[Ryan in the House]

I saw this webpage (http://www.hipowersandhandguns.com/MakarovBersa.htm) and found myself stuck between the two pistols.

The webpage answered a lot of questions I had about the Makarov and the Bersa.

I'd like to know which one of the two guns you prefer... and why?

[horge]

I rather thought Stephen's article did a good job on the question.

Both are reliable, handle well, point well, and aren't wallet-wreckers.
The Pistolet Mak in original chambering packs a wee bit more punch via its cartridge.
The Bersa Thunder 380 is made brand-new, and with a lighter frame and more
'safety features'.

Choose between them?
Naaaah.
Get both.

[MICHAEL T]

Bersa ,better trigger, better sights .Just a nicer pistol all around . Can find 380 ammo about any place. The 9x18 is not that much hotter ,than a 380. I don't belive BG is gonna scream ,O NO! Ive been shot by a 9x18 as he flys 15 yards backwards :what: Its also better looking. Buy the Bersa. :)

[Ryan in the House]

Horge, I might wind up getting both in the future, but for now I want to chose one that I can learn to shoot with. I'm leaning towards the Bersa, because I was interested in a PPK-style gun to begin with, and the Bersa represents that style better than the Makarov.

I think I'm going to go for the Bersa 380, but my mind is not made up.

[Clean97GTI]

The 9x18 is not that much hotter ,than a 380. I don't belive BG is gonna scream ,O NO! Ive been shot by a 9x18 as he flys 15 yards backwards :what: Its also better looking. Buy the Bersa. :)

9x18 isn't that much hotter, but it does have heavier bullets available. You can get up to 120grn rounds for the 9x18Mak.

The Bersa better looking :scrutiny: I don't think so.

I would agree with an above post. Buy both...carry something a bit stronger though.

[Ala Dan]

Greeting's All-

Another vote for the Bersa .380 DT Thunder. Good, inexpensive
weapons in a quality package.

Best Wishes,
Ala Dan, N.R.A. Life Member

[RUT]

>>Naaaah.Get both.<<

My sentiments exactly. :)

[Ryan in the House]

The one I buy is the one I intend to carry with me (until I get a bigger gun later in the future). A small gun is better than no gun... and a .380 ACP will stop any human, unless he's equipped with body armor and a riot helmet.

I don't plan to fight the SWAT Team, though.

[White Horseradish]

Greeting's All-

Another vote for the Bersa .380 DT Thunder. Good, inexpensive
weapons in a quality package.

Best Wishes,
Ala Dan, N.R.A. Life Member


Are you saying the Makarov quality is lacking?

[Trebor]

I'm a big Mak fan. I carried an EG for two years and found it to be very reliable, accurate and fun to shoot.

I don't own a Bersa, but I've handled several. Of the two, I prefer the Mak.

I think Stephen's report summed up the differences nicely. Figure out which gun has the features you prefer and go with that one. For me, the Bersa is out of the running for two reasons: 1. I don't like mag disconnect safeties and 2. I only buy pistols where the thumb safety moves DOWN like on a 1911. The Bersa safety moves UP, like PPK, so that rules it out for me.

[Ryan in the House]

What is a magazine disconnect safety?

I bet I could get used to the up-ward motion to take off the safety. I won't lose sleep over it, or anything.

[denfoote]

A magazine "safety" is a disconnect device such that the pistol will not fire if the magazine is removed!!
It is one of those items that emerged from the demented world of Sara Brady's wet dreams!!!
IMHO, it's presence is not desirable in a defensive handgun!!

[Clean97GTI]

On the Makarov, the safety isn't an issue for me as I carry it hammer down on a loaded chamber. I use two safeties, one on my hand and the other between my ears.

Don't know about the Bersa. My other choice would be a CZ-83 if you are looking for a small pistol. Te CZ is more expensive though.

Get the Makarov. :cool:

[Rich K]

I bought a Bersa a couple of years ago,and have no complaints about it.Well made little gun,and reliable.

[Ala Dan]

Greeting's All-

No, I'm not saying that the Mak's quality is lacking; just that I prefer the
Bersa over the Mak. Often times when persons here about Bersa's
in a world that evolves around Glock's, SIG'S, 1911's, H&K's, etc. folks
then to think of Bersa's as "junk guns"; therefore my point referring to
quality.

Best Wishes,
Ala Dan, N.R.A. Life Member

[MrMurphy]

I've shot both. I bought the Bersa. I carried it safety off, using the DA trigger only.

[Teakwood]

This subject comes up over an over again. There are reasons for choosing one over the other and Stephen A. Camp made a good comparison.

If you are asking the question as to which to choose, then I assume you have not tried both and probably have not handled a Mak. Maks are a passion for many. I myself have accumulated quite a collection. For the unitiated, I would say to get a Bersa since you can buy one new and you can get direct manufacturer's support. The Maks are for those who are a little more into the esoteric and can appreciate its finer points.

[Shane333]

Get a CZ83. It's a similar design to the Mak, but with superior ergonomics and controls and similar reliability. It also holds more rounds than either the Mak or Bersa.

[jc2]

Get a CZ83. It's a similar design to the Mak, but with superior ergonomics and controls and similar reliability. It also holds more rounds than either the Mak or Bersa.
Similar design? Detail strip and reassemble a Mak and detail strip a CZ83 and reassemble a CZ83, then tell me they're a "similar design." The Mak is pocketable (barely). The CZ83 is strictly a belt and holster proposition.

Superior ergonomics and controls? Both are kind of subjective and personal, aren't they. Frankly, I find the Mak's ergonomics very good for me and my hand. I like the idea of they safety dropping the hammer (and prefer a European-style magazine release of a concealed carry weapon). The Mak wins for me on the safety alone with the mag release as icing on the cake.

[DMK]

I considered both at one time, but went with the Mak for two reasons.

1) Legendary reliability. My Mak hasn't ever jammed or misfired. It's tought too, built like a T72 tank.

2) Ammo cost. Barnual 9x18 is as cheap as bulk priced 9x19. Aside from my .38 special and 22LR guns, it's my cheapest gun to shoot. (Magazines were cheap also, I got about a dozen for less than $5 each from AIM Surplus last summer)

Mine's mainly a range toy. It's fun to shoot, cheap to shoot, very accurate, and easy to clean with its chrome lined barrel.

[pakmcc]

I was at the range last week and an instructer for CCL and me got to talking. He had a man coming who hadn't shot pistols in a while(20 years or so) . The man showed up and he could still shoot the instructers guns pretty darn well.
since I was there I let him shoot my CZ 52 and he really liked it. I had my CZ 83 with me and he did a really good job of getting nice tight groups with it also. I'm not sure what guns the instructer had but Mr Meil was not real impressed with them. But, he really liked my CZ 83. While we were talking I figured what the heck. I went and got my CC pistol (A Makarov) and I had only three mag.s with me. Mr Meil shot two of them and then I showed how tight a group the mak will really shot. I believe with wolf brand ammo I shot a group at 10 yds of about a inch and a half, two handed. (I've had the gun about 6 months and I "know" where it shoots.
To make a long story, I sold my mak. right then and there to Mr. Meil, ( hate to see a grown man cry (ok, I"m not sure who was crying)
But, Mr Meil was an EX. marine (As I am) and we got along good.
The object of the stroy is, After the smoke blows away, the Mak. won even over a CZ83, much less some other $550+ pistols "O" the instructer had a Besa .380 and Mr Meil wasn't interested in it at all.
Then a very nice person contacted me and sold me a "new" in the box Bulg. Mak. at a good price. All I have to do is clean the comolene out of it.
I didn't go to the range to sell anything and that's the first time this has ever happen. but, "we " now have another pistol recurt. And someone to talk guns with.
sorry, I missed a point or two. I put my Mak. up along side my CZ83 and would you believe these two pistols are the same height and lenght. My CZ 83 might be a little wider but not so you would know it. I have a place where I carry my Mak. and to get home I loaded the 83 and it fit like a glove where the mak went. But the CZ 83 is a little more comforable to shoot of the two.
pakmcc

[Shane333]

Similar design? Detail strip and reassemble a Mak and detail strip a CZ83 and reassemble a CZ83, then tell me they're a "similar design." The Mak is pocketable (barely). The CZ83 is strictly a belt and holster proposition.

Superior ergonomics and controls? Both are kind of subjective and personal, aren't they. Frankly, I find the Mak's ergonomics very good for me and my hand. I like the idea of they safety dropping the hammer (and prefer a European-style magazine release of a concealed carry weapon). The Mak wins for me on the safety alone with the mag release as icing on the cake.


Oh brother :rolleyes: . Sure, there are some differences between the CZ83 and Mak. I dare you to place the two side by side and claim that you don't see the lineage. The USSR told Czechoslovakia that they had to manufacture a pistol for the 9x18. So the Czechs took the basic Mak design and improved on it.

How did they improve? Hmmm...let me see. Ambidextrous mag release and ambi safety. The CZ83 has a very nice single action or double action with a much better trigger than the Mak (at least the one's I've tried). The grip of the CZ83 is much more ergonomic in the sense that it is much more comfortable to shoot and doesn't beat up one's hands nearly as much as the Mak. Perhaps there is some subjective opinion there, but I bet most people who've shot both would agree with me.

It became apparent to the Czechs that there was a better market for the .380 than the 9x18, so naturally they rechambered the gun for the .380 for export. You can still get the 9x18 on special order or by finding a used one.

As for breaking the two guns down, my neighbor and I have done that (his Mak and my CZ83). Very similar designs. So what if the parts aren't interchangeable. The CZ83 isn't another Mak, it's a newer gun that took from the Mak's basic design, as I've indicated before.

[Ryan in the House]

After researching it even more, I am once again leaning towards the Bersa 380. First off, they're made new, and I get a warranty with it. I'm new around guns, and incompetent when it comes to maintaining them and figuring out what's wrong with them... and if I have (manufacturing related) problems, I can take advantage of the Bersa's limited lifetime warranty.

Other than that, I've been pretty centered towards the 9x17 round, probably because I get more variation (in terms of what I can buy).

Also, I like having a new-in-the-box gun. Of course, this is not the only factor, but it helps.

I've been reading about how smooth the Bersa functions, and how well it performs at the range. I only read one review where someone said they had misfires with the gun, and they said the problem went away after they fired it even more.

The design of the Bersa is also more appealing to me, as I originally wanted to buy a Walther PPK. I can get used to the safety mechanism going "backwards." I like how the Bersa's magazine disconnect is on the left side of the pistol, so I can reach it with my thumb, rather than on the bottom. My family owns a Ruger Mk II handgun, and a Colt/Remington 1911, and one thing I prefer about the 1911 is that the mag disconnect is right next to my thumb.

I wonder if anyone would agree with my reasoning.

Buying ammo for the Makarov might be cheaper, but I'm not going to take a huge hit on it, considering all of the favorable features on the Bersa 380.

[middy]

I never even used the safety on my Bersa, except as a decocker. The DA trigger is stout enough with a holster to ease any worries of a ND. Just pretend it's a Sig. :)
The only reason to go with the Makarov is if you plan on shooting a lot. Tens of thousands of rounds will wear out the Bersa.

[Ala Dan]

Att: Ryan

Your reasoning sounds good too me. Now, go get the Bersa! Pass "GO",
collect $200, and head right straight for your favorite gunshop. Our
everyday low price is $199 on the Duotone Bersa .380. Proly, the best
bargain in the house! :D

Best Wishes,
Ala Dan, N.R.A. Life Member

[denfoote]

Without a doubt!!
Go for the Bersa!!
If I didn't already have several platforms for launching the 9mm Kurz, I would run right out and get a Bersa!!

[JohnMc]

Another point to consider: hand size.

I've got a Mak and I love it, but I let a buddy with big mitts try it and he got slide bite. The Mak was just a little to small. The beavertail on the Bersa would have kept his hand away from the slide.

[New_comer]

I'd go Bersa. Been on my wish list ever since I started to shoot guns about four years ago ;)

[Ryan in the House]

Another point to consider: hand size.

I've got a Mak and I love it, but I let a buddy with big mitts try it and he got slide bite. The Mak was just a little to small. The beavertail on the Bersa would have kept his hand away from the slide.

Oh.

I have pretty big hands; and I read a lot about the extended tang on the Bersa 380. It extends further than the Walther PPK's?

[JohnMc]

t extends further than the Walther PPK's?
I don't know, perhaps someone will fill in that data.
JohnMc

[MrMurphy]

Yes.


And it's a "Magazine release" or "magazine button". A Mag Disconnect is a safety where the gun won't fire with the magazine removed (completely different thing).

[Dionysusigma]

And now to throw a wrench in the works... :)

http://www.cz-usa.com/product.img/40.jpg
The Ugly Duckling of Czechoslovakia, the CZ-83 (http://www.cz-usa.com/product.detail.php?id=40)

How does this compare to the Mak and Bersa? What's the price on these things?

[Shane333]

And now to throw a wrench in the works... :)

http://www.cz-usa.com/product.img/40.jpg
The Ugly Duckling of Czechoslovakia, the CZ-83 (http://www.cz-usa.com/product.detail.php?id=40)

How does this compare to the Mak and Bersa? What's the price on these things?


New: About $310 here in Utah if you shop around.

Used: About $200

I bought mine (thanks to help from CZF) for $150 without mags from Old Sacramento Armoury. After paying shipping and transfer fees it was about $175. I was fortunate to later find a vendor at a gun show who sold me two 13 round mags for a total of $40.

So all in all, it was about $215 with two 13 rd mags.

[wasrjoe]

If you can possibly do so, please, fire both before you make your final decision. You cannot go wrong with either - as long as the ergonomics fit you!

[DougB]

I think its all been said several times, but, for what it's worth, I own a Bersa .380 and several Bulgarian Makarovs. I like them both a lot, and would hate to have to choose between them. Both have been reliable. I don't think you'll make a mistake with either.

One possible consideration is that Makarovs are inexpensive because they are surplus pistols. At some point, the countries (primarily Bulgaria) selling them will run out, supplies will dry up, and prices will rise on them. This won't likely be sudden, but I wouldn't be surprised to see Makarovs selling for significantly more in five years (but that's just my guess). Look what's happened to the prices of Russian SKSs (roughly tripled in 10 years or so). And that's with Yugo SKSs still avaialble and cheap.

Doug

[donkee]

Tomorrow, I go to pickup my new CZ75BD Police (twitchin with excitement tonight) but my only other handgun is a bulgarian makarov. The dang little thing has never jammed, groups tight, and has been serving me wonderfully at IDPA parctice. That mak is running with the big boys and will not quit. I am completely biased and suggest the mak. you will not be disappointed. After I pickup the new plaything, that mak will still be going with me everytime I hit the range. When the new shipment of unissued maks come in, I will be picking up another. The 75 will probably never replace the mak as my preferred CCW piece since I have never owned anything that has been as reliable.......

Just my opinion

[David4516]

I've never fired a Bersa, but I do own a Makarov and I can recomend it. My Mak is 100% reliable, has not jammed once. For a carry gun, that is the most important factor. When your life is on the line, you want a gun that will go "bang" every time...

I'd like to get a second Mak sometime, and convert it to .32NAA, just because I think that would be interesting...

[Ryan in the House]

One possible consideration is that Makarovs are inexpensive because they are surplus pistols. At some point, the countries (primarily Bulgaria) selling them will run out, supplies will dry up, and prices will rise on them. This won't likely be sudden, but I wouldn't be surprised to see Makarovs selling for significantly more in five years (but that's just my guess). Look what's happened to the prices of Russian SKSs (roughly tripled in 10 years or so). And that's with Yugo SKSs still avaialble and cheap.

That's another factor I took into consideration, and I have been faced with that same factor before when buying bass guitars. Afraid that '75 Reissue Jazz basses would go out of production soon (as I had stopped seeing them in stores, and began seeing more of them on eBay), I went and bought the first one I could find that was in good condition. I'm familiar with that experience... and I would not hesitate to get the Makarov if I found one in superb condition - I am a good-condition freak, I like my stuff to work like new, and look new.

I like the idea of the Bersa, but my decisions are rather split, because I like the Makarov, too! I am slightly leaning towards the Bersa, but if I find a Makarov in near-perfect or perfect condition, then I will probably be more inclined to buy it. I'm not going to buy one if it looks like it has gone thru a wood-chipper though. I wont buy one that has been worn out after years of service. I like them new... that's an upside to buying the Bersa; they're new.

Stupid reasoning? Well, whatever. It's how I am... not afraid to spend an extra buck for better looks.

[DougB]

Ryan,

I wouldn't try to talk you out of a Bersa at all (I like mine), but I've seen a lot of "excellent" Makarovs that look new after you clean off the cosmoline. I think most of the excellents I've seen (including several I own) were probably new guns - in the sense of never having been issued, carried, or used. About the only sign of wear I've noticed on most of them is the blue worn off where the safety/decocker goes up and down (I suspect this happens the first few times the lever is moved up and down - a "feature" of the Mak design).

Of course, you won't probably get a warranty - but with an excellent Mak you almost certainly won't need it. With excellent Makarovs so inexpensive, I don't see much reason to buy a used-looking one unless you intentionally want a gun you won't have to worry about scratching (which isn't a bad idea - I have a couple of Maks that do show some finish wear, and they are actually the ones I enjoy the most because I can take them fishing, canoing, camping, etc. without worrying about scratching them...so I shoot them more).

Doug

[Ryan in the House]

Are all Makarovs - whether they were made in East Germany, Russia, or Bulgaria - the same?

[jc2]

All Makarovs are the same whether they are made in Bulgaria, China, Russia or East Germany. There are some 9x18 Mak calibre weapons (made in Poland and Hungary) that are advertised as Makarovs but are not. The confusion is Makarov is a weapon and a calibre.

[donkee]

Here's my Mak with the new CZ75BD Police.

The Mak is a sweet little puppy and you can get them from AIM, or Akron Armoury, if they ever get in the new shipment of unissueds that is....