the Stewart case is moving forward on Nov 8th! We must watch that one.

My big fear now is that the pro-gun house, senate, and president will not give us some relief, and then in two years the gun culture will stay home and not vote out of frustration.

Any other ideas?

[Jim March]

Those are a good start!

:)

The bill fixing the DC gun ban is already in progress (passed the house) so it comes up first by default now that we have the Senate.

The first new bill proposed should be the manufacturer liability bill. The gunmakers can't hold out forever, we're going to have to help 'em out quick.

[Bartholomew Roberts]

The votes are already there for lawsuit reform and DC gun ban repeal.

Wait until a new Senate is seated so we can shoot down some of the killer amendments that are sure to be proposed and we should be OK to move on those.

We can still be filibustered though - that alone means that we won't be able to push anything even semi-controversial through... though I still think if you frame the question the right way you could tack "Self defense" onto the sporting purposes clause and that would be a big change from a legislative standpoint.

One priority is to start grooming a viable pro-RKBA candidate for President in 2008.

[El Tejon]

Elimination of the "sporting use" test in the SSA of '68.
Moving suppressors to Title I.

[Telperion]

There's unfinished business with the Lawful Commerce in Arms Act, and the DC Gun Ban.

If those can be resolved in our favor, I think we need to start working on a "FOPA 2": move for some small but meaningful reforms such as eliminating the "sporting purposes" clause, relaxing some interstate sale rules, codify some protection for FFL holders. Add in a good trial balloon like Title I suppressors, and see how far we can go. I'm with you El T. :D

[The_Antibubba]

Without delay, the movement to laser-etch each round of ammunition with it's very own serial number be squashed, discredited, and forever annihalated!! The nation's gun owners must turn their attentions here. We cannot do it alone.

[Fly320s]

All of what bamawrx said, plus:

-Repeal of FOPA '86 (or a least new machine guns for us)
-Suppressors to title I staus, thanks El Tejon

[mtnbkr]

I think the DC Gun Ban should be primary. If any locale needs the right to self defense, it's DC. Also, if the people living there learn the value of self defense, it *might* change their opinions of Conservatives.

I'm all for a big honkin gunshow right on the Mall. :D

Chris

[bamawrx]

what about pipsqueaks idea about relaxing interstate commerce laws. Since all background checks are federal now, why not set up a system like the CMP. Heck, expand CMP to include handguns M-16's M-14's etc..

ok I'm dreaming now...

[mr_dove]

Those are all good suggestions. My pipe dream would be to have an increased market of machine guns available to purchase.

We could keep them just as difficult to get in order to appease the alarmists. I think I, too, would have some concerns if machine guns were TOO easy to get. I just want more selection and sub $5000 prices.

I'd pay a big premium just to have access to some of the newer toys.

[PMDW]

I think I, too, would have some concerns if machine guns were TOO easy to get.

70 years, and only one registered MG was used in a crime. More people have been killed with sporks than registered MGs. I think it is perfectly safe to kill the 86 ban.

[Henry Bowman]

I think I, too, would have some concerns if machine guns were TOO easy to get.
Riiiiight. Way too evil. Could cause spontaneous outbreaks of freedom and other liberties. Can't have any of that stuff. Why, something might happen. :rolleyes:

[Bravo11]

Free gov't ammo for those who can't afford it. Like Food Stamps or gov't cheese.:D

[71Commander]

National CCW, regardless of states laws prohibiting same.

[Harry Tuttle]

passage of Gun Maker Immunity

a reaffirmation of the 1982 report on the Second Amendment:
http://www.constitution.org/mil/rkba1982.htm
including a recognition of the utility of a modern militia
armed with likearms of the National Guard soldier

Semi auto AR15s and M14s added to the CMP program

establishment of 5 rifle/handgun ranges per State

Sara Brady, Tom Diaz, and Michael Moore pilloried

[Smurfslayer]

End the NPS gun ban. NOW!

I'll be following up with my friends in the Senate & House. Everyone here should think about the same. This is only Administrative code, not Federal Statutory law.

The NPS ban is a direct infringement of 2AUSC.
It defies President Bush's belief in the INDIVIDUAL right the 2A confers.
National parks are incredibly dangerous, understaffed, and sparsely patrolled.
Finally, and most importantly:

The National Rifle Association membership, Instructors, Grass roots supporters, members of pro-firearms email discussion lists, Internet sites and firearms owning citizens of the United States entrusted Republicans in the Senate, House of Representatives, and specifically, President George Bush with the safeguarding of our RIGHT to bear arms. We upheld our end of the bargain, NOW, it is time for our elected officials to uphold theirs.

We came through for the Republican party. Now, it is time for them to uphold the United States Constitution, and end the National Park Service ban on firearms, recognizing the citizens' right to bear arms.

[FPrice]

Maybe now would be time for a united effort by ALL pro-gun groups to prioritize and act in concert on the kinds of action that have been mentioned here.

[wdlsguy]

Get rid of the Chief LEO signoff on ATF form 1's and 4's. In other words, make the application for NFA weapons shall-issue.

[Langenator]

DC Gun Ban
Lawsuit Protection
Removal of the 'sporting purposes' import restrictions

National CCW recognition, not a federal permit. Meaning if a person is licensed in their home state (or allowed to CCW at home-VT, AK), they are licensed/allowed in all 50 states plus territories. This would really, really freak out IL, NY, and the PRK blissninnies.

[Henry Bowman]

Get rid of the Chief LEO signoff on ATF form 1's and 4's. In other words, make the application for NFA weapons shall-issue.
Excellent proposal. Now just convince enough Senators that they should endure the skewering they would get from the media and that what they would get in return would be worth it.

A smaller step in the same direction might be to remove suppressors from the NFA list. Promote it as a safety (hearing loss) and pro-environment (noise) issue.

[Molon Labe]

I think I, too, would have some concerns if machine guns were TOO easy to get. I just want more selection and sub $5000 prices.What do you mean by "too easy to get"? What restrictions would be reasonable to you?

[Harry Tuttle]

CCRKBA HAILS ELECTION RESULTS, SAYS WORK ON GUN RIGHTS AGENDA BEGINS NOW
The Citizens Committee for the Right to Keep and Bear Arms (CCRKBA) this morning congratulated gun owners who turned out in record numbers across the country for "providing the critical votes necessary to strengthen the pro-gun majority on Capitol Hill, and keep a pro-gun President in the White House."

However, said CCRKBA Chairman Alan Gottlieb, "The real work begins now. This is the first real opportunity that gun owners have had in recent memory to go on the offensive. We need to immediately begin pushing for an expansion of the armed pilots program, and perhaps equally important to homeland security, we need to pass national concealed carry legislation for private citizens."

CCRKBA was first to call for the arming of commercial airline pilots on Sept. 11, 2001 while smoke was still rising from the World Trade Center in New York and the Pentagon in Virginia. It took a leadership role in pushing legislation on Capitol Hill to create a training program for pilots, and has been among the loudest critics of bureaucrats within the Departments of Transportation and Homeland Security for deliberately road blocking that important program.

"George Bush and the Republican majority in Congress are in office today, and will be tomorrow, largely because of the hard work, devotion and activism of America's firearms owners," Gottlieb stated. "It is time for Congress and the White House to fix the armed pilots program, and to provide the same right of national concealed carry to law-abiding American citizens that they provided this year to off-duty and retired police officers. No matter what an American citizen does for a living, they do not leave their right of self-defense at the border of their home state.

"Tuesday's monumental victory was not merely a victory for Republicans," Gottlieb observed. "It was a victory for the Second Amendment, and for all of those law-abiding citizens who volunteered in campaigns, who put up signs, sent money, rang doorbells, made telephone calls and worked so hard to protect their individual right to keep and bear arms.

"The hard work that lies ahead," he said, "will be aimed at strengthening our rights, and thus make America stronger. We now have a clear chance to start, as Gen. Douglas McArthur called it, ‘the long road back' toward regaining lost firearms freedoms, and expanding the ability of all Americans to be safe, in the air, on our streets and in our homes."

With more than 650,000 members and supporters nationwide, the Citizens Committee for the Right to Keep and Bear Arms is one of the nation's premier gun rights organizations. As a non-profit organization, the Citizens Committee is dedicated to preserving firearms freedoms through active lobbying of elected officials and facilitating grass-roots organization of gun rights activists in local communities throughout the United States.


-END-

[Smurfslayer]

Dubya - Tee - Eff ?

Amred Pilots? get real and get over it.

Stop arming the "privileged class" and start standing up for the citizen, not the "ruling elite". They need to immediately abandon the armed pilots debacle, and concentrate on the rights of the citizens.

It's sort of like we're playing mother may I with our "lobbyists"

Us: We need national concealed carry recognition, now.
CCRKBA: We need Armed pilots !
Gov't: We need better armed law enforcement!


:rolleyes:

[stevelyn]

Top priorities are and not necessarily in that order.

1) National concealed carry recognition.
2) Lawsuit immunity for gun makers.
3) Import ban.
4) Remove sporting purpose clause.
5) Repeal MG ban from FOPA '86

I would keep the DC ban down on the bottom of the list of things to do and work on issues that affect the rest of us nationally.
In case you haven't noticed, Kerry received 90% of the vote in DC. Perhaps the DC gun ban is less important to them than it is for the rest of us.
DC voters have a history of voting foolishly..........let'em suffer the fate of fools.

Edited to add:

Whatever priority we choose to work on, just remember that we have two years at most to accomplish the tasks at hand. Mid-term elections could remove any advantages we now have.

[Standing Wolf]

National CCW, regardless of states laws prohibiting same.

Nope. Sorry. I don't want the great white father within five miles of my holster.

[jefnvk]

As a younger one, I want to be able to buy ammo for my .45 at Wal-Mart. And I want to be able to buy a handgun at a dealer's, going through the NICS, instewad of trying to find a private party that has for sale what I want.

[Nathaniel Firethorn]

National CCW, for those of us marooned in the various workers' paradises.

- pdmoderator

[jpthegeek]

i would like to try and lose the FFL system, national carry is nice, but being able to buy and sell goods the way the free markets dictates seems a better place to start for me

[RealGun]

National CCW, regardless of states laws prohibiting same.

I feel like we need to get this issue under control and all mean the same thing when referring to it. I see mention of it as a good idea, yet I agree completely with keeping the Feds out of it...the States too. The Feds can giveth and they can taketh away in a later Congress. The Fed will have nothing to say about it until they confront States that ignore the 2nd and 14th Amendments. Otherwise we will just hear whining about State's rights, when they try to get involved.

I also don't like laws that workaround the Supreme Court's failure or refusal to rule on the same question already covered by the Constitution.

To me, national CCW is just a workaround for lack of incorporation of the 2nd Amendment via the 14th, possibly "full faith and credit". I think the field must be cleared first, as in making it unconstitutional for any State or city within the state to ban firearms or create no-gun zones without meeting compelling tests of State interest or property rights. Licensing would not be legal because gun ownership is not a privilege, subject to regulation.

I would also remove all bans of guns on Federal property when without any apparent justification. Right now it is simply categorical, as if the Fed doesn't approve of gun ownership or self defense.

Note that "National CCW" is a misnomer. CCW does not refer to a license. It is the act of carrying (Carrying a Concealed Weapon).

States do not have the constitutional authority to regulate firearms. They are ignoring the 14th Amendment and are not being challenged by the Federal government. Congress should remove the Supreme Court's incorporation doctrine, making all of the BoR applicable to States, KABLAM! We really need to fix that.

If the States lose their say on whether we can carry a concealed weapon, the National licensing thing becomes moot. If we start accepting or even promoting workarounds, we just dig a deeper hole for future generations. Let the spider weave his own web. The last thing we should do is propose gun control legislation.

States are doing really well lately at reciprocity and out of state license recognition. Let's be patient and keep our eyes on the ball. I think where you want to be is carrying a concealed weapon by free choice, no regulation by any State. Safety and training can easily be promoted by grass roots efforts and gun shops, but it is no ones place to put conditions on the 2nd Amendment.

To me, we would have two fronts. One would be defensive actions in Congress, not offensive, never proposing legislation except repeals. The other and big one would be finding and funding Federal Court cases and forming class actions to have our rights restored.

Where I would like to be is basing gun ownership on the 2nd Amendment and not having to be concerned what State or city I am in. Also, short of violent felony, I don't want loss of my gun rights hanging over my head all the time. I don't want it to be some regulator's judgment about whether I have been a good boy or not.

Lastly, about Schumer and Feinstein. I want to be able to buy the same rifle as available to the police and used as military standard issue. The 2nd Amendment guarantees me not only a gun but a militarily competitive one. It should be freely acknowledged that the rifle is indeed for military purposes, not for some politically correct reason that is actually a lie. Then we reach the "sporting purposes" limitation issue, repeal of which I completely support.

Basically GOA already has a hit list for legislative action. We pay them to know what's happening and to set priorities.

My most immediate concern is the Homeland Security Act, stuck in conference, Congress in a rush to compromise and pass it, and the likelihood that the Senate provision for civil rights oversight will be dropped in conference. Congress got away with the Patriot Act and we complain about it bitterly. They are about to do it again, leaving civil rights oversight to the Executive Branch (the President's discretion). The 2nd Amendment is a civil right. Abusing one right sets the stage for abusing another. We need to make it clear that such things are not at Congress's discretion, especially if they care about being reelected.

The other big one in that bill is McCain's late night slam dunk of a provision for a national ID card. That at least needs to go back for proper debate and a quorum vote. I see it as poorly conceived, especially if tied to driver's licenses, and some citizens don't drive. McCain is fond of big brotherism and should be called to task on this one.

I also want to see a confrontation between Congress and the TSA over arming pilots. They should have continuous hearings on the matter until it is settled. TSA either has discretion or they don't. Implement the law as clearly intended or else. It's possible that Congress may have to add some more explicit language to the law, asserting their authority and ensuring that the law is implemented as intended. Either that or repeal it. Make it mean something or say, just kidding. If Minetta has good reason to obstruct implementation, let him make his case, not be in contempt of Congress and the law. I think this is a good one to give a higher profile to guns as a good thing. Beyond that, the basics of what happened on 9/11 still haven't been addressed, thanks to TSA. Saying "pilots can't be trusted, they might shoot someone, guns are for hunting, crime, and law enforcement" is just good old fashioned gun control, and Congress is allowing it, despite having ruled otherwise.

That'll keep everyone busy for awhile.

[Nightfall]

Frivolous lawsuit immunity, without a doubt. All the repealed MG or suppressor laws in the world won't make a difference if there's nobody left to make them, or if it involves too much legal liability to be worthwhile.

The thought of new MGs or other goodies makes me drool just like any other gunny, but protecting the firearms industry from lefty, blood-sucking lawyers is far more important.

IMHO, that is.

[Smurfslayer]

I know it's nice to think about the ugly post '86 machine gun ban going away, and national concealed carry, but honestly, we haven't made any progress in the last 4 years, other than the inaction of NOT renewing the '94 AWB. It's not that we shouldn't have long term goals, but you're not going to get all of that, or maybe even 2 of these items in the next 10 - 20 years. We didn't lose RKBA overnight, and we won't retake it overnight...legally...

I think that "national reciprocity" would be a double edged sword. You could have the "National Law Enforcement Officer's Safety Act" amended so that any permit issued by any entity of legal authority in the US to also be recognized. However, the result of that would be one or more of :
MA, NY, NJ, CA, MD suing to overturn the law as unconstitutional. While this was being litigated, they would refuse to honor ANY permits from non residents, with "zero tolerance" prosecution. Remember, to these states, the world is comprised of 2 groups. Us & Them. In this case, to these states, we are THEM. This will eventually result in the act being overturned in court - back to square one.

This may not be bad. It would put agents of the States back on the same level of privilege as, well... Citizens. As it should be.

I think National parks is the "low hanging fruit" here. It's not backed up by statutory law, and can be logically argued out without great hue and cry. National reciprocity would call the Anti gun forces to arms immediately, loudly, and without mercy.

I think another good avenue of pursuit would be to deny all federal $$$ to ALL states which mandate a permit to purchase, own, possess firearms - allow them the permit to carry system. Think about it - All those Anti gun states would need to reform, or, go bankrupt overnight. Congress has the power of the purse, and they should use it. The right to self defense shouldn't stop at a political boundary unless you're part of the "privileged class"...

And things like FOPA, FFL system, Gun shows, what have you; They're ingrained on society, they've taken on a Governmental regulatory life of their own. You guys are talking about 'slaying' a living, evolving Gov. program... It's going to fight back. The best you can reasonably expect at first is to curtail it's reach. Chip away at it piece, by piece...

[tyme]

realgun, I admire the GOA, but what have they done proactively except file a lawsuit challenging the campaign finance reform law? Everything else they do seems to be a reaction to some bill that is already in congress.

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=109487

[RealGun]

realgun, I admire the GOA, but what have they done proactively except file a lawsuit challenging the campaign finance reform law? Everything else they do seems to be a reaction to some bill that is already in congress.

I am a GOA member and think well of it. I am not a spokesman nor do I know enough to be a champion. I would ask that you reframe your post as a statement instead of a question.

[Langenator]

On the DC Gun Ban:

I think it might actually be a good thing if it doesn't make it out of Congress, because that allows the lawsuits seeking to have it overturned by the courts can continue. If the ban isn't there, the suit is moot.

And if SCOTUS says that a locality can't ban guns, that includes Chicago and all the other cities that do.

[Bubbles]

I think that getting strict constitutionalist judges nominated at all levels to the Federal judiciary is a good first step. The legislative acts - national CCW reciprocity, carry in National Parks, repeals of gun bans - can all be re-enacted by a future Congress. We have a much better chance of keeping any hard-fought gains in the gun rights fight with the judiciary on our side writing opinions upholding RKBA as an individual right.

[cpileri]

Can I just say that its good to see threads like this one: it shows that the pro-2A community is uniting at a grassroots level regardless of NRA, GOA, SAS or whatever affiliation.
Unity is exactly what we need.
If we can continue to get hunters on board...
C-

[Smurfslayer]

Any ruling by the SC would be extremely narrowly tailored to answer the specific question at hand. That is assuming the case would be granted Cert., which it certainly would not. No, any gun or 2A case will die at the appeals level until years after the makeup of this court is changed. Still,
let's assume, for the sake of discussion, a case on whether the DC gun ban infringes the 2A.

Let's even assume that they overrule the trial court and say that the 2A DOES apply to DC. The ruling will answer the direct question about ownership, and that's it. There still won't be any gun shops in DC, thus, the infringement will continue since zoning is a local ( DC Council ) issue.

It will also not answer the silly "unloaded in your house" question, it will ONLY address the issue of ownership & possession.

Congress can, at any time with proper fortitude, completely preempt DC on guns, and I think they should start by witholding all fed. funding until they comply with the Constitution.

All these ideas... well, except the armed pilots... are good, but how to implement, gain support, lobby effectively - any suggestions on those points?

[tyme]

Realgun, I like the GOA too. They fight bad legislation and they fight hoplophobes in court.

Have they ever been successful at getting a piece of legislation passed or even introduced in congress, one that would roll back unconstitutional gun laws? What about an amendment to a bill?

[RealGun]

Have they (GOA) ever been successful at getting a piece of legislation passed or even introduced in congress, one that would roll back unconstitutional gun laws? What about an amendment to a bill?

You might find answers to your questions at gunowners.org. I don't know if they even see such initiatives as part of their mission. Such bills wouldn't have their name on it in any case. I would think you would find reference to their lobbyists taking credit for influencing legislation.

You might do well addressing your questions directly to Larry Pratt at 703-321-8585, which is just south of the DC beltway.

I guess I would have the same questions about other organizations, NRA et al. I don't think they are in the habit of actually authoring bills, since just about any gun law is a bad one, something to fight rather than propose. Even gun manufacturer lawsuit protection is questionable, because that is just a patch on the general problem of frivolous lawsuits. We'll take it, when it serves our interests, but I think we know better. We could avoid the fight over guns as a high profile issue by backing general tort reform.

What GOA has done is go to court, and that's where I think the big fight really is. What can Congress do right, when the 2nd Amendment already exists. One way to repeal bad laws is to get them ruled unconstitutional, directly or indirectly. The rest is lobbying against bad laws proposed by Congressmen or the White House.

Not sure what else to offer.

[Silver Bullet]

How about mandatory gun safety classes for schools ? Or at least as mandatory as sex-ed classes are ?