Effectiveness of a Taser


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10-Ring
February 26, 2003, 04:04 PM
I have a thread going on their legalities, but how effective are they? through clothes, etc? The manufacturer states 100% take down, how accurate is that? How effective on multiple targets?

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Don Gwinn
February 26, 2003, 05:42 PM
I think the first thing the knowledgeable people are going to need to know will be the make and model of your taser. . . .

kannonfyre
February 26, 2003, 08:04 PM
10 ring, I hope you don't mind if I ask a question of my own as it is related to the thread at hand.

Anyone out there own stun guns? How effective are they under street conditions? Some guns claim to have phase induction technology. Does this really make them better than other stun guns?

I am not comtemplating a taser myself because stun guns are illegal locally and I do not want to leave fingerprints behind when I detach the probes from the taser. However, a friend of mine once used his taser on a mugger whilst on vacation. According to him, he misjusdged the distance and the probes missed. When the thug closed in, he grabbed the goblin, stabbed the taser handle into the goblins kidneys and triggered the voltage. It took a few moments before the perp went down.

10-Ring
February 26, 2003, 10:43 PM
I'm not sure make or model. I will assume it will be of recent construction since I'll be buying new in the near future...any recommendations as to which make or model?

Kevlarman
February 27, 2003, 12:32 AM
I own a stungun, and thank goodness I didn't have to use it on anyone in a serious situation.

The one I have is the Nova XR-5000, which fortunately, is an American-made unit and was the standard police stungun back in the day. It is able to withstand drops and other abuse which would instantly kill those Chinese knockoffs. Voltage is supposed to be 80,000 volts, but I have no way if measuring it. Stunning myself and willing participants demonstrates that the stungun can in fact drop someone, but it does take a few seconds of convulsing before you actually fall down. And, you almost immediately are able to get up and continue fighting; there are no after-effects ilke there is with pepper spray.

The only stunguns I know with "phase induction technology" are teh Talon models. I had one. I dropped it, and it stopped working.
Didn't seem to work as well as the Nova when it was working, either.

Stunguns are useful for "stunning" a victim temporarily. That gives you time to either get out a better weapon or get the heck out of Dodge. Don't count on it to keep anyone down for any length of time.

Aikibiker
February 27, 2003, 12:45 AM
Darn it, darn it, darn it.

I had a really nice reply typed up but I somehow lost it.

Short version follows:

M-26 advanced taser- Looks like a Glock and has been mistaken for such, police like them because they work. They are employed to knock the perp down while 5 other officers jump on him and put on handcuffs. Not available to civilians because the manufacturer won't sell them to peasants.

M-24 and M-18- Made by the same people that make the M-26. Much less effective, but available to civilians. These are best employed to knock the bad-guy down while your mall-ninja tactical team jumps on them and applies either plastic riot cuffs or tactical duct tape.

Flea-market handheld stunguns and the Myotron- Fun for parties, feels like having a rubberband snapped against your skin repeatedly. May leave red-marks. Impress your friends and prospective bed partners with how tough you are by zapping your self, but don't use for serious occasions.

I wish I hadn't lost the original version. It was much better and had proper grammar. My apologies to the board.

kannonfyre
February 27, 2003, 01:12 AM
So in othern words handheld stunguns are not serious weapons and the alleged effectiveness of the myotron is actually hogwash?

Guess I should stick to blunt force tools then.....

Aikibiker
February 27, 2003, 01:29 AM
Got it in one Kannonfyre.

Don't discount bladed or projectile weapons.

All though it is rather difficult to argue with a brick to the skull. That tends to induce would be muggers into a trancelike state to meditate on their wrong-doings and how best to attain nirvana, that or a coma.

I could also wax poetic on the often overlooked utility of the thrown rock for self defense applications.

Blackjacks, slungshots (note: not slingshots), billyclubs, and saps are pretty cool too.

I am reserving judgment on ASP batons however, they seem to rely to much on hitting pinpoint moving targets under an adrenaline dump for my peace of mind. Also, I keep seeing cops whack people with them to no effect.

kannonfyre
February 27, 2003, 01:37 AM
Last question before I shut my yap on this thread.......

If voltage weapons are not really effective then why do they seem to sell so well for self defense applications?

:scrutiny: Guess I should turn down my god-sister's offer to sell me her talon 250 then.

Aikibiker
February 27, 2003, 02:06 AM
Because people tend to believe what they see and hear on TV and in the movies. For some strange reason when the moving pictures come on and the magic voice comes out of a box people for some reason shut off their BS detectors.

Same seems to happen on the internet as well so take everything I type with a grain of salt too. After all I am just some random yahoo with an internet connection.

Go ahead and buy her little toy if it isn't going to break your budget. Like I said it is great at parties and it never hurts to build a little interfamily good will. Besides it is better that you have it knowing not to use it then her depending on the silly thing if somebody attacks her. Heck, if someone breaks into her house and she runs for a kitchen knife instead of the super zapper you bought from her maybe you will indirectly have saved her life.

And lets not forget the fact that you can use the thing to impress girls with how manly you are.

D.W. Drang
February 27, 2003, 12:15 PM
Stun Guns by Julus Chang

www.radix.net/~jchang/stunupdate.html

Based on my personal experience with stun guns and my observations of about 40 others (male, female, old, young, slim, fat, muscular), I don't believe that stun guns are worthwhile for self-defense. Quite often, students stated that if they were a criminal mugging someone defending themselves with a stun gun, they would simply get enraged if they got jabbed. It certainly wouldn't stop them. The exception seems to be the M26 Taser, although so far as I can tell neither he nor anyone he knows tested the M18 or M24 Tasers personally...
There have also been several reports in the last year or so in which someone who was "tased", so to speak, died.

Hand_Rifle_Guy
March 8, 2003, 12:37 PM
As the local volunteer, I did a bit of testing with an over-the-counter stungun of the 500,000-volt persuasion. After an initial first impression of severity, I subsequently changed my mind, and now I think they're darn worthless.

Mind you, this is not Tasers we're talking here, this is stunguns. Not quite the same animal.

Read all about it here (http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=120749), and feel free to laugh out loud, as that's why I volunteered. Someone had to, I suppose! ;)

Tamara
March 8, 2003, 12:58 PM
I had a friend who'd take those umptyzillion volt stun batons and let you poke him with them. On the bare skin. Of his chest. He'd converse with you through gritted teeth and spasming jaw muscles while you were zapping him, too.

Some folks don't seem to get bothered much by anything this side of a downed power line.

Some folks aren't phased too much by OC or Mace.

I've yet to meet anyone who's bulletproof, however.

OC and stunguns have their place, but are best utilized when there's something else to back them up.

El Tejon
March 8, 2003, 01:33 PM
From the files of El Tejon, super cool LEO dude:

The transport deputy brought a guy into Super 3 one day for a hearing. He had been up in sunny, scenic Westville state prison (near Oprah's house on the water). He came into court in DOC yellow and a stun belt. O.K., first time actually saw one of those.

At some point in the proceedings he didn't like the mean statements that the eeevil young (but ruggedly handsome) prosecutor was making. He jumped up and overturned counsel table and generally caused a ruckus.

As he was howling, the transport officer hit him with the remote. "That has no impact upon me as I am a god." The armed bailiff hit hit just above the belt with his own stun gun from his blind side. No impact.

After much rolling around the floor, yelling, cursing and ruggedly handsome young prosecutor being run over by the court reporter who ran through the melee (it was like the old Police Squad shootout scene where people ran between the shooters), order was restored and the prosecution somehow prevailed.

Don't trust the silly toys. 10, don't forget almost all LE sales are based on kickbacks and backrooming. Po-po may carry them as ordered, but rarely trust them (e.g. Rodney King).

Technology may someday give us what is desired, but until then, no thanks.

Psssniper
March 8, 2003, 09:21 PM
I could tell you the story of an LE friend who was one of a handfull of guys at a national training thing where there also happened to be a preview of the latest and greatest electric zapper thingy. My friend true to his form, voluntered to be the victim of this whizbang shocker, "Y'all just come at me" was the instruction of the guy with the zapper. Well my buddy went at him, got zapped, kept going and then decked the guy. Now most of us would call it a day but not Mr. Zapper. "Let's try that again"
After the second time of gettin his A** whoooped Mr Zapper did finally call it a day and my friend had a good 'ol time at the rest of the seminar. Now I'm sure these things work on some people,
but do you want to guess who they work on and who they dont?

twoblink
March 10, 2003, 02:55 AM
I'm a big Myotron fan after I found out how they work. They are not tazers, or stun guns.. They are much more effective..

Tazers don't really work that well, I've seen people get tazered, and I've been "spiked" a few times, I didn't like it, but in life or death situations, wouldn't stop me...

kannonfyre
March 10, 2003, 03:20 AM
Greetings TwoBlink,

I presume that you own a Myotron. (I have one in my sockdrawer.) The issue at hand is that there have been many people who diss the myotron's effectiveness and very few people who praise the thing. As such, I have been less willing to carry the myotron of late.

Where does your proof of the myotron's effectiveness come from? (I am loathe to accept the evidence provided by their promotional video.)

Tamara
March 10, 2003, 07:41 AM
(I am loathe to accept the evidence provided by their promotional video.)

That's good, because twoblink sure isn't. ;)

Byron Quick
March 10, 2003, 09:25 AM
I would doubt the 100% takedown claim of the modern taser.

A number of years ago, a would be kidnapper/rapist, used one on a local lady. The spike hit a button on her blouse. She was not incapacitated.

Would the new model fail if the probe didn't reach the skin? Will it go through belt buckles, pocket note books, buttons and such?

Joe Demko
March 10, 2003, 09:41 AM
I've been pepper sprayed and zapped, though never tased. Pepper spray and stunguns cause some discomfort, but neither was what I would consider effective in a decisive way. I believe I would much prefer a gun.

SDC
March 10, 2003, 10:20 AM
Kinda/sorta related: if any of you have seen this "Jackass" series from MTV, one of the main characters recently volunteered to be a test subject for 3 non-lethal weapons; OC spray, a handheld stun gun, and a Taser. All three of these things took him out fairly quickly, and he seemed to be completely incapacitated under the influence of the Taser (at least while the juice was on; bare skin, with the probes completely implanted), but afterwards, he said the absolute worst was the OC spray. "Gonorrhea of the eyeballs" was his quaint way of describing the sensation :)

Kevlarman
March 10, 2003, 02:09 PM
Yeah, I saw that episode. Wasn't Knoxville pretending to be some sort of hippie protestor when they hit him with the taser?

Quartus
March 10, 2003, 05:54 PM
Hmmm. I haven't looked into Myotron's before, so this thread got me looking. From their web site I gleaned the following tidbits:

The authors would have done well to research their subject a bit more prior to publishing that erroneous assumption...


True enough - one should do the research before publishing information. So then they come up with this:


Within the human brain, chemical reactions occur and generate nanovolt (fraction of a volt) electrical currents,


Nope. Sorry, folks, you should have done your homework. Electrical current is measured in amperes (amps for short), not volts. Oh, and a nanovolt would be a billionth of a volt. Hmmm, yeah, I guess that could be described as a "fraction" of a volt. :rolleyes:

Well, I was going to go through their article on How Myotrons Work (http://www.myotron.net/how_myotrons_work.htm) and point out some of the, uh, questionable statements, but that piece is so full of baloney that I'd have to spend all day on it! It's pure gun store commando writing!


Based on their own information, I wouldn't spend a dime on one of those things. Of course, that doesn't mean the product is garbage - it just might be marketing idiots doing the web site. If anyone has reliable information on its effectiveness, I'm sure we'd all be interested.


As for Tasers, etc., it's very true that individuals have very different responses, and that is dependent on body chemistry. Being "tough" has nothing to do with it. Back in my elementary school and jr. high days, I used to enjoy going to Disneyland and showing up the high school jocks on the arcade shocker type games. Some big football players would be showing off for their girlfriends, groaning and contorting and holding on almost until the very end. Oh, weren't they tough! And then this skinny kid would come along and run the thing to its highest level without even twitching. :neener:

Yes, I was holding on tightly. I just don't conduct very well. :D

Maybe that's why I wound up pushing electrons around for a living. :scrutiny:

gryphon
March 10, 2003, 07:07 PM
They did a who less lethal weapons thing on the MTV show Jackass, and Mr. Knoxville didn't seem to take to the Taser or the stun gun very well.

The taser took him down immediately, and the one they had still had juice to blast him a couple more times. They needed to use pliers to get the tines out of his chest.

I know it's not the most scientific evaluation, but there you go.

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