[Universal]

I am moving to the country and will be living in an area with wildlife such as deer, racoons and even a mountain lion every now and again. Dogs may also run around loose. At the moment I own a S&W model 15 for home defense but I am thinking that it would not help me much if I had to put down one of the above mentioned critters for some reason. Well, I am sure a racoon or a dog would not be an issue but anything bigger might.

I was hoping for some input on an inexpensive firearm that could be of use. I was thinking about a Remington 870 shotgun or some sort of rifle. Maybe a .357 Magnum revolver or some other handgun. I much prefer to shoot handguns but I do hold my own with regards to longarms.

Thank you.

[Art Eatman]

A good used 870 in 12 gauge would deal with anything close enough to harm you.

A halfway decent hunting rifle is never a bad thing. I prefer bolt-actions, myself, and my tri-focal eyes scream, "Scope sight!" Cartridge? Most anything from .243 to '06 will deal with anything you'd probably care about.

Again thinking of budget, I've never had any problem with a used rifle, given that the bore is decent. Any other flaws are just talking points in bargaining. I've had good results with a whole bunch of gunshow trade-ins, back when I was active in having a table...

:), Art

[Standing Wolf]

Personally, I doubt there's a hand gun cartridge in the world that constitutes ideal medicine for mountain lions, bears, and the like. I believe I'd find a fairly inexpensive, light rifle, and invest in a comfortable sling.

[jefnvk]

Get a Rem 870 or a Mossbeg 500. If you need something bigger then a 12ga. for defense, you're in lots of trouble.

[Baba Louie]

Nothing wrong with a .30-30 or .44 mag trapper sized lever action either, being in the country and all. Could probably use a SA revolver as well in .44 mag and shoot specials in it. Or stick to either in .357. Probably keep most critters at bay, 2 or 4 legged.

[jamz]

Gonna eat a lot of peaches?



;)

[GigaBuist]

Out in the country just about everybody I knew had a 20 gauge or 12 gauge shotgun laying around somewhere for 'critter control'. Doesn't make much difference what it is really, just as long as it shoots. A rabid racoon isn't life or death, here, so having the best equipment isn't a big deal.

If you're worried about being attacked by a deer... well.. you've got issues. :) Keeping something handy around to dispatch one when they're in season though for the meat isn't a bad idea. Scatter gun works for this too.

On a budget I'd grab the cheapest most beat-up 20 or 12 gauge I could find. Single shot break open shotty? Okay, it works. If I wanted to splurge I'd get a Mossy 500 or Rem 870 (already suggested) but go used... it's not like they break.

Now, for the bear, if you're worried about that... milsurps! Grab a cheap Mosin Nagant ($50 for crap, $120 for perfect) and some softpoint 7.62x54R ammo. Good enough for black bear I'm told. Other options exist, but the Mosin is going to be the cheapest.

[ken grant]

Get a good handgun along with your rifle or shotgun,learn to use it well as it is the only one that you can have with you at all times.
Kinda hard to carry a long gun when doing chores.

[ARGarrison]

I'll second, or third or fourth, what ever the count is, a Shotgun. A good shotgun is the do everything gun. But don't over look a good .22 for dealing with Varmints.

[JamisJockey]

Every good country boy owns a 30-30....You can pick one up used for under $200, and they will take almost anything.

.357mag from a rifle pushes pretty good numbers, and will kill all kinds of stuff, you might consider a .357 lever gun. get a .357 revolver to match, and you can bang .38 special loads out of it for practice or smaller critters.

[ACP230]

The M15 can be useful while you are en route to the shotgun.
It's easier to wear a belt gun while you work, or wander around, than to sling a shotgun.
In town and out I carry a Smith M649 and feel fairly well armed.

[Brian Dale]

Another 870 fan here, and milsurp rifles are great, and lever rifles are pretty, and fast-handling, and functional. If it were me, I'd get the 870 first, but pick what's best for you.

Keep your Model 15, too.

You have to have a .22 rifle. Not having a .22 rifle out in the country is like ... not having tires on your car? Not owning a shovel or a garden hose? Not having a frying pan? Not having a dog? Help me out here, folks. :)

You could try a Marlin Model 39 (classy) or Model 60 (functional and everybody's got one), Ruger 10/22 (extremely popular, and there's a lot of aftermarket stuff for them); one of my favorites is an old Remington single-shot from the 1930s. Go used, and pick what you like. They all work.

And jamz: I love that song. Haven't heard it in years.

[jojosdad]

Now, for the bear, if you're worried about that... milsurps! Brenneke or other slugs are fine bear medicine, too.

Gonna throw away your TV too?

[Remington788]

Go with the 870 and get a sidesaddle shell carrier for it and have three slugs and three buckshot rounds in it so you can deal with any univited four or two legged critters.

[Rickstir]

Around our farm, most of our "criter defense" is at night. Coons, and possums like to get into the sweet corn or mess with the chickens at night, so this is another vote for a shotgun. You can "ramp up" to the situation with various shot sizes and slugs.

I always have a pistol on me when I am working or playing around the farm. So keep your M15 for sure. You can get shot shells for your pistol which makes them excellent snake guns. A 22 rifle will always come in handy, get a good one with a scope.

You gonna hunt those deer? If so you could use your shotgun for some close-in shots or move up to a deer rifle.

We moved from the city to the country 9 years ago, and we love it.

[Phil Ca]

For sure you should keep the Model 15 and even add a .357 revolver. The suggestion to obtain a .357 carbine is a good one. You will need a .22 as well. When I visited relatives and their neighbors in Wyoming they always had a .22 rifle near the kitchen door in case of critters coming for the chickens.

A 12 gauge shotgun will be indespensible and you can have different loeads for different reasons from No. 7 and 1/2 through 00 Buck to 7/8th oz. slugs. There are also the special loads that are used to scare birds off of runways. There is a place in Oregon iirc that carries some 'extreme' lods that are not legal in some states. You would have to check that out for yourself.


Other things to consider before moving to the country, and I am sure you must have done some of this already, but I'll list them anyway.

Terrain: Make sure you are not in a flood plain. Ask around and go to the county extension agent or geological engineer and check. Go to the library and look at old newspapers.

Is there a year-around creek that runs through or near the property? Where is it in reference to your living space?

Is there a dam upstream of your potential home? What is the amount and force of water that could be loosed downstream if the dam failed?

Weather Extremes: Will you have warm or HOT simmers? Cold or VERY COLD winters? Rain or drought?

Industry and nuisance factor: Is there an abbatoir or rendering plant or tannery in the area? The smell and potential toxics from these places is an important consideration.

Is there an elecric substation in the area? You do not want it to be too close. Also having large power distibution towers running over or near your property is not good.

Is there any industry or warehouse distribution business nearby? You would not want to be to close to something like that.

Are there any towns or cities with freeways within a certain limit of your proposed area? You would want to check with the Chamber of Commerce to see if any business or manufacturing is being urged to locate there.

Schools and educational institutions: Your tax base will in some cases eat you up to maintain and build more schools. Education is important and if there is a JC within a reasonable distance you will be able to attend classes of interest there.

Crime Stats: Check with the local PD and SO as to what is perceived to be the major crime threat in the area you plan to move to. In our conty here in California we have an extimated 10,000 gang members ranging from age 11 to mid 20's. drive by shootings have happened in some rural small towns.

Are there problems with meth-labs in the area? When we lived 5 miles from here in nice area with families and homes ranging from 250K and up, there was a meth lab in a house two blocks away that blew up and the roof and foundation were heavily damaged beyond repair.

Are there any home-invasion- robberies in the area? If you have any Asian people from Cambodia, Laos or any Hmong you can expect that. They prey mostly on their own people including thier familys. This is by kids belonging to gangs.

Language: Is Spanish the second language in the area? Here we have Spanish, Cambodian, Lao, Hmong, Assyrian, Portugese, French and German and Norwegian. As well as smaller numbers of Tagalog and Samoan and some African languages.

There are several good web-sites to use for on-line research. One is the Weather Underground and some on demographics are filled with more info than a body can assimilate.

If you buy a couple of the firearms before you go you should be able to maintain a lower profile than going into town and buying several guns in the first three months. If you are moving across state lines that may make things different. Here in the PRK you are supposed to register firearms when you move into the state. I am not sure of the time element but it is probably within the first 90 days or less.

CCW: Do you have a CCW now? Will you be able to obtain one at the new location? If you decide to get one you may find that different locations have different rules. My being an ex federal officer and a reserve cop was not reason enough in the new county. The issuing office gave me a nudge in the proper direction to obtain one here.

Tactical Considerations: Try to choose a certain number of tactical items in your search for a new place to live. You might want to be back from the highway so as to keep casual visitors from your door. Keep your doors locked in any case. Have a spare key in a hidden spot. Keep your windows locked when not in open position. Do not have shrubbery to close to the house so as to provide cover for the baddies. Costco sells a rechargable spotlight with 1.5 Million CP for a reasonable price.

Keep all vehicles locked when not in use. Get a BIG DOG or at least a small yapping dog. Keep a pair of binoculars handy to observe approaching people, paying attention to their eyes, hands and carried items. have a plan worked out with family members for various scenarios. Do it w/o creating fear and panic.

If you have kids tell them that they should never discuss family and preps to friends or strangers. Do not talk about firearms, security measures, the BOB in the closet, food storage, money or anything that is better kept in the family. If kids are small you may have to disuss these things out of their hearing. THINK OUTSIDE THE BOX!

Medical Care and HMO's: Do you belong to a HMO and if so is there a facility near by say within 30 minutes? Check the quality of hospitals and urgent care facilities are near. Don't forget the dental side of medical care as that is very important.

Insurance: Check on insurance costs for property, automobiles, and flood or EQ insurance. Here in California we are always concerned with the possibility of an EQ. If your area is in "tornado alley", plan accordingly.

If anyone else can add to the list of things to check on before a major move feel free to chime in. A move from city to country is a big move. When we moved from the SF area to Napa Valley in 1977 it was a big change. I commuted for 17 years, 150 miles round trip. Now we left the country to a large town or small city and that is a big difference, plus we are now at retirement age.

Lots of luck on your move.

Phil Ca

[Universal]

Thank you for all your advice. I am keeping the model 15 regardless but I am thinking I will add a Remington 870 in the near future.

[Ryan in the House]

Gonna eat a lot of peaches?

Damnit...

I was gonna say that.

:)

[jojosdad]

Phil Ca - you wrote:
Language: Is Spanish the second language in the area? Here we have Spanish, Cambodian, Lao, Hmong, Assyrian, Portugese, French and German and Norwegian. As well as smaller numbers of Tagalog and Samoan and some African languages.
What bearing does this have on moving to the country?

[Highland Ranger]

44 mag handgun and 44 mag lever action rifle . . . . old but proven combo . . . . . . same ammo!

[Bravo11]

Another vote for a 12ga shotgun as being the first aquisition. After that I'd have to say a .22LR. If your going to live in the country where you can shoot anytime then a .22 is great. Next, I'd look at an SKS, great gun for a great price. If you plan on hunting those deer forget the SKS and go ahead and get a real deer rifle.

[SLCDave]

a .357 revolver/lever action combo would serve you well. So would the 870.

Peaches come from a can,
they were put there by a man
In a factory downtown

Then, when the cans are empty, you have something to practice shooting.

[Phil Ca]

jjojosdad: In answer to your question about what do those various languages have to do with moving to the country, I will cite some examples.

First of all, I am in favor of legitimate emigration to the USA. I only wish that other races and cultures would make it a priority to learn the English language. Speaking the native language at home is fine. My German great-grandfather declared that the family would only speak German at home during chore time on the farm. This was during WW1 and they were in Texas. Our family currently has members that speak English as the base language, but also french, German, Spanish, Tagalog and even some Italian and other minor languages thrown in. We have a lot of fun and to have two grandkids conversing in both French and Spanish and English, and even joking is something to hear. Especially since they live about 3000 miles apart and only see each other a couple times a year.

If you move into an area where there are a lot of languages in use, particularly from third world areas where the living is hard and the people are very poor, you can expect the following: The hospitals will be hard pressed to keep up with the number of non-paying patients that use the ER as a regular out-patient visit. In LA County there are 6 ER's that have had to close for lack of funds. Ambulance personell in some areas have to "shop' by radio to find an ER that will take some accident victims. If you are moving to a country area the ER might be a lifeline and you do not want it closed off for lack of funds.

Another consideration is this. What is the county welfare budget and what is being done to control the outflow of funds? I am sure nobody wants to see anyone suffer but the recipients should not be there for life and raise up a passel of kids that see welfare as a way of life. I lived and worked in the SF Bay Area too many years and have seen all sorts of scams. When people live off the dole and those that are part of the tax-paying end of things see thier hard-earned monies going to feed strapping teen-agers that would rather rob people than work, well I am sure you get the picture.

In Oregon for instance there are times of the year that mushrooms are plentiful and people used to be able to pick in relative peace. Now there are actual "mushroom wars" that involve locals and new Asian immigrants. firearms are used on occasion.

if you pay attention to the ways our esteemed government places people that are new to the country you will see there is little regard to the feelings and needs of the established local people. Why did 2000 or more Somalies get placed in Maine? why are they placing some 5000 Islamic peoples from some former area of the USSR near Philadelphia? All promised medical and furniture aand monetery benefits. Why were a number of Russian Jews located to the Denver area with Social Security benefits that they had not earned?


There are some cultures that have nothing against eating dog meat either. In San Jose, California the pound people saw the same family come in and adopt a dog several times in a year. They did some checking and found out that the dogs were for dinner on special occasions. If you have one or more dogs as pets, you might not want to see them in somebodies stewpot! When I was in the PI an officer who lived off base came up missing his German Shepherd. One evening while walking around he passed a courtyard and saw a hide stretched on a frame to dry. It was his dog.

In this area we have some 20,000 Assyrian people that for the most part left Iraq to get away from Saddam's henchmen, who were persecuting non-islamic people in Iraq. I have talked with a number of them and they are extremely greatful to be here. They have their own stores, TV and radio station and cultural center. (Which flies the Stars and Stripes as well as the Assyrian flag.)

The fact that we have these former Iraqi citizens can also give one pause to wonder if any of them, even a handful , are here as 'fifth column" operatives??? If so what kind of mayhem might be expected somewhere down the road??? Most are peaceful people and even Christian in faith, but there could be a few that are just biding their time, lost in the crowd so to speak.

I hope I have explained why it is important to consider these things before moving to any area, rural or metro. If you have additional questions I welcome them and be glad to offer my thoughts on them. I am by no means the end-all, be-all for answers but I have been around and have dealt with a lot of situations that I never in my life dreamed that I would have to.

Phil (still in) Ca

:)

[gaston_45]

Hey Giga, deer do attack. I was working on the ambulance when we got called for just that. 60 year old lady out walking the dog when the DOE attacked both her and the dog, she spent several months in the hospital for that one.

A shotgun is good but you should really consider a rifle too. The same caliber for rifle and pistol is also a good idea economically and for fast reloading with little thought needed. I think 45 colt would be a good caliber for this.

Of course if you get a S&W 500 you wouldn't need the rifle as that thing has more muzzle energy then most non magnum rifles (500 has 2600 ftlbs, 308 firing a 150 grn has 2649). And just think, if the bad guy took it away from you he would probably not be able to hold it up and the first shot he took with it would likely be his last.