[Barbara]

They compiled this handy list in case anyone needs it for Christmas shopping.

We should thank them for their help. :D

http://www.vpc.org/studies/22ap.htm

[Ukraine Train]

Ahh yes, it makes perfect sense for companies to spend millions of dollars to advertise guns to children so that they go out in droves to gun stores and buy them. Hopefully they have step stools so they can reach over the counter to hand over the hundreds of dollars all children have.

[Archie]

I have the urge to send an email to VPC and thank them for the handy reference list.




Then ask if they know of a retailer in my area that has the 'model X' ready for sale.

I should be ashamed of myself for such a mean thought. I'm not, but I should be.

[Third_Rail]

I desperately want to smack them.


But I won't. Instead, I'll go to bed happily in a moment, knowing that people as dumb as these cannot, and won't, win in the end, not as long as I breathe.

Comforting, actually. :D


I have to wonder if they're concerned about the mini-SUV lookalikes sold as "toys" that kill and harm so many children a year? Those big electric "toys" sure are dangerous, and they're marketed at the youth.... so are the companies responsible? No? Gee, thanks for being un-biased, VPC. :rolleyes:

[Werewolf]

:) Actually a pretty good list - so good in fact that I sent the VPC this thankyou note.Hey,
You guys are great! Your comprehensive list of guns designed specifically for youths at http://www.vpc.org/studies/22ap.htm is going to save me a bunch of time. I've got two grand kids who will be learning to shoot with me as their instructor. They're really looking forward to it. Now I won't have to spend a lot of time searching the gun stores looking for just the right model. Y'all have done all the work for me. Pick out what I want and just go order.

Good job guys. I appreciate it.

Oh by the way - thanks for being so concerned about banning guns that all of us who shoot for sport felt it was really, really important to go vote for Mr. Bush.

Michael Andress
OKC, OKSomehow I don't think they'll appreciate the commendation though. :p

[goon]

Thanks for bringing this up guys.
Here is my email to them.

:D

I was just writing to thank you for compiling a list of firearms that are made specifically for young people. I work at a gun shop and many of our customers bring their children in looking for a first gun that is made to fit smaller statured shooters. It is very important that a child's first firearm fit him or her properly. If the gun doesn't fit correctly the child can develop bad shooting habits which could be dangerous, so a proper fit is essential.
I was wondering if you would give me permission to print your list out and use it as a guide to help those customers in making their decision.

[taliv]

heh, nice

but ask them to add the Davey Crickett to the list! i got my daughter (age 6) one with a beautiful pink laminated wood stock, and my nephew (age 6) an evil black one for their birthdays this year. great gun.

[bfieldburt]

Classic letter to the VPC.

I love that part about them motivating you to go out and vote for BUSH.

Yeah, I loved that part.

[TechBrute]

While not a comprehensive collection of all youth guns available, it illustrates the scope of the effort by the gun industry to market firearms to children. Market guns to children? What a bunch of morons. That's like saying that Dodge markets minivans to children. My kid can no more buy a gun than a minivan, but both companies make a product that adults buy because of their kids. Nearly every buyer of a minivan would not choose that vehicle if they didn't have a herd of munchkins to haul around in the back. Along the same lines, no one is going to buy a youth rifle unless their kid wants to go shooting with them.

[4v50 Gary]

The list would be more useful if they added the prices. :p

[chaim]

I have to wonder if they're concerned about the mini-SUV lookalikes sold as "toys" that kill and harm so many children a year? Those big electric "toys" sure are dangerous, and they're marketed at the youth.... so are the companies responsible? No? Gee, thanks for being un-biased, VPC.

Ahh, but SUVs are ok, guns are baaaaahd. Can't have kids getting into shooting, shooters tend to know about guns and aren't going to buy all the anti-gun propaganda. Small, child sized guns make it easier for children to get into shooting. Thus, they appear to be about to make an effort to ban guns for kids. This list is the beginning of their effort, next after making their constituency aware of the "problem" they will start their whining to politicians.

Many of the responses here are in jest, it looks like a joke to us. This isn't a joke, it seems to represent one of the antis next targets. This is deadly serious and we need to prepare a defense now before they start gaining momentum.

[goon]

Ahh, but SUVs are ok, guns are baaaaahd. Can't have kids getting into shooting, shooters tend to know about guns and aren't going to buy all the anti-gun propaganda. Small, child sized guns make it easier for children to get into shooting. Thus, they appear to be about to make an effort to ban guns for kids. This list is the beginning of their effort, next after making their constituency aware of the "problem" they will start their whining to politicians.

Many of the responses here are in jest, it looks like a joke to us. This isn't a joke, it seems to represent one of the antis next targets. This is deadly serious and we need to prepare a defense now before they start gaining momentum.


I guess you do have a point.
One other thing I noticed about the list...
They missed the AK.
Most of them come with youth sized stocks already.

[TechBrute]

The list would be more useful if they added the prices. :p
Yeah, but then they would kind of look silly saying that Anshutz markets a $1200, single shot, .22LR to kids.

[NHBB]

they should throw in the M4 shorty bushmaster... without the teletype stock its like shooting this munchkin land rifle.

and lol @ the letter to them thanking them, you know someone there had to read it and got all bent and irate over it :D

[antron]

I am a little PO'd.. I used their guidlines and bought my 7 year old daughter the Savage Arms Model 10GY, in the 308 cartridge and the recoil is to much for her ! :what:

I guess these a-holes dont really know anything about firearms ! :neener:


Bob

[Sistema1927]

My letter to the VPC:

Re: A .22 for Christmas

Thanks for the list. One suggestion though: Could you update the list with the MSRP so as to assist me in my Christmas shopping for my twin grandsons?

I remember the joy I experienced when I received a .22 rifle for Christmas as a young person, and don't want my grandchildren to miss out on all the fun.

[TechBrute]

Maybe ask for a gun store locator so you can find out where to purchase them.

[Sistema1927]

A reply from Tom Diaz at VPC:

Dear (Sistema),

You're quite welcome. Your thoughtful email is only one of many similar ones that we receive from "sheeple" like you who quite reliably bleat precisely the same sentiment whenever the gun industry twists their cute little tails. These flatulent emissions come in cyclic waves, a phenomenon that strikes the intelligent observer (that would be us) as strikingly similar to the rat-like scurrying of the lemming.

What an independent thinker you must be! Bet you also have a nice bumper-sticker or two. Four or five narrow-minded words . . . . and none of it original.

Have nice day, (Sistema).

And, my subsequent response to him:

Funny that you would use the word "sheeple" in your reply to me.

I prefer to think that the "sheeple" are those who believe that it is
the duty of someone else to protect them, and who cringe with fear
when around "evil" firearms.

As a law abiding citizen, I legally carry a firearm for the defense of
my life, and that of my family. In fact, the weapon that is normally
on me would be described by you as a "pocket rocket" (Kahr PM9).
Isn't it funny that the part of the country that I live in ("fly over
country" to the elitists who think that they know best) has a much
lower incidence of violent crime than those places that forbid an
individual from exercising their God given right to self-defense.

I intend to inculcate my grandchildren with the same values with which
I was raised. That includes an introduction, at an early age, to the
joys of marksmanship, safe use of firearms, and a love for their
heritage. This won't be too hard, since I began the same process with
their mother when she was four, and she has been a safe and
responsible user of firearms ever since that time.

Yes, I do have a couple of bumper stickers. The one that I am most
proud of is the one that says "Viva! Bush".

[TechBrute]

A reply from Tom Diaz at VPC:

Dear (Sistema),

You're quite welcome. Your thoughtful email is only one of many similar ones that we receive from "sheeple" like you who quite reliably bleat precisely the same sentiment whenever the gun industry twists their cute little tails. These flatulent emissions come in cyclic waves, a phenomenon that strikes the intelligent observer (that would be us) as strikingly similar to the rat-like scurrying of the lemming.

What an independent thinker you must be! Bet you also have a nice bumper-sticker or two. Four or five narrow-minded words . . . . and none of it original.

Have nice day, (Sistema).

And, my subsequent response to him:

Funny that you would use the word "sheeple" in your reply to me.

I prefer to think that the "sheeple" are those who believe that it is
the duty of someone else to protect them, and who cringe with fear
when around "evil" firearms.

As a law abiding citizen, I legally carry a firearm for the defense of
my life, and that of my family. In fact, the weapon that is normally
on me would be described by you as a "pocket rocket" (Kahr PM9).
Isn't it funny that the part of the country that I live in ("fly over
country" to the elitists who think that they know best) has a much
lower incidence of violent crime than those places that forbid an
individual from exercising their God given right to self-defense.

I intend to inculcate my grandchildren with the same values with which
I was raised. That includes an introduction, at an early age, to the
joys of marksmanship, safe use of firearms, and a love for their
heritage. This won't be too hard, since I began the same process with
their mother when she was four, and she has been a safe and
responsible user of firearms ever since that time.

Yes, I do have a couple of bumper stickers. The one that I am most
proud of is the one that says "Viva! Bush".
Oh! LM friggin AO.

[TimH]

I sent them a thank you note also. I did ask them to include pricing next time :neener:

[Jake in TX]

I took a hard look at the entire report. It's from December, 2001. An update with current prices would still be nice.

Jake in TX

[Sylvilagus Aquaticus]

Hmmm...Mr. Diaz' response is similar in form, tone and content to some of the muckrakers I've run across from other liberal sites.

Maybe he's just not letting us know what his user name is?

Anyway, he has a nice list, if not a little outdated. My brother picked up a Trifecta of Rossi Matched Doubles for his kids, aged 14, 10, and 8. Mr. Diaz missed them on his list, but they're the perfect size for teaching his children how to be responsible, educated marksmen (and markswomen; the oldest two are girls- I'd hate for Mr. Diaz to think I wasn't politically correct).



Regards,
Rabbit.

[NHBB]

I hadn't seen that site prior..... those .pdf's they provide on their main page are so informative :barf:

[sturmruger]

After reading the reply that Sistema1927 got from the VPC I almost had a breakdown. I never wanted to shoot my monitor so bad in my whole life!!! That Tom Diaz is a completer idiot!!!! :fire: I don't think he has any idea how to use the work "sheeple" correctly. I think someone should set him straight so that in the future he can correctly use it in a sentance.

[Justin]

Cartoon linked via Scott Bieser's Liberty Art Worx (http://www.libertyartworx.com)

http://www.libertyartworx.com/images/Diaz_speaks_700.jpg

[wasrjoe]

Poor Diaz, so angry that he's becoming less and less relevant each passing moment.

[foghornl]

Oh, come on, SturmRuger. Mr Diaz is not a complete idiot...






Some parts are missing :p :neener:

[Sistema1927]

Believe it or not, I have actually continued my correspondance with Tom Diaz. He continues to think that we are usefull "sheeple" stooges for the gun industry, due to the fact that he has received numerous similar responses to the ".22 for Christmas" page.

I have tried to explain to him that it is very easy to explain why he is receiving similar replies, and it has nothing to do with getting "marchng orders" from gun manufacturers or the NRA. Quite simply, there are enough of us who see just how ludicrous his arguments are, and we respond in a similar fashion.

Lately, he has resorted to mailing me a picture of the Columbine killers, showing that "kid with gun" is a bad thing. I have remained civil, and have attempted to counter his arguments using logic and reason.

I doubt he will ever change, but it is interesting that he is actually engaging me in discussion.

[Archer]

Sistema,

Never wrestle with a pig. You just get dirty, and the pig enjoys the attention.

These people suffer from a mental affliction.

[goon]

You guys got replies?
That sucks?
I want a reply too. I want to get in on the fun.

[nico]

sistema, maybe you should send him a link to this thread.