[Telemekhos]

Hey,
I live in MI, and have had my CCW for 2 years now. I currently own a Glock 17 and 26 (my daily carry). I am in the market for a new carry weapon and would really like to get something in a compact 1911 style. The issue is that im not that keen on .45 caliber stuff. I really prefer the 9mm if possible. Money is not a big issue if i can get the right thing. Some stuff ive been looking at are below. Please adivse.

Kimber Ultra Carry II .45 (only caliber available)

Springfield Armory Ultra Compact 9mm (only available in SS finish)

Para Ord Warthog .45 (Only if i can get a magazine boot to fit my hand)

Colt Defender .45 (only caliber available).

This is about all ive been able to find so far. I really like the beavertail, and hammer which is why im steering away from the glock-types. Any experience, suggestions, etc would be very helpful.
thanks,
-T-

[driven]

Hi Telemekhos
If you don't like .45 then (if you haven't done this already) I'd suggest borrowing/renting at least one of the guns on your list that are in .45 and putting a box of hardball through it. That should give you the answer on getting one in that caliber.
I have the Springfield Micro in .45 and like it very much. Great CCW gun. I don't know how it works with 9mm, but maybe magazines will be difficult to find?

[Telemekhos]

Hey,
The springfield is an awesome gun and is certainly on my radar. However, as i always have to complicate the process, i really wanted a matte or glossy black (blue) gun instead of the stainless, i really feel like it would attract more attention if inadvertantly seen. Also, what will hardball ammo do to help me understand the .45 better?
thanks,
-T-

[Chipperman]

What is it about 1911's that you like?
You prefer 9mm, so it's not the caliber. Is it the safety, the feel/ergonomics, etc? Is it just the exposed hammer and beavertail?

Have you considered other platforms that are available in 9mm?
HK, Sig, Walther, Ruger, S&W, etc

[Telemekhos]

What i really like about the 1911 are the safety feautres as well as the look. I love the beavertail, hammer, safety etc, but also really like the classic look of the 1911 as opposed to the more "modern" glocks, hk, etc.
So far, the only 1911 type that ive found in a 9mm are the springfield line.

the problem with the .45 IMO in the compact packages is the immense kick and vibration that occurs compared to similar 9mm guns (which i am much more comfortable/accuate with).

thanks,
-T-

[MrMurphy]

Have you ever SHOT a .45? They generally don't recoil that hard.

The 4" barrel Commander-size 1911s are generally the easiest to both hide and shoot comfortably. The 3" 1911s are hard to hang onto (I saw a gunwriter, who I will not name, draw a 3" 1911 he was testing in a training school exercise and lose it right into the dirt in front of the target when his grip slipped off the tiny grip), and DO recoil hard.

The Commander size (similar in size to a Glock 19, but thinner) is easy to hide, and easy to shoot. They don't whack you hard.

Several companies, such as Para-Ordnance, also make their 1911s in .40 S&W, and 9mm. The Para-Ordnance P12 or P13 in .40 or 9mm would work.


Also, Mr. Browning (who designed the 1911) designed the very similar 9mm Browning Hi Power a few years later. You might want to try a Hi Power (adopted by over 55 countries as a military arm, and still used all over the world), they are good solid guns. Being designed expressly in 9mm, and working the same way (Single action design), they fit literally everyone, actually fit some people a little better than the 1911A1.

It holds 13 rounds and the new ones run about $600. You can often find used ones cheaper. FN (Fabrique National) make some more concealable models too now I believe.

[Michael Zeleny]

John Moses Browning did not design the M1911 to be chopped and channeled. Were I interested in a compact 9x19mm sidearm, I would look for a more "modern" design. Being fond of classic, full-sized blue steel, I am very pleased to carry a SIG P210. A slim handgun is easy to conceal, regardless of reasonable variations in barrel length.

Billy: Ronald Farber said his penis is twelve inches long. Do you think that's possible?
Bill: What Ronald Farber doesn't know is that it's not length, but width that matters.
-- Happiness

[Berg01]

Kimber Tactical Pro II 9mm

New for 2005, the Tactical Pro II 9mm combines the Custom Shop carry features of the Tactical Series with the light recoil of the 9mm cartridge. Other than retaining the traditional internal extractor, the 9mm version has all the features shared by the Tactical family including match grade barrel and chamber, 30 LPI checkering on front strap and under trigger guard, Premium Aluminum Trigger, extended and beveled magazine well, ambidextrous thumb safety, Meprolight three dot (green) night sights and lighter aluminum frame. Additionally, the 4-inch bull barrel is fitted directly to the slide and does not rely on a bushing. A matte black slide and matte gray anodized slide combine with black small parts for a striking appearance that does not reflect light. Suggested list price is $1,108.

[shooter58]

I have the Springrield Ultra Compact in 9mm and dearly love it. I have found it to function flawlessly and accurate far beyond what I can shoot and I don't shoot too bad. Buy it, you'll like it.

[Telemekhos]

That Kimber Tactical Pro sounds AWESOME, I wonder when i will see it in stores??? The springfield is amazing too, but i really dont want a stainless carry weap.

thanks,
-T-

[Berg01]

That Kimber Tactical Pro sounds AWESOME, I wonder when i will see it in stores???

I suggest you contact these guys by phone or email;

Sporting Arms Co. (http://www.sportingarms.com/)

[LynnKCircle]

I have a full-sized 5" barrel Taurus PT99 with an alloy frame, and a Kimber CDP Pro with a 4" barrel. I used to carry the Taurus in an IWB holster when I weighed under 200 pounds. Once I ballooned up to 240, though, it began cutting into my flag. Now, because it is thinner and has a shorter barrel, I find the Kimber far easier to carry concealed.

But here's the kicker. While the recoil is different in that the 9mm feels sharper but slightly weaker and the .45 feels heavier but somehow blunter, the truth is that neither one is really more uncomfortable than the other. Neither one has recoil which gets in the way of shooting accurately when used with similar ammunition. The 9mm with +P+ ammo is worse than the .45 with normal ammo. There are some hot defensive rounds with 230 HP bullets in .45 that I find painful to shoot for extended periods of times, but the same is true of 9mm +P+.

My real point is that don't let the recoil be the deciding factor. Similar ammo in similar guns will be similarly comfortable or uncomfortable in my experience. Instead, go with what you shoot best with, and that is always an individual proposition.

[nemesis]

The springfield is amazing too, but i really dont want a stainless carry weap.

If it's really a carry gun, a full time carry gun, and not a gun that gets carried Saturday afternoon and Tuesday night after work; it's going to be exposed to human perspiration. While you may not prefer the appearance of a stainless carry gun, you will appreciate the resistance to corrosion after you start rusting your blued gun. Additionally, the appearance shouldn't matter because it won't be visible.

I prefer blued guns and am fond of my Kimber but I carry, full time, a stainless Springfield Ultra Compact.

[tpdtom]

T....I'm not sure if you really want a .45 or another 9mm , maybe a thinner and more concealable 9mm ?

If you wanted to stay with a 9 , and go to a thinner , extremely high quality piece , ideal for CCW for a number of reasons , look at an H&K P7M8 . They are in stock at Target Sports on Woodward albeit the price is a little high . They are utterly reliable , very concealable , arguably the finest 9mm extant, and VERY accurate .

There are a few 9mm 1911s that have been made , but I think you lose the advantage of a 1911 and the .45s virtues . Almost anyone with a little practice can handle a .45 , and there are a myriad of good choices . A 4 1/4" LWT Commander has been one of the best choices for decades and still is , as are the many clones like Kimber Pro Carry , STI , Les Baer Stinger , Ed Brown Kobra Carry and so on . I have a 3" Kimber Ultra CDP Series 1 which has been utterly reliable for me , even though many say that 3" 1911s won't run . There are 3 1/2" Colt Officers Models too on the used market .

Half the fun is in the discovery . Rent some guns ! Have fun . Take a class and get the instructors advice . Shoot 'em till one kinda grabs ya...Tom

[Range Ninja]

Heck you live in Michigan - you could conceal a whole IPSC open rig set up.:D Unlike myself here in Houston.:( Well to get back on topic, I'd say go with a Commander sized 1911 over the Micro and Ultra sized guns you're looking into

[Shane333]

Look at the Star BM. It has a frame and look similar to a commander sized 1911, but is chambered in 9mm.

[OF]

I would steer clear from 1911-pattern guns in non-1911 patterns. It's at it's best in the original 5" .45ACP.

I'd see if you can't get a 1911 single-stack to try out for a day or two - maybe from a friend? I find they carry like buttah. :)

If your set on a 9mm, how about a HiPower?

- Gabe

[michiganfan]

I know its no compact but have you thought of a Browning Hi Power. Beautiful work of art and 17 rounds of 9.

[Jax]

Telemekhos -

If you haven't tried a P7 yet - I'd strongly recommend you do so.

It does have second strike capability - even though it is a striker fired pistol.

The P7 goes from perfectly safe to deadly faster than any other handgun I own. It also goes back to perfectly safe just as fast.

It is one of the most accurate handguns I own.

If you get the PSP model, with the European-style magazine release, it's very slim.

For more detail, check out the P7 Pro / Con (http://www.parkcitiestactical.com/pct_faq.htm#9).

For someone who is looking for a 9mm platform and who is not that concerned about cost - the P7 might be just up your alley.

Check out the Cult of the P7 (http://www.parkcitiestactical.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi).

Jax

[Tango Sierra]

Here is a Kimber Pro Tactical 9mm.

http://www.gilbertsguns.com/store/products/category11/1293.html?ck_SID=7ce7d9b5ae41c5e1774c589ac6f

[Telemekhos]

Thanks a lot for the help....

Ive narrowed it down now...

1. The HK P7 (seems a lot of people love this gun).
2. The New Kimber Tactical Pro II 9mm
3. I just found a 1911 w/Beavertail/Compact, etc chambered in a 9mm. Its the STI LS9. Here is a link, please tell me your thoughts on STI and this gun if possible.. http://www.shootersconnection.com/guns/ls.html


Thanks,
-T-

[9mmepiphany]

of the last ones you've listed, my personal favorite is the hk p7 (in PSP flavor)...

but might i second the recommendation of the Star 9mm (i personally prefer the BKM...LW version of the BM).

i find the 1911 platform a bit large of the 9mm round. the Star differs from the colt (externally) with it's spur hammer and pivoted trigger. what you gain is a platform properly sized for the round while retaining the basic proportions and the condition 1 carry of the 1911

[Majic]

While you may not prefer the appearance of a stainless carry gun, you will appreciate the resistance to corrosion after you start rusting your blued gun.
Long before the stainless steel alloy was used in handguns, the vast majority were blued. If rusting was so prevalent like some say it is then where are all those rusted hunks of metal? With a little care a blued handgun can be carried by several generations of shooters. It may show very little bluing after many many years of use, but it doesn't rust unless you neglect it.
There are still a lot of pistols and revolvers made as far back as the 1930s or more still riding in pockets today.

[Tango Sierra]

The STI LS9 is smaller and thinner than the traditional 1911. The grip is also shorter. The Kimber Tactical Pro 9mm is the same as a Commander aluminum frame style 1911 45 except for caliber.

[incursion]

P7m8

[Super Trucker]

If you go with the Kimber, call a business in Westland called Firearm Exchange.
When I was looking for a CDP he was the cheapest in SE MI. by about $50.00

[J.M.]

For purley selfish reasons I think the .45 is worth checking out further - http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=107956

Your fellow Michigander - JM.