[Fiero]

Today I gave my local gun shop guy a hard time for continuing to carry, and offer the only discounted sales prices on Wolf .223 ammunition. Was I too hard on the guy for making my point?

This ammo seems to be pure garbage. The steel case's laquer finish goes gummy in the chamber and you are guaranteed a stuck case if you use this stuff in a semi-auto and the barrel is permitted to heat up. Seems to be a fatal flaw that any self respecting gun shop owner would keep from customers. That is, unless you have the motive to sabbotage a shooting session. Could ANYONE imagine using this ammo in a self-defense situation? How about even in a gun you care about. The first time I used it I had to use a steel cleaning rod and bang it against a tree with the rod in the bore to dislodge the stuck case in one of my AR's.

Now, I hear rumors that Wolf has changed their ways. If so, why is it not publicized? Or is it really just a rumor? You would think that if Wolf is no longer coating their ammo with "glue", then they would at least add "new and improved" to their packaging. Right?


-Fiero-

[Bravo11]

My SKS loves Wolf ammo.

[fletcher]

My SKS loves Wolf ammo.

Ditto. Haven't had any misfires with Wolf on my SKS (put ~800 rounds of it through), and it shoots just fine.

[wasrjoe]

Russian ammo for Russian guns, man. They did change the coating, too. Now it's a grey polymer coating.

[Destructo6]

My Eagle CAR, SKS, AK, Makarov, and M44 all like Wolf.

[Kobun]

Fiero, Wolf now coats the steel cases with a heat resistant polymer.
Sure, there is still laquerd cases out in the market, but if it bothers you don't buy it.
Just don't go around and spread rumors. Try for yourself first.

I shoot thousands of rounds of 9mm and 223 Wolf through my guns. Thus far I've had one missfire.
Some say the steel cases are hard on the chamber, but check for yourself just how hard the steel is. Its not much harder than most brass cases.

[Crownvicman]

My Saiga and my Makarov eat Wolf ammo like it was candy. It works well in Commie guns. But Western guns may be a little too tight to run on it for long. I would not call Wolf ammo garbage, though.

[dave3006]

Garbage? Nope. Match grade? Nah.

5000 rounds through my Mini-14 without one malfunction. Good enough for me.

[R.H. Lee]

My SKS's work flawlessly with Wolf, AND, I don't have to pick up the empties. :D

[goon]

I use Wolf in my AK and it runs just fine. I have also been using Ulyanovsk since Wolf quit putting sealant on the case mouths.
My general rule is that if it is a gun that was made to use that type of ammo (AK, SKS, Makarov) I use that type of ammo.
If I am using something like a modern sporting rifle or my SIG, I use good brass cased stuff (I like S&B for blasting ammo but lately I have been using Win White box).

It depends on the gun.

[Bigjake]

My SAR1 love Wolf ammo, and i've fired pry 4k rnds through it without a hickup, or a major cleaning

[Wildalaska]

Wolf ammo is a gunsmiths dream

Use at your own risk

WildbangbangfizzAlaska

[Shane333]

My Saiga eats it like it can't get enough. My neighbor puts enough Wolf ammo through his AR15 to choke an elephant, and he doesn't have any complaints about it.

[CZ52GUY]

http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=16&t=177728

Bottom line, it appears that the vast majority of folks use it without issues although some have had serious issues and refuse to feed it to their firearms.

The switch from Laquer to Polymer also makes the Wolf decision a little more complicated. My AR seems to shoot it just fine, although I doubt I'll feed it a steady diet...

Safe shooting,

CZ52'

[Scottmkiv]

It runs just fine in my Makarov.

[Fiero]

Kobun,

I was not trying to spread a rumor, but trying to dispel one to ascertain fact from previous first hand knowledge, which may have changed.

I would never experiment further with their ammo on my valuable weapons unless I know that the problem is now fixed.

From the very helpful information you all have provided, and whch I now have researched, I will now give Wolf a second chance in my guns. All along I was hoping that Wolf would indeed make the necessary changes so that this relatively inexpensive ammunition could offer me an advantage.

Thank you all for your replies. I think that not only are they helpful to me, but to others in the same or similar situation.

I bought some Olympic ammo today. I will buy some Wolf tomorrow, and as soon as I am able, I will see if Wolf is a good for me, as it seems most of you have found it.

BTW, I have never had a problem with the Wolf 7.62 x 39 stuff I have put into my SKS's and my AK Variants. My only problem, and question had to do with the .223 variety that I intend to use in my AR's and Mini 14's(in which I did have previous problems) That is no rumor. :)

Thanks Again.

-Fiero-


:)

[Dr.Rob]

Wolf 30-06 was horrible. I bought a hundred rounds or so to plink with from my old Springfield 03-a3... extreme variances in accuracy. Don't recall the cases sticking thought they were tight on the stripper clips.

I won't be buying any more of that.

I know a lot of guys that run Wolf or Norinco through their Maks, SKS and M-44s, but I was pretty dissapointed to say the least.

[benEzra]

Four rounds of Wolf 7.62x54 148-grain FMJ went into 1-3/8" at 100 yards from the bench. Good stuff.

I like the new polymer-coated 7.62x39 as well.

[SilentScream]

my AR has had a steady diet of it for the past few years, without a single Malf.
and the new polymer coated cases are really slick.
-Jesse

[salthouse]

I use the 45 ACP in my Ruger P90. No problems.

[hksw]

Haven't had any problems with 9mm, .45ACP, or 5.56mm (AR).

[Feanaro]

I didn't think it was junk to begin with. But then again I fed it to an SKS. But it does indeed use a new coating. The old casings were a greenish brown, the new are a light grey. It's still not the most accurate ammo around though.

[Dave Markowitz]

Wolf 7.62x39 runs fine in my SKS and AK. My Mini-14 eats Wolf .223 like candy, although my Colt AR-15 gave me a few bolt-over-base FTFs with it. Accuracy of these two calibers is nothing to shout about, though, and the .223 is noticeably downloaded compared with Federal or Winchester.

My Springfield M1911 likes Wolf .45 ACP, and it's as accurate in my gun as WWB.

[Mulliga]

Reliable in my experience (many members of our club shoot it, too), but poor accuracy. Great for plinking.

[student]

If ammo like Wolf is going to mess up your gun (barring any rare kabooms from double loads or something extreme like that), I think you had better re-evaluate the reliability of your weapons platform. Sure it is not super accurate and may run dirty, but it should be able to throw lead downrange without fail and keep it in a reasonable target area. I have experienced a Colt H-bar match AR-15 that is capable of spewing wolf .223 at a steady rate, kind of like drinking bud light out of a wine glass, but it works.

[BamBam-31]

Four rounds of Wolf 7.62x54 148-grain FMJ went into 1-3/8" at 100 yards from the bench. Good stuff.

Out of an M39, right? I've had similar results with Wolf 7.62x54r out of mine. Also, Wolf .22lr is great stuff. Kinda waxy, but very accurate and reliable. I believe it's the only Wolf ammo made in Germany. Hmm.

[JohnBT]

Yep, the .22 ammo is made in the SK/Lapua/Nammo plant in the former E. Germany. I still like it, lube and all, but I liked it better when it was only $1.50 a box. JT

[Risasi]

I was just shooting my RRA Car-4 on Friday. I had several FTF's (maybe 7-8? Sorry wasn't counting) . Out of maybe 160 rounds I ran through the gun.

I didn't pay attention to it since I thought it was just the gun getting gunked up. Now I am guessing it was the ammo. I had noticed that Wolf was a different color. But didn't think anything of it. Generally I keep some around as it was good, cheap 223 plinking ammo. I'll have to re-think what I use for .223 now.

BTW: The old stuff worked fine and usually had about 2" MOA out of my RRA. And no jams. (Except for large amounts shot between cleanings, and my own fault.) I've shot maybe 2000-3000 rounds of it through my AR the past year or so.

[benEzra]

Out of an M39, right? I've had similar results with Wolf 7.62x54r out of mine. Also, Wolf .22lr is great stuff. Kinda waxy, but very accurate and reliable. I believe it's the only Wolf ammo made in Germany. Hmm.
Yes, a 1942 VKT M39, built on a 1905 hex receiver.

[Thrash1982]

A friend and I recently built AR-15's and split a case of the new poly coated wolf .223. So far it's been 100% reliable in both of our weapons and we recently bought more. He has also put close to 500 rounds of Wolf poly coat 9mm through his Glock 17 with no problems.

[ny32182]

I run Wolf 762x39 in my VEPR K, and never a problem, even with the gun smoking hot. I even leave a mag of it in the VEPR for serious purposes.... why not? I've never had a malfunction of any kind with it, and I don't see any "military" loads in that cartridge on the market anyway.

I wouldn't run Wolf in my ARs simply due to the reputation it has with causing problems in ARs, but a buddy of mine does and hasn't had any problems.

Handgun ammo: I can get brass cased plinking loads at walmart for the same or less money, so thats what I do.

I've never seen any of this polymer coated wolf in person. All of it around here still has the old green lacquer.

[RavenVT100]

I have found that Wolf is not generally all that compatible with the tightly tuned tolerances of the ARs. Russian guns, sure. The SKS that I have functions fine with Wolf; that's the ammunition it was designed to eat after all. For AR type rifles, I recommend Federal XM193.

[Master Blaster]

It works fine for me in my SAR-1 and my Saiga .223, I hear about the lacquer melting and gumming upp the chamber, and then the cases sticking.

I have never fired by gun fast enough for it to heat up to the point where the lacquer on the case melted. I would be more worried about the effect of this practice on the barrel and chamber's structural integrity.

Just how fast do you have to fire the AK to melt the lacquer, anyway?
For me it would be too fast to hit anything at 100+ yards, but I guess I like aimed fire.

[jefnvk]

Shoots great out of my SKS, and my Springfield GI.

[Darkmind]

My mossy 590A1 loves all the wolf 12 gage stuff.

I think i got a bad batch of 40 S&W, The spent powder was really gummy like, in my glock 23 causeing some FTEs and FTF.

[Fiero]

One thing I forgot to mention. My local indoor gun range FORBIDS Wolf ammo it it's facility. Big sign on counter. NO WOLF AMMO PERMITTED.

They attribute the sign to problems of reliability which leads to accidents, especially hangfires on revolvers. KABOOM.

[Pepe Domingo]

I liked it until I had a blow up with the 9mm stuff. I would imagine a rifle round kaboom would be much worse with the higher pressures and all.

I find the whole "I only use it in my Russian guns because that was what they were designed for" argument to be silly. I do not think Mr. Kalashnikov designed the AK-47 to handle many blow ups. The AK is cheap, the ammo is cheap and the lives of Ivan's soldiers were cheap (at least as far as the Kremlin was concerned).

For not really much more money you can run higher quality American, Italian, German, and South African brass through your weapons. Maybe my blow up was a once in a million fluke, but for an extra $20-$30 per K, I can never go back to the big, bad WOLF. I like my hands and eyes too much to wreck them by going the low bid route.

[Darkmind]

One thing I forgot to mention. My local indoor gun range FORBIDS Wolf ammo it it's facility. Big sign on counter. NO WOLF AMMO PERMITTED.

They attribute the sign to problems of reliability which leads to accidents, especially hangfires on revolvers. KABOOM.



Same hear, but my local range says that they dont let anybody shoot it because of the rounds haveing a steel core.

[Bravo11]

Pepe,
Not to put a price tag on safety but around here the other brands available for 7.62x39 are almost twice the price.

[13A]

Pepe,

As many others have said, I have no problem in my SKS. I value my body parts. However, I DO NOT fear using Wolf in my SKS.

I DO NOT shoot Wolf in my other guns. More because other ammo is better designed for them than for safety.

[Skofnung]

Russian rounds for Russian guns.

My Commie designed guns like it, though I only bought a few boxes for each just to try it out for future reference.

I've never used it in American arms, though I would like to try the match grade .22 LR stuff sometime soon.

A good friend of mine bought a half case of Wolf .45 ACP to put through his old Remington Rand 1911. The stuff stunk like burning feces and jammed quite often, like once every two to three magazines. It could have been a bad batch though...

I know this much: It will stay far away from my AR15's chamber. Too much of a crap shoot for such a gun if you ask me. YMMV on this one.

I would (and will) buy more in 7.62X39.

[Pepe Domingo]

I was forgetting the choices available for 7.62x39 seem to be basically Russian or very expensive Wichester brass. I am a .223/.308/9mm shooter only.

If forced to shoot steel cased ammo, I would choose Barnaul over Wolf. My very unscientific internet research seems to turn up less problems and complaining with that brand over Wolf. That may be due, however, to the greater availability of Wolf.

A blow up does wonders to change ammo attitudes. I was a card carrying Wolfman for a number of years. The way Wolf dealt with my wrecked weapon and subsequent refund/repairs was so smooth and problem free that it led me to believe that they have lots of experience with such matters.

Shoot the best ammo that you can afford.

[Feanaro]

The way Wolf dealt with my wrecked weapon and subsequent refund/repairs was so smooth and problem free that it led me to believe that they have lots of experience with such matters.

I'd hate to be one of the guys running Wolf. Do a good job fixing a problem and lose business for it. :uhoh: ;)

[Brad Johnson]

Originally Posted by Fiero
One thing I forgot to mention. My local indoor gun range FORBIDS Wolf ammo it it's facility. Big sign on counter. NO WOLF AMMO PERMITTED.

They attribute the sign to problems of reliability which leads to accidents, especially hangfires on revolvers. KABOOM.


Same hear, but my local range says that they dont let anybody shoot it because of the rounds haveing a steel core.

If they were honest they would tell you it's because they can't sell back the empties.

Brad

[The Grand Inquisitor]

This reminds me of the stink that came up over the Steyr M series autoloaders- everyone on the boards was buzzing about how they tended to have problems so deeply ingrained into the design that rounds exploded frequently while shooting. EVERYONE knew that these problems were to be had in the Steyr pistols - it was simply common knowledge.

Then people (mind you, those foolish enough to not accept the recieved wisdom of the web-boards) began to actually purchase and shoot the Steyr pistols, often, and, suddenly, people found a new pistol which actually functioned very well. Now, with thousands of Steyr M's across the country, how many posts were there from mangled owners warning others of the dangers of the Steyr M?

None.

Mind you, if you would like to poke around Glocktalk's Steyr board you can still fight the battle of the exploding M series, but people tend to dismiss the people who are still fighting that battle up ????creek without a paddle anyway - many because it has proven to be utter crap.

There is no such thing as "Russian ammo" for a "Russian gun". Wolf works fine in any firearm, I shoot it and all sorts of other rounds in my AR 180B and I have had no problems, although perhaps I am just foolish enough to actually clean my rifles after I shoot them.

Wolf isn't Match ammo, but it also certainly not garbage. Next time you buy some ammuntion, buy whatever you usually buy, but also grab a box of Wolf in whatever caliber you like and give it a try, you may just be in for a surprise.


PS - I don't want to bag on the boards here and elsewhere too much, I frequent these boards rather often, but sometimes it seems that folks get a bit too riled up over something and people begin to make judgements about products they have never tried.

[only1asterisk]

My guns cost too much money to run steel cased ammo of any stripe. Wolf is fine tooling around with a Siaga, but why wreck a firearms that cost several hundred dollars over a few pennies saved with cheap ammo?


David

[YammyMonkey]

I've fired about 400 rounds of the polymer stuff through my AR and another 600 or so through my 1911's with zero issues and no noticeable wear issues. Since I can buy 2 cases of the Wolf 5.56 for the price of one XM193 case, and save about $70 per case on the Wolf over Blazer in the .45's and money is a bit tight right now it makes sense for me.

BTW, I don't let rounds sit in the chamber of my guns, just in case. I would recomend buying a smaller (250rnds maybe) quantity and giving it a go before jumping into case quantities.

[Daniel T]

Wolf rifle ammo has always worked just fine for me. Inexpensive ammo is not always garbage.