Which is better, CZ-PCR, CZ-PO1 or CZ-75 Compact?


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albanian
November 7, 2004, 07:25 PM
Which is the most confortable and lightest of these? Which makes the best CCW? I think I picked up a CZ-PCR and I found it was nice, not sure about the other two.


Can someone post pics of the three pistols to compare?

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Marshall
November 7, 2004, 07:46 PM
Here's a decent thread from TFL. You can also go to Hakans site and see some good PICS!


CZ PCR thread (http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=147137)

Mulliga
November 7, 2004, 09:14 PM
Lightest will be the alloy-framed pistols, PCR and PO1. They are pretty similar to each other - I'd jump on a good deal on either.

The CZ-75 Compact is only slightly smaller and slightly lighter than a regular CZ-75B in comparison. Having carried the full size CZ-75B around the house, I recommend the alloy-framed pistols :) - YMMV, though.

TomN
November 7, 2004, 09:38 PM
If you want an alloy framed pistol, go with either the PCR or P-01. If you want rails go with the P-01. If not then the PCR.

Also something to consider is that that P-01 has passed the NATO testing and is now approved. You can learn more here: http://www.cz-usa.com/press.releases.php?msgid=37

HD
November 8, 2004, 07:50 AM
Return to the previous list
CZ P-01 gets NATO approval. The next Generation of perfect pistols
2003-02-01 09:24:31

The P-01 is now a NATO classified pistol and issued the NATO stock number NSN 1005-16-000-8619.

The CZ P-01 is the culmination of several years of exhaustive design and testing. Ceska Zbrojovka has always had some of the most rigorous testing requirements in the world but, the Czech National police has required that they go even further, the testing regiment for this new pistol was the most demanding anyone has ever encountered. There are almost 20 specific requirements covering everything from accuracy to interchangability, from safety to reliability/durability and everything in between.

The pistol: The CZ P-01 is a Gen 3 pistol that began as a requirement for a lightweight compact pistol that will deliver the accuracy and durability of a full size, full weight pistol. This was no small task, several manufacturers declined to even start the project.

The first thing you notice about this pistol is the M3 light rail on the frame, a first for CZ, the alloy frame is a little wider at the top than a steel CZ 75. This adds strength and rigidity for mounting the light and increasing the accuracy and service life of the pistol. The P-01 also sports enhanced controls as well as a drop free magazine and a lanyard loop.

The pistol was required to pass a wide variety of tests:

The police required that the pistol ensure the highest level of comfort, an extended slide release was added as well as an extended magazine release and the trigger was reshaped to give a more consistent pull throughout the trigger stroke.

The pistol must be 100% reliable in extreme conditions, the following is a list of some of the minimum requirements.

Must be able to complete the following without failure:

4000 dry firings
3000 De-cockings
Operator level disassembly 1350 times with out ware or damage to components.
Complete disassembly 150 times, this is all the way down, pins, springs etc.
100% interchangability, any number of pistols randomly selected, disassembled, parts mixed and reassembled with no failures of any kind including loss of accuracy.


Safety requirements:

Drop test
1.5 meter (4.9”) drop test, this is done 54 times with the pistol loaded (blank) and the hammer cocked. Dropping the pistol on the butt, the muzzle, back of the slide, sides of the gun, top of the slide, in essence, any angle that you could drop the gun from. This is done on concrete and 0 failures are allowed! A failure is the gun firing.

3meter drop (9.8”) 5 times with the pistol loaded (blank) and the hammer cocked, This is done on concrete and 0 failures are allowed! A failure is the gun firing.

After these tests are complete the gun must fire without service.

The factory contracted an independent lab to do additional testing on guns that previously passed the drop tests. These pistol were dropped an additional 352 times without failure.

The pistol must also complete an environmental conditions test:
This means cold, heat, dust/sand and mud.
The pistol must fire after being frozen for 24 hours at –35C (-36F).
The pistol must fire after being heated for 24 hours at 70C (126F)
The pistol must fire after being submerged in mud, sand and combinations including being stripped of oil then completing the sand and mud tests again.

Service life:
The service life requirement from the Czech police was 15,000 rounds of +P ammo!
The pistol will exceed 30,000 rounds with ball 9mm.

Reliability:
The reliability requirements for the P-01 pistol are 99.8%, that’s a .2% failure rate.
This equals 20 stoppages in 10,000 rounds or 500 “Mean Rounds Between Failure” (MRBF)
During testing, the average number of stoppages was only 7 per 15,000 rounds fired, this is a .05% failure rate, a MRBF rate of 2142 rounds! Over 4 time the minimum acceptable requirement.
The U.S. Army MRBF requirement is 495 rounds for 9mm pistols with 115 grain Ball ammunition.

Heritage:
The P-01 is based on the CZ 75, the most used pistol in the world. Over 60 countries use it as the standard side arm of their Armies, National police forces, National security agencies or other Law enforcement organizations. No other pistol can make this claim.

Walt Sherrill
November 8, 2004, 08:19 AM
It may boil down to two features: weight and decocker.

The PCR and the P-01 are both alloy-framed guns, and slightly lighter. Both are made with decockers, so you can't carry "cocked and locked."

The Compact is essentially the same gun with a steel frame, and no decocker, so you CAN do "cocked and locked" -- my preference. (I have a Compact and several other CZs and "clones.")

If you want the light rail, do the P-01. Holsters will be a little harder to find. If you want cocked and locked, do the Compact.

It was noted, above, that the 75 Compact is only slightly smaller than the full-size 75B. True, but its the same size as the P-01 and PCR (although the P-01 has a wide frame at the front.)

Black Snowman
November 8, 2004, 02:48 PM
I prefer cocked and locked and .40 S&W so the alloy frames were out for me except for the RAMI. It is a little hard to hold for some people but I do well with it. While I was at the store picking it up they had the 85 Compact in stock so I ended up getting one of those on credit because I didn't know how long they'd be around. It's heavy but the extra nose weight makes it shoot like a full size 9mm.

I may still get a PCR for a lighter and slightly slimmer carry gun even though it won't do C&L but when I can't / don't carry the 85 Compact I'll probably have the RAMI on me. FYI Two full size mags ballance the weight of a RAMI about perfectly.

Now, if we can just get that CCW legislation passed this go-around :banghead:

clipse
November 8, 2004, 03:19 PM
I would love to see CZ come out with a alloy gun with a manual safety.

clipse

NMshooter
November 8, 2004, 04:31 PM
CZ-75 compact. :D

Litlman
November 8, 2004, 05:42 PM
I don't have it long but, I like it. When cash permits I will get a good rig for it and some night sights. Good Luck.

stormspotter
November 9, 2004, 10:26 PM
I purchased have owned all three and I now only have the Compact. I like the weight in my hand and not higher up in the slide area. I get back on target faster with the Compact, and it shoots Win 127 gr +P+ into 1 1/4 inch groups at 12 yards off hand. It has been converted to single action, bought it on the high road, and it fits right in with my 1911's. It has also been graced with a set of Hakans.

Just my two cents worth.

stormspotter

PCRCCW
November 10, 2004, 12:02 PM
Ive had 3 Compact, 3 PCRs and a PO1/PCR Hybrid.........all are worthy.
In all honesty they are all quite similar. It seriously just depends on what you want in the features...........
The Compact can be carried Cond 1 and is the heaviest.....its has no CCW friendly bells and whistles.......
The PCR is the same size as the Compact and has a narrower muzzle/frame than the PO1, so its better to carry IWB.....Its also has more CCW friendly features.....frame serrations, double slide serrations, ext. mag release, bevelled mag well etc..........all stock from the factory.
The PO1 is just the same gun (Ya, I know about all of the testing, NATO bla bla bla) with minor improvements and a light dihickey.......
The thicker muzzle makes it a little less IWB friendly..............
From there......just get the one that works for you..........
Shoot well..................

rbernie
November 10, 2004, 02:01 PM
I would love to see CZ come out with a alloy gun with a manual safety. According to Mike @ CZ, he can convert a PCR to manual safety for about $300.

Craig M. Arnold
November 10, 2004, 11:24 PM
I own a bunch of CZ pistols and I like them all. I carry either a PCR or a RAMI (9MM). The PCR is my favorite over all carry gun.

Here is a picture of some of my compact and sub-compact CZs to compare size. The top row from left to right is an 83 in 380acp and a 75B Compact. The second row is two RAMIs, both cambered in 9MM. The third row is two P01s and the bottom row is two PCRs.

Best regards.

http://www.hunt101.com/img/197472.jpg

Dave Williams
November 11, 2004, 12:13 AM
I've shot the P01 and it's a great gun. I think the NATO testing is a great selling point for them.

Dave Williams

Maxer51tx
November 12, 2004, 02:07 PM
As you can tell from the replies so far, none of the three is really superior to the other two. But...

If you want C&L, the Compact is the only option.

If you want a light rail, the PO1 is the only choice.

If you must have light weight, then it'll have be PO1 or PCR.

I ended up buying a PO1 and am happy with it. No, I didn't need a light rail. I bought the PO1 because I think it looks better than the PCR. Concerning some of the other commnets about it: it carries just fine. The rail is not a significant impediment. Several companies make holsters for it, so that's not a problem either.

dairycreek
November 12, 2004, 05:59 PM
I've shot the P01 and it's a great gun. I think the NATO testing is a great selling point for them
I actually own several CZ's with the P-01 being my favorite. All are excellent guns but the point made about the NATO testing sold me on the P-01. It is a very rugged, reliable pistol. Good shooting;)

1911 TERRY
November 12, 2004, 11:27 PM
I'd wait till the SP-01 comes out. I've heard it will be available in .40 and 9mm. With a safety for cocked and locked or with decocker. can't wait.

VG
November 13, 2004, 06:07 PM
Which is the most confortable and lightest of these? Which makes the best CCW? I think I picked up a CZ-PCR and I found it was nice, not sure about the other two.
Can someone post pics of the three pistols to compare?Another question - why would anyone buy one of these over a S&W 3913?

nonquixote
November 13, 2004, 07:12 PM
Another question - why would anyone buy one of these over a S&W 3913?
Ummm, because they look better? Because they prefer the CZs lower bore axis, frame mounted safety and grip ergonomics? Why does anyone prefer one thing over another?

Nonq

Walt Sherrill
November 13, 2004, 07:37 PM
Why would anyone buy one of these over a S&W 3913? I can think of several reasons:

1) Magazine magazine capacity. My carry gun, a CZ-75B Compact holds 14 rounds, and its about the same size as your 3913. A 3913 holds 7 rounds, right?

2) because, for most people, the CZ just "points" better and feels better in their hand.

3) And recoils less because of a lower bore axis.

And, 4) because not everybody has had, as you seem to feel you have had, a bad experience with their CZs.

I've had several S&W autos (52-2, 669, a C&S 4006, 4506, and 1076, and still have a 4043); they're fine guns. The 52-2 was a WONDERFUL gun. But, for every day use and "carry," I prefer CZs. (I also like Glocks.)

I remember from exchanges with you a couple of years ago (on the CZ-Forum?), that you didn't like yours. (An 85 Combat, right?) You had it tuned by Teddy Jacobs, and said that Teddy diddn't like CZs, either. That seemed to put the final nail in the coffin, for you. That, and the fact that you couldn't get most of your money out of it when you tried to sell it.

(That's life: I sold the very nice Cylinder & Slide-tuned 4006 mentioned above and didn't get my money out of it, either. That's what happens when you have a "name" gunsmith work done on your guns and later sell them. Few others appreciate the value you've added.)

Why not sell the one you've got -- take a loss -- and just put your CZ experience behind you? Then you can start extolling the virtues of the 3913 to others, without having to constantly compare it to what you clearly feel is an inferior weapon.

George Hill
November 13, 2004, 08:21 PM
5) CZ never tried selling out the American Gun Owner.
:scrutiny:

Dave Williams
November 13, 2004, 11:30 PM
Could the 3913 pass that NATO test?

For that matter, what handguns are rated as having passed that test? Is there a list somewhere?

Dave Williams

PCRCCW
November 14, 2004, 08:53 PM
Ill jump in here....3rd gen S&W's are very good guns....for reliability and function theyre great. Ive owned plenty just like Walt. Id say a 3913 is a great carry gun.....but Ive got to agree with Walt and George on this one.

CZ Compacts are just about the best compromise of size, accuracy, reliability, ergonomics, weight and capacity out there.....
The closest comparison would be a 229 Sig........Shoot well.

Zardoz
November 14, 2004, 10:35 PM
5) CZ never tried selling out the American Gun Owner.
:scrutiny:

Oh yeah? S&W's service is head and shoulders above CZ's And they were one of the first to offer HC mags to replace the low caps bought around and before the sunset. I think someone is living in the past.

That said, the S&W auto's have a high axis (like Sigs) and generally have crappy triggers and I'd take a CZ any day (but would hope I don't nead "service") :scrutiny:

Walt Sherrill
November 14, 2004, 10:43 PM
Head and Shoulders above CZ's?

The only two gun companies that I've done business with that are better than CZ (talking about service) are RUGER and Kel-Tec.

(And that has proved to be calls for information and parts I thought I wanted -- as I've never really had anything break on any of them due to gun/design issues, except an extractor on a MKII Target Competition. I sent hte BOLT to Ruger, and they claimed they had not received it. But, thankfully, UPS had a signature of the person who signed for it upon delivery. Ruger was real apologetic and sent me a new bolt and extractor...)

Zardoz
November 14, 2004, 10:54 PM
I'm a dealer and HAVE sent guns back to most manufacturures, CZ's "service" is near the bottom rung with Browning. :cool: As a matter of fact we've had a CZ pistol there for 4 weeks and I'll bet it comes back with issues!

I do like most CZ products but we had to drop them for sale and will only order them on request. Most of the other companies have been great about fixing defective products and are swift about it.

Black Snowman
November 15, 2004, 12:54 PM
Zardoz, sad to hear about your troubles with CZ USA but, unfortunately, as good of a guy as Mike is (their gunsmith) he's still just one guy and backlogs are common.

The fact that one guy can (usually) handle all of their warranty work plus paid custom work, does speak highly of the quality and design of the weapons. Sure they don't sell the volume that other companies do but they do what they can to maximize value to their customers, and service times are one place where they make sacrifices to keep prices down.

Browning's service is no suprise since they don't actually make any weapons themselves. FN being their primary supplier IIRC. Adding another party to the mix always slows things down.

VG
November 15, 2004, 08:07 PM
Why would anyone buy one of these over a S&W 3913? I can think of several reasons:

1) Magazine magazine capacity. My carry gun, a CZ-75B Compact holds 14 rounds, and its about the same size as your 3913. A 3913 holds 7 rounds, right?

2) because, for most people, the CZ just "points" better and feels better in their hand.

3) And recoils less because of a lower bore axis.

And, 4) because not everybody has had, as you seem to feel you have had, a bad experience with their CZs.

/snipped/

Why not sell the one you've got -- take a loss -- and just put your CZ experience behind you? Then you can start extolling the virtues of the 3913 to others, without having to constantly compare it to what you clearly feel is an inferior weapon.

I tried to sell it and the only people who wanted to buy it either wanted to trade even more obscure weapons for it, or wanted me to finance it! It just wasn't worth the trouble of dealing with them. I do shoot it now and again. I never found a local buyer even for what I paid for it - $375.

The S&W's have many choices of holsters, sights, and other accessories available; are supported by most dealers and gunsmiths; have excellent fit and finish for a popularly-priced handgun; and are backed up by Smith & Wesson's exceptional factory service, rivaled only by Sigarms.

Mike is a nice fellow and CZ USA does try pretty hard. When the ambidextrous safety broke off on my long-off-warranty CZ85C, they did the gunsmithing work to fit the new-style safety (which had a thicker sleeve to solve this breakage problem, and thus required a larger hole) for free, less shipping, in under a month. But to compare one gunsmith to S&W's factory service department is just plain silly.

Walt Sherrill
November 15, 2004, 08:31 PM
You've clearly had a long hard ride with your gun...

I was one of the guys who offered to buy your gun from you, for the price you were asking, but didn't have the cash immediately to hand. (And I simply don't BORROW to buy toys.) I was willing to send you some money up front and let you HOLD the gun until it was paid for, but you found a local buyer -- who later backed out. That's not financing the sale -- that's time payment. <grin>

Among other guns, I have an 85 Combat, a 75B SA that has been touched by a gifted gunsmith (before I bought it), a pre-B CZ-75, a CZ-75 Compact, a custom AT-84S (worked on by Boland before he retired), and a choice older (1968) Browning High Power.

I benched them all at 20 yards, and they all shoot so close that I can only attribute the differences to shooter error; I get different results each time I try it -- its more me than the guns. I have a Glock 34 that shoots right with them. The 75B SA is the EASIEST to shoot well rapidly, but the Combat is close. For IDPA, I use the 85 Combat and the Glock 34 most often.

I also had a S&W 52-2 (sold recently) and a SIG P-210-6. Exceptionally accurate guns. But out to 20 yards, there wasn't enough difference between any of them to really matter to me and my old eyes, unless I was shooting from a bench. Beyond 20 yards, the P-210-6 and 52-2 made pinging plates a bit easier, and the better sights on the 52-2 was a noticeable plus.

Sounds like you've got a "runt" of the litter.

And I'm finding it easier, now, to find stuff for CZs than for the single-stack S&W semi-autos. They're starting to get a CZ customer base built up.

armoredman
November 15, 2004, 08:48 PM
Well, anyone here who doesn't know my opinion on CZ pistols doesn't read my posts!<grin>! I love my P01 - it is my everyay all day gun. I had Smith autos as well, but the high bore axis and grip did not fit right. The CZ grips fit me like a custom fitted glove. I look forward to the full size SP01 with 18 round mag as a full size duty pistol, as well.

kerstingm
January 21, 2011, 07:52 PM
I have a CZ 75B and I just got the 75D PCR Compact. I can not say enough good things about my CZ's, they just eat anything I put through them, they are scary accurate and I can carry my compact all day and it's so comfortable I almost forget I have it on. To me CZ makes one of the best pistols out there.

The Lone Haranguer
January 21, 2011, 08:07 PM
The PCR is the lightest, followed by the P-01 (albeit by a small margin), and the heaviest is the 75 Compact as it is all steel while the others have aluminum frames. I own a PCR myself and am very pleased with it.

kerstingm
January 21, 2011, 08:21 PM
If I found the PCR months ago I have three other pistols right now that I probably wouldn't own. Everybody that I know that knows anything about CZ's love them. I own, Sigs, Beretta, and Glock. Cz is by far my favorite.
I want to get a competition trigger on my full size 75B. I am having a little trouble trying to find a gunsmith who can do the wor, I'm trying not have to ship it back to CZ.

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