[P12]

I know this is not firearms related. Although the more money the gov takes is less for ammo and toys.
Thought some of you might want to know about this.

HTML Version of This Message for Forwarding
http://www.thelibertycommittee.org/update02.26.03.htm


February 26, 2003

Should illegal immigrants receive Social Security benefits? Yes, according to many
politicians, bureaucrats, and special interest groups in Washington. They aren't
just saying yes, however, they are working quietly to get their way with this
so-called "totalization" program.

"Social Security must not become a global welfare system. This outrageous proposal
is projected to cost the already fragile Social Security system more than one
billion dollars annually! Social Security was designed to provide retirement income
for American citizens who worked in the United States. Paying benefits to
noncitizens is an insult to millions of Americans who pay into Social Security their
entire lives, pledge their loyalty to America as citizens, yet now face the
possibility of a bankrupt system when they retire."
--Congressman Ron Paul, Feb. 6, 2003

"If top officials at the State Department and Social Security Administration have
their way, up to $345 billion -- or more -- could be siphoned from the Social
Security 'trust fund' over the next couple of decades, mostly to pay benefits to
Mexican citizens who worked illegally in the United States."
--Joel Mowbray, The Washington Times, Jan. 9, 2003

"Mexican President Vincente Fox has been pushing President Bush to sign a Social
Security agreement with Mexico as something of a consolation prize to make up for
Bush's failure to pursue promised immigration reform, according to Latino lobbyists
close to the Fox administration."
--Jonathan Weisman, The Washington Post, Dec. 19, 2002

"...U.S. taxpayers should say 'no' to Mexico's attempt to shift its social welfare
burdens onto the U.S. taxpayer."
--Phyllis Schlafly, Jan. 15, 2003

"Now is the time for grassroots conservatives to sound the alarm about this plan,
when pressure can still be applied to stop it."
--Paul Weyrich, Feb. 26, 2003

We must apply pressure now. Urge your U.S. representative to cosponsor H.R. 489 -
The Social Security for American Citizens Only Act. Send a message today. Go to
http://capwiz.com/liberty/issues/bills/?bill=1518616

Kent Snyder
The Liberty Committee
http://www.thelibertycommittee.org

To make a donation, go to
http://www.thelibertycommittee.org/donate.htm

==============================================

[Blackhawk]

No.

[foghornl]

In one word........

NO !

:fire::fire: :fire: :fire:

[TimH]

Ditto Blackhawk

[Schuey2002]

I gotta' go with Blackhawk on this one... No way!!:banghead:

[critter]

Illegals? NO nor any other benefits provided by the US constitution or social programs! IF they are owed those benefits, then anybody else in any other country is too! Again, NO!

(What part of 'NO' don't they understand?)

[AZTOY]

NO :cuss: :cuss: :fire:


MAIL SENT!:fire:

[Delmar]

Sure is nice to have these fools in DC tell us about all the non-Americans we have to support.:rolleyes: NO

[hops]

No. I think we need a Fox hunt.

[bbrins]

NO BLEEPING WAY!!!!! Just the idea is insulting, I will probably never see a dime of my Social Security and they want to give it to some non-taxpaying illegal immigrant!?!? I say we tell el presidente (sp?) Vincente Fox to go relieve himself up a rope.


:cuss: :fire:

[DeltaElite]

No and deport them immediately.

[NewShooter78]

Good lord, NO! I'm sick of seing illegals getting more of my money than I ever will from the gov. The should tell Fox to go sit and spin. :cuss: :fire: :banghead:

[CZ-75]

NO!

[3 gun]

NO!! And they shouldn't be voting either.

[Greg L]

Guess I'll go with the flow and vote NO also.

(of course that would have been my answer too if I was the first to respond :D )

Greg

[wingman]

Lets see, free medical, free school, free
lunch program, free dental in some
states, (could this be the reason my
taxes are so high) :barf:

[TheOtherOne]

Well, after carefully considering the responses I'm going to have to go with a resounding "Yes".... errr I mean, No :D

[Monkeyleg]

It's bad enough that the government takes eight cents out of every dollar I make (which makes saving for retirement much more difficult) and throws it at pork barrel projects. And SS's annual return is an abysmal 1.2%.

Now they want to dilute the fund by giving money to non-citizens?

Open your windows right now and you'll hear my answer to the question.


NNNNNNNOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[UnknownSailor]

NO

[Kevlarman]

Of course not!
:fire:

[P95Carry]

NO!

There are enough things bleeding the coffers dry without this.:fire: :fire: :fire: :rolleyes:

[labgrade]

double tap ...

[labgrade]

Not only should illegals NOT receive any bennies, neither should we, the "born heres," unless that we should get what our own Congress-Critters get - their own up-scale benny-fits.

Sauce for the goose.

Why is it that the Congress-Critters get a subsidized retrirement/health-care system while the rest of us actually have to pay for it?

If it's good enough for them, I say it's good enough for us.

Sadly, ther's not enough (cough) $s in the budget for the "rest of us."

Yeah right = "classless society." Uh-huh.

Saw a bumper sticker:

"You think health care is expensive now? Wait till it's free."

Same-same for so much of our "stuff."

Lookit.

I'm not for any freebees anywhere. Not what we're founded on.

While we're at knockin' down the "no illegals"-stuff, we oughta knock down the extras the .Guv-folk get too.

Wipe the slate clean ....

[rock jock]

Any politician who votes for such a thing should be tried, convicted, and punished for treason.

[Intune]

Heard today o the G Gordon show that WA is trying to push through a bill that will allow ILLEGAL aliens to attend state college at the resident rate. That's right, not get deported when they find you but enjoy paying a cheaper rate than I could send my CITIZEN child for. They said that a few states, TX, CA and one other that I can't recall, already allow this horsepucky. Close the darn borders and start cleaning house! :fire:

[BogBabe]

I have to take a different approach here and say, "I'm all for it" -- in the belief that doing so will speed up the complete collapse and abolishment of the Socialist Insecurity system.

Let's give ALL the SS money away to the illegal aliens, and then liberate Americans by cancelling this evil pyramid scheme forever.

[sctman800]

I think it is sad the question is even being asked!!!!!!

[Zander]

No. I see no logical reason for rewarding illegal aliens who have intentionally broken our laws.

I don't care what Vicente thinks [?] ...

[longeyes]

Reportedly the burrocrats want to count time worked in Mexico along with time worked here toward the level of benefits. That means just about everyone would get the maximum pay-out. This would cost the American taxpayer a bloody fortune per year, not to mention further legitimizing illegality.

But expect not only a big chunk of Congress but GWB to back it. I am waiting for the next illegal alien amnesty bill to be pushed through, probably as a "reward" for Fox's vote in the U.N.

You have to wonder when the American taxpayer is going to wake up and really say, so that the pols can hear, ENOUGH!!! Of course I tend to believe that even if the people say no, "they" will find a way to over-rule us. In the end this struggle will be decided as all the others have been.

[Marko Kloos]

I don't think that anyone is entitled to take money out of their neighbor's pocket, regardless of their citizenship status.

Social Security is a laughable Ponzi scheme which will collapse in the next 20 years. It is the Sacred Cow in Washington...everybody knows that it has no chance of surviving, and yet nobody says so because it would cost the doomsayer the votes of the population segment currently receiving Social Security checks.

[schild]

If I recall correctly Mexico wants any ILLEGAL that CLAIMS to have worked in the U.S. using a fake SS number to be eligible for SS benefits. Anyone want to guess how many Mexican will claim to have worked in the U.S.?
Mexico is a leach on our butt!

www.americanpatrol.com
www.getusout.org

[wingman]

But expect not only a big chunk of Congress but GWB to back it. I am waiting for the next illegal alien amnesty bill to be pushed through, probably as a "reward" for Fox's vote in the U.N."


You got it.!!!It would seem some in this
country want to have a poorly educated,
easily controlled, voter/worker.

[Phyphor]

Can I get a fat HELL NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[IRONFIST]

My ancestors came here from a country where they had little chance for success and freedom and they saw that America was the answer to their prayers.... HOWEVER.... They did it legally and above board and didn't sneak across some border. They waited so long and endured so much to come here. While they still loved their mother country, they were proudest that they were now citizens of THIS country. They learned to speak english by trial and error and didn't protest when their children were taught english in the schools. My ancestors worked 2 and sometimes 3 jobs to make ends meet and to purchase a home or business of their own without goverment hand-outs or giveaways. They were proud and knew the difference between right and wrong. They didn't try to impose their cultural beliefs on to the citizens who were here before them, rather they bought into American culture wholeheartedly. I am proud of my family, the family that took a chance and made the hard trip to America to eventually give me and my parents the honor of being born here. My ancestors would spit on the majority of these illelgal aliens and tell them to do the right thing and go back to their true homes. Just because you want a decent job, it doesn't mean you should be an automatic citizen as soon as you step across the border line. The American dream doesn't work that way. If you want to emigrate here you should have to work for it as hard as my family and others have had to and do it the right way. No shortcuts, no skiping the line. We love our country as it is and we don't want it turned into where you just came from! :fire: :fire: :fire: :fire: :fire:


Michael in Oregon

[CZ-75]

Social Security is a laughable Ponzi scheme which will collapse in the next 20 years. It is the Sacred Cow in Washington...everybody knows that it has no chance of surviving, and yet nobody says so because it would cost the doomsayer the votes of the population segment currently receiving Social Security checks.


As long as they're stealing it from me, I want what isn't used to pad the budget to go to an actual, honest-to-god American citizen.

I fully expect to get pennies on the dollar by the time I become eligible for Socialist Security.

They should've taken a page from Bismarck and made the eligibility threshhold such that most persons are dead before they can collect.

[jmbg29]

NO!:cuss: :cuss: :cuss: :fire: :fire: :fire:

[4570Rick]

Illegals should get;

NO SSA

NO SSI

NO SSD

NO DRIVERS LICENCE

NO VOTERS RIGHTS

NO FREE HEALTH CARE

NO FREE EDUCATION

NO FOOD STAMPS

NO UTILITY DISCOUNTS

NO BANK ACCOUNTS

If you're an illegal, you're a CRIMINAL AND YOU HAVE NO RIGHTS :cuss: :cuss: :fire: :fire:

[Waitone]

Alright people! Let's get a little consistency here.

We already allow illegals drivers licenses (establishes residency).

We already give them free medical care. Hospitals on the southern border are oing bankrupt because of the incredible burden of illegals walking in, getting treatment and walking out.

We already give them welfare payments.

We already give them bogus ID cards which allow them to set up bank accounts.

We already educate their kids. We bring their sick kids into the country, give them preferencial placement on transplant lists TWICE. Then we supply them lawyers at no charge in order to sue the hospital that twice gave them a free organ transplant.

Now you people want to deny them a safe and secure retirement!

Consistency people. Think consistency.

Since it is evident the ruling class does not see a problem, I suggest we deputize all LEGAL aliens and give them a bounty of $500 for each one they haul in. Somehow or somewhere there has to be a payoff for playing the game by the rules.

Workplace enforcement is the answer.

[Baba Louie]

Tongue in Cheek

Why not... we subsidize "Free Elections In Guatemala", "the entire Israeli military" (well alot of it anyway) and "studies of bovine methane effects on the environment"... whats a few more billion dollars on helping out "Wanita Consuela/Abdul Delmar" and their pack of kids?

I mean, we ARE one of, if not, THE, richest nation(s) on earth, regularly creating wealth from nothing... as it were. So whats a few more pennies down the well?

Sides that, these people would then vote for the Democrat of their choice, right?

Adios

[Pappy John]

SURE!!!! In fact why stop at our borders....they're just an imaginary line in the dirt anyway. Lets just give benefits to everyone worldwide...after all... they're all "potential" illegal aliens just in need of a plane ticket, so they deserve our Social Security benefits too.

What kind of minds think this stuff up?

[hammer4nc]

Anyone care to further discuss the strategy put forward by bog babe? I think it may be called the hegelian dialectic... in essence, favoring a bad option in the short-term (ss benefits for illegals), because it will hasten the collapse of the corrupt system, hopefully to be sooner replaced by something better.

Tactic used by Hitler (burn reichstag, blame it on enemies -->consolidate power). The more cynical among have charged similar tactics being used by GW Bush (war for control of oil).

Furthermore, is this tactic appropriate for the gun control debate? Pro-gunners have always played it straight, that is resisting each and every gun control measure that is proposed. End result has been the gradual loss of rights (boiled frog analogy). What if pro-gunners favored the most draconian proposal, knowing it would lead to system breakdown, and perhaps sooner replacement by a better paradigm?

Musings on a rainy day. Worthy of its own thread perhaps?

[Tamara]

Heh.

I don't think anybody should receive the proceeds of government thef... er, social security benefits; legal or illegal, alien or citizen. :p

[P12]

Anyone care to further discuss the strategy put forward by bog babe? I can't trust the system would improve. I don't trust who would be in power to correct it, short of an all out revolution.

I'd rather fight the good fight now. Personally I think we are making progress. The way the liberal democrats are acting only re-inforces this fact.

[Bottom Gun]

Send them ALL back where they came from and increase the benefits to Americans currently drawing SS and living on cat food.

We need to take care of our own people.

[Monkeyleg]

Tamara: "I don't think anybody should receive the proceeds of government thef... er, social security benefits; legal or illegal, alien or citizen."

Absolutely right. Just get the government to give me back the $125,000 I've paid in SS over the last 30-some years and I won't press charges for theft.

[Shalako]

[liberal do-gooderthink] The whole concept of borders is out dated. In this new era, we the peoples of the world, are all in it together. Why lie awake at night thinking about the poor undernourished children while America hoards all the wealth? Tear down the borders and let the whole world reap the bounty of resources we have stolen from others. We are a spoiled nation and it is time to face the responsibility to treat everyone as an equal. Its unfair to ask others to toil for success and achievement, when it can so easily be handed out by the government. [/liberal do-gooderthink]

God, it hurts my brain to think this stuff up. Ouch. Know thy enemy and all, but :barf:.



ps. NO!

[labgrade]

"You have to wonder when the American taxpayer is going to wake up and really say, so that the pols can hear, ENOUGH!!! Of course I tend to believe that even if the people say no, "they" will find a way to over-rule us. In the end this struggle will be decided as all the others have been."

We only get to vote every two years & nothing we say will have any effect, sadly, & nothing would come of it if voted "nay!"

The course is set & you will pay for all of "them" - no matter what "they" might be.

Your betters have decided.

Thanks, America - while it lasted.

(sigh)

[Safety First]

I'm not in favor ob bankrupting the system that is suppose to help me with my retirement that I paid into for 40 some years by giving to someone who crossed the border illegally for free hand-out..It's not a government hand-out it's your money and mine..not a government slush-fund to just give away to those who have not contributed:fire:

[Dorrin79]

2 thoughts

1) Social Security Sucks. It's a ridiculous Ponzi scheme that would be illegal in the private sector, and it's doomed to failure, as a bonus. It makes me mad enough to kick a cat (and I like cats!) when I think about the fact that the money I am currently being forced to pay out for my grandparents' generation could fund my retirement in style, if I were allowed to invest it for myself. See, I'm young (23) and every 1000 dollars I invest now translates to something like 30K when I hit 65...

2) You can at least make a case that the (non-fraudulent) current recipients of SS at least paid in their share. They made a deal with the state, and have a reasonable expectation that the state honor said deal. Illegal immigrants did not pay their fair share, they did not make a deal with the government, and the government has no obligation, nor even the discretion, to include them.

In summary, Social Security is immoral theft. Giving Social Securitiy benefits to illegals is... umm.. Doubly Immoral Theft?

ya'll know what I'm trying to say here....

[Guy B. Meredith]

Illegal aliens are criminals. Just ask my Aussie wife who had to fight to get over here. Criminals get jail time, not welfare and rewards.

Despite the current state of the stock market, things like this make Bush's plan to let us handle our own Social Security funds sound better and better.

[labgrade]

Dorrin79 has a decent enough handle on it.

If any private enterprise attempted a scheme such as social security, they would be prosecuted for fraud - a felony rap.

& this for our own - born-heres & citizens.

That illegals are allowed easy entrance as they are is a disgrace. That they are allowed any bennies whatsoever is doubly so.

Almost seems like there's some sort of "thing" to allow it .... hmmm & harumph.

& Guy. That B43 would actually allow us to "reap our own rewards of that proposed 2%" is such a stunning proposal to make me giddy. :rolleyes:

Coupla others while I'm fervious:

Why is it we can't get the same "plan" as any congress-critter has regards health care/retirement? Rhetorical, I know, but we hear all this yakking about how to improve the system, etc. blathering, yada. If they want to be truly monagamous about the whole thing, why not just dial us all into the same plan they get?

Yah! I know.

Too, saw a bumper sticker: "You think health care is expensive now? Wait till it's free."

[JMLV]

ILLEGAL'S DON'T DESERVE ANYTHING FROM US OR THE GOV'T. NO SCHOOL, NO WELFARE, NO SS, NO NOTHING BUT DEPORTATION! SECOND OFFENCE JUST TAKE THEM OUT TO THE DESERT AND HAVE THEM SHOT! THEY WON'T BE BACK THEN WILL THEY! GET ALL THE :banghead:
ILLEGALS OUT OF THE US - NOW BEFOUR ITS TOO LATE. :cuss:

[XLMiguel]

Hell NO!!!!

[dev_null]

Typical scab thinking. :barf:

-0-

[LostOneToo]

When did they change the meaning of "illegal"?????:cuss:

[clem]

This is what they are after:

http://www.mayorno.com/WhoIsMecha.html


She is helping, check her out:

http://www.co.pima.az.us/legaldef/ld.html

http://www.americanpatrol.com/REFERENCE/derechoshumanos.html


He is helping, check him out:

http://www.americanpatrol.com/REFERENCE/Grijalva-Raul.html

http://www.americanpatrol.com/MECHA/MEChAindex.html


So, what do you think?

NO! Vote for me.

[seeker_two]

:cuss: NO!!!

In fact, I think a pretty good use of "Homeland Security" funds would be to offer bounties to LEO's & private citizens for (live) captured illegals. Would kill two birds (illegals & unemployment) w/ one stone...:evil:

[Gordon]

The worst part of this is: You don't pay your social security tax for you or your employees or your "self employment" tax and you go to jail/have everything you own seized! This is forced extortion to give to fellonious foriegn invaders and revolutions have been fought over much less.If this happens when us old people who will be cheated when our turn comes to cash in should not be afraid to step up to the plate and die with dignity until the silent majority(us) throw the gubbamint bums out!:fire: :cuss: :banghead: :evil: :fire:

[Intune]

A bounty on illegals! Can you hear the howls now?!! I, being a sick puppy, LOVE it! How long would it be till somebody compares massive deportation to rounding up the Jews?

[CZ-75]

How long would it be till somebody compares massive deportation to rounding up the Jews?


They already do it for chickens. :rolleyes:


Only thing is, is sending them back where they came from as bad as a gas chamber? Doubtful.

[seeker_two]

Only thing is, is sending them back where they came from as bad as a gas chamber?

One word.....frijoles...:what:

(Sorry. You can ban me now...:o )

[Intune]

LMAO! It would be an exhausting bus ride ;)