November 5, 2004, 05:27 PM
I'm having a bit of an exchange with an individual at the VPC... I hope you'll join me in thanking her for the research and compilation they've done for our young people....



Then see:

http://cpltrainer.com/youthrecommendations.html (although my site is experiencing temporary difficulties).

Dear Kristen,

As a science teacher, I have a fairly good grasp of mathematics as well. Perhaps not as good as I'd like, but still functional.

To address your question, I suspect it would be a pretty incredible coincidence if you only receive perhaps 35 or 40 emails a day, but I rather suspect that the VPC receives many, many more email communications than that.

If you get 3,000 emails a day, for instance, I believe that the assumption might be that one percent of those might be fairly close in content.

In any case, I believe that you will receive many, many more emails thanking you for providing this list. It's a fine service to those concerned with the education of young firearms enthusiasts.

I'm not sure I see the depth of similarity in Sean's email to you and my own but I suppose since we have both taken the time to thank you for the efforts VPC has put forth in compiling this list, there is at least some small similarity. I see Sean would like links added for manufacturers and prices. I'd be happy to volunteer to provide that data to you for inclusion.

As to your question on the suits of armor, I have told you what I do with my days, or most of them. I am a high school science teacher devoted to the education of our young people. That doesn't involve armor, but I do have to dress up to some degree.

Kristen, I don't mean to criticize, but do you really think that it is entirely ethical to forward Sean's complete email, including his private email address without his permission? If he were a public figure as you are, that might be acceptable, but as simple, private citizens, I would think that your organization would be more circumspect in actions such as this.

Neva Li

----- Original Message -----
From: Kristen Rand
To: Neva Li
Sent: Friday, November 05, 2004 4:38 PM
Subject: Re: Thank You!

I guess it's just a coincidence we got 30 virtually identical emails in one day. Here's one example. Do you also spend your time dressing up in suits of armor like Sean does?

Date: Fri, 5 Nov 2004 13:04:15 -0800 (PST)
From: "Sean xxxxxxxxxxx" <sxxxxxxxxxxx@yahoo.com>
Reply-To: Sean@xxxxxxxxxx.com
Subject: Youth Guns list
To: info@vpc.org
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

I wanted to thank you guys (and gals) for your handy
list of long guns suitable for youths.
one criticism though. you failed to include both
prices and links to the manufacturers.
how can we be responsible comparison shoppers without
this info. as it is, the only firearm on this list i
have any personal experience with is the Henry Lever
Youth Model 22, which my Mom (5'0" tall, 62 years old)
owns. while it is undoubtedly a fine firearm, and very
accurate out to about 100 yards, i find that i might
like to consider a rifle without the exposed hammer.
when shooting woodchucks at very close range (for
anything over 100 yards we have a bigger rifle that i
got at the tender age of 15) i find that the movement
of the hammer tends to disturb my shot. it isn't
enough to miss if it was the only gun my mom could
find to shoot an intruder (she has a pistol for that)
it does make small animals like the woodchuck a bit
so how about it? prices, and links to the
Sean, 34 Richmond, VA
Sean xxxxxxxxxx
check out my photos @

At 04:24 PM 11/5/04 -0500, you wrote:

Dear Kristen,

Thank once again for your response. Dialogue on the issues is always so gratifying.

Please try not to overreact. My gratitude is my own and despite what may seem to be a "coordinated campaign" of some kind, I am sure that you can appreciate that I have found your list useful and that I am quite happy that you have provided it.

Thanks again for your efforts on our behalf in educating young firearms advocates and enthusiasts in available choices of firearms that work best for their age group.

Neva Li

----- Original Message -----
From: Kristen Rand
To: Neva Li
Sent: Friday, November 05, 2004 3:49 PM
Subject: Re: Thank You!

I guess because you spend your time participating in a silly little coordinated campaign to harass us.

At 03:42 PM 11/5/04 -0500, you wrote:
Dear Kristen,
Thank you for your response.
I do wonder why on earth would you assume that my life was either empty or filled with hate? I've already explained that I am a teacher, which is actually quite a loving profession and certainly one which would never prompt anyone to describe my life as empty.
I wrote you because I am very happy to be able to make educated recommendations on firearms appropriate for youth use. I thought you would be happy to know that people who are committed to teaching our youth to be responsible in handling firearms appreciate having this information so readily available.
Please take my missives in the spirit in which they are intended.
Neva Li

----- Original Message -----
From: Kristen Rand
To: Neva Li
Sent: Friday, November 05, 2004 3:13 PM
Subject: Re: Thank You!

You must have a very empty life if this is how you spend your time. If you aren't filled with hate, you wouldn't bother us with your silly little missives.

At 03:04 PM 11/5/04 -0500, you wrote:
Dear Kristen,
Thank you for your response.
Of course, it never would be one of my children since I would always teach my child responsible firearms usage and none of my children is filled with disabling hatred as spewed and taught by the Radical Left.
I do not have "kids", by the way, but do know other responsible firearms owners who keep goats. They never allow them to handle firearms, though.
Neva Li

----- Original Message -----
From: Kristen Rand
To: Neva Li
Sent: Friday, November 05, 2004 2:53 PM
Subject: Re: Thank You!

You'll just have to hope this isn't your kid:

Associated Press
December 20, 2003

2 Youths Held in Web Site Threat

Two youths, including one who had asked for a gun for Christmas, were arrested after allegedly making death threats against high school athletes.

"I have a bag full of bullets waiting for you," authorities said one of the students allegedly wrote on the Web site.

The Web site also said one of the two liked killing, playing video games and "burning" and "butchering" Jews, police said.

Police do not believe the two had access to weapons, but one was about to get a weapon as a Christmas gift.

"One of the fathers told us that the kid had asked for a firearm for Christmas and the father said he purchased it for him last Saturday," he said. "The kid didn't even know he had it coming. The father said based on this information he was obviously not going to get it."

At 02:13 PM 11/5/04 -0500, you wrote:
As a teacher in the public school system and a certified firearms instructor there is some crossover and I am occasionally asked what type of firearm might be appropriate for a child. I have never researched it to any great degree but am now blessed with your fairly extensive list. I have printed it out and will distribute it to the parents wishing to teach their children about responsible firearms usage in the future.
Neva Li

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November 5, 2004, 08:32 PM
All you need to know about VPC...

http://www.libertybelles.org/"The semi-automatic weapons' menacing looks, coupled with the public's confusion over fully automatic machine guns versus semi-automatic assault weapons — anything that looks like a machine gun is assumed to be a machine gun — can only increase that chance of public support for restrictions on these weapons."
— Josh Sugarman, 1988, Violence Policy Center.

November 5, 2004, 08:35 PM
Run this by Kristen as well...

Lawfully carried guns in school stories (http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=62602&highlight=guns+in+school+stories)

Here is the first of several dozen stories...
Litchfield, CA - years.... Man.... you going to make me get out the calculator to figure that out? 63-66, grades 6th through 8th. Used to carry either my .22 rifle or 16 guage shotgun to school on the bus. Would leave with principal and pick up after school. I and a couple of friends would hunt rabbits or ground squarrels on the way home. (yes on these days we would walk the 7 or 8 miles home) Would hunt ducks, quail or pheasant with the shotgun. Litchfield is a very small school located 20 miles east of Susanville. Heck we had 8 kids in my 8th grade glass and it was the largest the school had ever seen.

Lassen High School. 66-70. Used to leave our guns in our vechiles on School grounds. Most would have pickups with gun racks, with their guns in them. Until I got my drivers license I used to leave my in my older bothers car on those days that I was going hunting. Even a few of the teachers and the principal had their guns in their cars. The principal was an avid hunter as were about a 1/4 of the staff.

Lassen Community College. 70-72. Used to carry guns to and from class all the time. They have one of the Country's best gun smithing schools. They also have a couple of firearms classes. My understanding is that these classes are still being taught. Don't know if they still have them, but the JC had a rifle range on campas and one off campas that they shared with the local LEO's for pistol. Carrying on school grounds other than for the classes, see highschool above.

Can't ever remember of any one being shot or even threatened with a gun on campus. Sure we have our fist fights, but no one even considered getting a gun out. Just wasn't done.

Standing Wolf
November 5, 2004, 08:38 PM
While not a comprehensive collection of all youth guns available, it illustrates the scope of the effort by the gun industry to market firearms to children.

Well, at least it's a start. See? I told you leftist extremists aren't completely useless, didn't I?

November 5, 2004, 09:25 PM
You should also ask her if she can get a good recommendation on a handgun from her co-worker, Tom Diaz who admitted to being a handgun owner in the Boston Globe on February 15, 2003.


''It's macabre,'' said Tom Diaz, an author and senior policy director of the Violence Policy Center. ''Lethality is the nicotine of the gun industry. It uses innovations and greater killing power to get customers. It's a sick market.''

Still, Diaz, a handgun owner, admitted his curiosity was aroused by the engineering.

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