[flatrock]

What's the reason that the 8 round mags don't appear to be available in the US?

Is there some sort of import restriction?
Is it legal to use one of the mags if you can get one?
What law, or regulation governs these mags?

[Rogue2]

You can get them here legally, it's just that no one is importing them in any quantity. They pop up on ebay pretty often. Heres a link to a U.K. site that sells 'em. They will ship to the U.S. and are great to do business with from what I hear.

http://www.rusmilitary.com/html/c-deact_magazines.htm

For more Saiga info, including where to buy mags, check forum.saiga-12.com

[Tomac]

It's my understanding that EAA refuses to import the 8rd mags because inserting one in a stock (unaltered) Saiga-12 would be illegal. You have to first substitute the requisite number of US parts (4 if you add pistol grip, 5 if your Saiga-12 has the removable factory chokes) to legally use the 8rd mag in a Saiga-12. AFAIK there's no import restrictions or Federal legal issues regarding ownership. The few overseas vendors that I'm aware of currently want in excess of $80 per mag for the 8rdrs.
Tomac

[flatrock]

I sent EAA an email asking if they could legally import them and if they were legal to own. Here's the response I got back.

high caps for shotguns are not legal, they do not meet the sporting
purpose test

Thank you
Sharon Bell
CS Manager

He really didn't answer my question about if they are legal to own, but it looks like they don't import them because they apparently aren't for sporting. :(

[Cesiumsponge]

Don't bother with using logic on EAA. The entire Saiga-12 forum has inquired and they never address directly, only give out a general "its illegal" reply. They won't consider importing 8-round magazines for those of us who have legally turned sportser Saiga-12's into domestic ones which are legally able to accept 8-rounders.

[OpenRoad]

It's hard to believe that nobody out there imports them for a reasonable price. There's obviously a market out there. I'm gonna have to check into this.

[flatrock]

Do they import the high caps mags for police use? If they do, and they aren't illegal for civilian use, I might be able to work around that issue. I have a friend who is a sherif's deputy. I wouldn't consider asking him to get me a mag if it's illegal, however if it's just EAA's policy that's the issue...

[TheOtherOne]

Since it's so hard to just get 8-round mags, I'm guessing the answer is no but is any company making the SAIGA-12K legal for import yet?

http://saiga12.com/Photo_Gallery.htm

That is exactly what I want for my next shotgun.

[Wakal]

http://www.dreadnaught-industries.com/images/file/guns/Saiga12_2.JPG

Just make your own. This is a compensated 12-round Saiga-12, just the ticket for 3-Gun :)




Alex

[Benjamin]

http://www.dreadnaught-industries.com/images/file/guns/Saiga12_2.JPG

Just make your own. This is a compensated 12-round Saiga-12, just the ticket for 3-Gun :)




Alex

Details??

[klover]

So would someone please answer where I can get 5 rounders for a good price?

Then I can build some 50 rds out of em as above :what:

"I know what you're thinking.........did he fire 49 or was it 50.......do you feel lucky, punk............ :)

[Correia]

Wakal, spill it, how did you do that?

[Benjamin]

Then I can build some 50 rds out of em as above :what:

"I know what you're thinking.........did he fire 49 or was it 50.......do you feel lucky, punk............ :)

Well, supposedly you can convert the 20 some odd round drum magazines from the USAS 12 shotgun to work in the Saiga. That would get you nearly halfway there.

[Cesiumsponge]

That would also almost guarantee the BATF will turn the Saiga-12 into a DD. Most people on the Saiga-12 forum have already voiced their opinions on not publicizing any attempts at making drum magazines for the Saiga-12 since we don't want to see it end up with a DD status.

[Third_Rail]

Too true. I hate that even though it's a semi the BATF can declare it a DD. I thought that they could only do that for rifles over 50 caliber, but apparently the only reason people can have shotguns bigger than 50 caliber is because they're letting them.

Technically, the BATF could declare 870s DDs, couldn't they? :cuss:

[KarbineKrazy]

k, how did you build the 12 rounders?

36 rounds of 12 gauge is all I'd ever need.

[Mesa Tactical]

Don't bother with using logic on EAA. The entire Saiga-12 forum has inquired and they never address directly, only give out a general "its illegal" reply. They won't consider importing 8-round magazines for those of us who have legally turned sportser Saiga-12's into domestic ones which are legally able to accept 8-rounders.

It appears they are taking a morally correct though frustrating position.

We have considered the same issues. We are looking at making stocks and grips for Benelli shotguns that would be illegal for a person to fit to his gun here in California (with a few exceptions). It is not illegal for us to sell the kits, but we have to ask ourselves whether we really want to see our customers go to jail. So we will probably restrict our sales to LEOs in California.

EEA knows that only a tiny fraction of their customers have 922(r) compliant shotguns. They don't want to see their customers going to jail.

[Mesa Tactical]

I wouldn't consider asking him to get me a mag if it's illegal, however if it's just EAA's policy that's the issue...

You just need to make your shotgun 922(r) compliant.

This can be easy or hard, depending on the model and the US manufactured aftermarket that exists for it. As an example, is it very difficult to make an SKS 922(r) compliant, which is surprising considering how many SKSes are out there in American civilian hands. Dunno about the Saiga.

[Cesiumsponge]

Saiga models are very easy to make 922r compliant. BATF has ruled that the 12C has 14 "parts" while the pistol-gripless model has 13 "parts". The replacement of the fire control group replaces 3 foreign parts and the buttstock and pistol grip (applicable to the 12C only) have US-made equivalents and reduces foreign part counts some more for an increased comfort margin.

[Fletchette]

Since this is post-election...

Why not try to get 922(r) undone?

And also why not get the DD edict undone. It wasn't a "law" after all (IIRC), it was a "re-interpretation" of a previous law.

If not now, when?

[Wakal]

Sorry, I was off shooting a match and followed on with a short TDY...

Those big Saiga mags were built using two five round magazines. Cut the top off one, the bottom off the other, tack them in place with some superglue, plastic weld the halves together, reshape the followers, coat with automotive "bumper repair" goop and sand smooth. Then hit 'em with some red metallic paint and...presto!

I'm working up a CAR-stock pistol-grip Saiga-20 for my wife now, but she just bought factory 10-round magazines.

I couldn't see hacking up my USAS-12 magazines (or drums), since...I have a USAS-12 too ;)




Alex

[Correia]

Wakal, what are you using for springs on those?

[Wakal]

That was the easist part. Factory, unmodified 5-round magazine springs.




Alex

[Correia]

Wow, that is surprising. I thought the five round spring would be way to short and weak.

How has your reliability been with your homemade 12s?

I've got three 8s that I've been using in 3gun. Some extra would be nice.

[Wakal]

My friend Fred has been running that one, while I'm still using the USAS-12. The red Saiga recoils less and is about half the weight of the big gun, and works just as well.

While the USAS only eats 3 3/4-dram or hotter shells, the Saiga eats whatever you put in it. Kinda handy, that.

The spring thing surprised us (Fred and I), too. We had anticipated stealing the springs out of my spare USAS mags, but there is enough "spring" in the five-rounders to function flawlessly.

Shooter error, now, that is another problem :banghead:




Alex

[Benjamin]

Wakal, you are my hero.

Thank you too much!

[carpettbaggerr]

high caps for shotguns are not legal, they do not meet the sporting
purpose test

Thank you
Sharon Bell
CS Manager



Does the Saiga itself meet the sporting purpose test?:confused: They'd be better off buying a few legislators, and getting 922[r] eliminated.

[TheOtherOne]

Does the Saiga itself meet the sporting purpose test?It must because in order to add a pistol grip you have to start putting U.S. made parts into it.

They'd be better off buying a few legislators, and getting 922[r] eliminated.It'll never happen. Too many domestic gun manufacturers are secretly happy about it.