Hillary in 2008? Why she can't win.


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Northslope Nimrod
November 8, 2004, 07:40 PM
If Hillary runs in 08 she will likely be the dem nominee. She will be nominated because dems still won't accept that their party has a problem and they will forget a lot in 4 years. She cannot win the presidency and here is why:
1) She is very well known. The best candidates are not well known....usually governor's. Her record as a liberal cannot be covered. She has made too many public speaches and taken too many stances. Kerry was even able to portray himself as a "good ol boy" to the politically ignorant. (ie: wearing that brown jacket everywhere and going hunting & playing various sports).
2) Too many people HATE her. Add the people that hate her to the people that hate her husband and you have a good chunk of votes.
3) Many may not vote for a woman. (Just a fact)
4) Finally, the biggest reason....is they cannot portray her as pro-gun. If they put her in a field with a shotgun.....the nation will laugh or throw up. Even Kerry was able to FOOL many gun owners. Trust me....not everybody pays attention to politics.....if they see him in camo on TV then he must be a hunter. Don't over estimate joe-public. ALSO, don't over estimate the power of the NRA and pro-gun voters. Why else did carry try...desperately...to show us his shotgun, camo jacket etc. Thus, because the camo jacket thing won't work with Hillary.....SHE CANNOT WIN! Think about this! It is absolutely the truth! We should support her nomination!

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Spot77
November 8, 2004, 08:02 PM
Oh let her run.....so Condi Rice can STOMP her.


I agree - Hillary would get a lot of wind in her sails for a while, but that's just the storm before the calm. She'll get whooped on Election Day FAR worse than Senator Kerry.

RobW
November 8, 2004, 09:16 PM
Don't underestimate the stupidity of totally biased people. This election has shown that emotions are the driving power behind "Liberals" and "Liberal" politicos, not facts. And the "old MEDIA" is dancing to their fife pipers like St. Vitu's dancers.

A Nation devided... yes, that's the state of the country.

Prediction: It will get worse.

Standing Wolf
November 8, 2004, 09:30 PM
America isn't dumb enough to elect Shillary Snopes Clinton.

Neva
November 8, 2004, 09:43 PM
The woman has too many things against here, not the least of which is, despite some women's support of her, secretly they think she's a dumba$$ for putting up with Billy.... then there's the fact that she's too liberal and she is still, first and foremost, a WOMAN.... not happening... not even for a lot of Dems....

Truth is, I don't think she's dumb enough to run.... she's got a cushy job where everybody bows down to her, she doesn't have to worry about anyone bringing Billy up any more or (God help him) investigating what he's doing now and she can keep people on a string without having to take any crap....

She knows she can't win and she knows people would rip her into pieces trying.... I'm betting she's had quite enough of that, thank you very much....

If not, I'll be happy to donate a $1000 to the peek into every corner of their freaking life and eat them alive with muckraking secrets fund....

Smoke
November 8, 2004, 09:44 PM
Thanks, Wolfie old boy.

Now I can sleep at night.

Smoke :D

Dave R
November 8, 2004, 10:34 PM
Another strike against her--she's a Senator. No Senator has won the Presidency in a long time. Governors are the winners.

I think there's a practical reason for that. Governors are experienced in working with the two houses of the legislature, and with the judiciary. Much better training for the Presidency than just being a Senator and working with the legislature.

Plus all the other stuff people have mentioned so far.

Especially Standing Wolf. ;)

4v50 Gary
November 8, 2004, 10:51 PM
On the plus side, she's got Bubba and while they despise each other, they're in it for the powwuh. Bubba is the most effective speaker and fundraiser the Democrats have and a vote for Hitlery is a vote for Bubba.

Now, I hope the Reps. run Condi against her. Condi will clean her clock. ;)

Lone_Gunman
November 8, 2004, 10:55 PM
People keep talking about Condoleeza Rice running, but that is simply not going to happen.

She is a bureaucrat, not a politician.

Neva
November 8, 2004, 11:37 PM
You've got my second on that, LG... not gonna happen....

wmenorr67
November 9, 2004, 08:36 AM
What is even more sickening is that Billy Boy wants to take Kofi Annan's (sp) spot in the UN in 06. :fire: :cuss: :banghead: :barf:

Ezekiel
November 9, 2004, 10:12 AM
As someone who attended the University of Arkansas in the early 1990s to get my BA, I'm quite familiar with the Clintons. All I can say is this: Hillary is to be respected and feared.

"You don't think Bill was the brains behind that operation, do you?"

Bill, Hillary, and James Carville -- in any iteration of the three -- had best be taken seriously: They're very good at campaigns. :uhoh:

petrel800
November 9, 2004, 10:25 AM
I agree with Ezekiel. Don't under estimate the Clintons. A lot of people liked Bill (even though he is a complete piece of trash). A lot of women will vote for Hillary, just because she is a woman. I've already spoken with several female friends who said they weren't quite sure about her politics, but they thought it was time for a woman to have a chance. Also remember, if we are not attacked again in the next four years, a lot of people will be lulled back in to condition white and will be willing to consider an appeaser.

tulsamal
November 9, 2004, 11:04 AM
Hillary is to be respected and feared.

Agreed.

A lot of people DO think it would be interesting to have a woman President. The people who won't vote for a woman aren't on her side in political ideology anyway. In all probability you would have a lot of middle of the road woman (and men) deciding to give her a chance. Kerry didn't do as well with women as he had hoped. The final national numbers says that 54% of the voters were women. And Kerry got 51% of those. Hillary would do better than that.

Then there is the Electoral College to worry about. Surely Hillary would carry all the Kerry states. The "woman factor" would probably be enough to get Iowa and New Mexico back. Then it would be a matter of using her husband's skills to get any small amount of the South. They wouldn't even need to win Ohio or Florida if they could get Missouri and Arkansas. Added to NM and Iowa, that would be 281 Electoral votes. 11 more than she needs. And that's if the GOP could hold onto the 20 votes from Ohio.

IMO, the numbers are very good for Hillary. She just needs to be careful of her votes in the Senate and try to give a few good speeches that get national attention. Avoid any really strident leftist comments that could come back on you someday.

I agree that she would motivate the GOP base to a tremendous degree. She has "high negatives." But she has high positives on the other side and they will be VERY motivated.

I truly hope she decides not to run because she really would be hard to beat. Whether she would actually be elected is totally dependant on what happens between now and then. What happens in Iraq? What domestic programs does the GOP succeed in putting into law and how are they received by the public? Do the Democrats participate or merely stand on the sidelines and yell? And what happens in the 2006 elections? Does a strong candidate emerge from the GOP for 2008?

Gregg

The Rabbi
November 9, 2004, 11:13 AM
I agree she has too many negatives. The other Dems will make hay out of this during the primaries. She has strong organizations going for her. If by fluke she does get the nomination then it will depend on who the Republicans put up. If Giuliani had actually run in NY I dont think she would have won. I dont see any immediate successors to Bush out there. Not yet.

I would watch TN governor Bredesen. He is a moderate, governor of a Southern state (even though he is from up north somewhere) and seems to be relatively succesful politically. Very attractive, professional wife too.

UnknownSailor
November 9, 2004, 12:02 PM
Also remember, if we are not attacked again in the next four years, a lot of people will be lulled back in to condition white and will be willing to consider an appeaser.

And you don't think the vast majority of the general public isn't in condition white now?

Brother, have I got a deal for you. Nice bridge, slightly used. :D

Northslope Nimrod
November 9, 2004, 12:38 PM
As I mentioned in my post......Hillary can't win due to the gun, camo, goose thing. They, the dems, know how important that image is now. She also has the ultra librel image that she will not shake. I say bring her on!

Rebar
November 9, 2004, 12:58 PM
Hillery is to be feared.

Remember, she carpet-bagged her way into a New York Senate seat, with no previous legislative experience, and not even a resident of the state!

That she will run in the primaries, is undoubted. Since it's the hard-core leftists who are running the DNC, and the big money donors are too, there's an excellent chance that she'll win the primary.

If that happens, then who the RNC runs is critical. In the NY Senate race, the republicans ran an empty suit, and he got crushed. They'll need a top-notch candidate.

Rice isn't it, unless she is groomed for the spot starting right now. If Cheney resigns in a year or two, and Rice is put in, then she'll be a much better candidate.

RangerHAAF
November 9, 2004, 01:00 PM
If they(Democrats) allow her to run in 2008 they will be the most mentally defective bunch of cretins to fly over the cuckoo's nest in a very long time, and since they may seriously do it, I would tell them to put Donna Brazille in charge of the party, let her and the rest of the uber-leftists finish running the Democratic Party into the ground.

The Rabbi
November 9, 2004, 01:29 PM
If they(Democrats) allow her to run in 2008 they will be the most mentally defective bunch of cretins to fly over the cuckoo's nest in a very long time,

What Ranger said. The commentary coming out of the post election from the Dems tells me that they dont have a clue why they lost. That guarantees they will continue to lose. Choosing Hitlery will just seal this, assuming 1) a good Republican candidate and 2) nothing terrible happens in the next 4 years.

flatrock
November 9, 2004, 01:42 PM
Hillary would win the votes of those who vote democrat regardless of the candidates or the issues.

Unfortunately, that's a lot of people.

Hillary would also win the votes of those easily swayed by the main stream media. That appears to be a smaller group than it once was, but it's still significant.

I don't think Hillary will do well with swing voters. She's not mainstream. THe crimes she committed in Whitewater still haunt her even though they never found enough evidence tied directly to her. Instead, those associated with her took the fall.

There's plenty of evidence of misuse of power by the Clinton administration, and Hillary just isn't as smooth at talking her way out of things as Bill is.

Could she win? That depends on how bad of a candidate the Republicans nominate.

Right now the Republicans seem to be more in touch with America than the Democrats, but there seems to be something in the air in Washington that effects people's sanity. If the Republicans choose a horrid candidate, then it's possible that even Hillary could win.

KRAUTGUNNER
November 9, 2004, 02:19 PM
No Senator has won the Presidency in a long time.

I think Tricky Dick was the last senator who was elected POTUS.

RobW
November 9, 2004, 02:52 PM
Just as a reminder:

1)the Democratic campaign cry was "Anybody else than Busch". I am convinced that the "Liberals" would have voted for a Hitler or Stalin to prevent Bush.

2) as Hillary was attacked by her opponent for the NY senate-seat, she instantly changed into whining mood, stating she is harrassed because she's a woman, thus silencing EVERY criticism.

I think these Clintons are a VERY dangerous, and the "Liberals" love to live in a dictatorial society.

CAS700850
November 9, 2004, 03:34 PM
I work in a very politically mixed office, with as many liberals as conservatives. With that in mind, no one in my office has expressed even the slightest support for Hillary in '08. I don't think the DNC would be so blind to the fact that even among Democrats, Hillary is a hard sell. Now, Obama, on the other hand...

Coronach
November 9, 2004, 04:05 PM
Re: Rice...

I agree that she is not an overt politician. However, if you read anything about her (and I am starting to), there is a rather prominent story from her childhood that she tells about how, in America, even a black woman can grow up to be President.

Makes you think.

Perhaps its the media putting more emphasis on the story than she intends. Or, perhaps, she is being very political and laying the outward groundwork for her running for the office. Or, perhaps she is being very honest and open her hopes and dreams, politics be damned.

Yes, she's a careerist in the non-elected side of government. But don't think that someone who is black, female, well-positioned and, above all, utterly brilliant cannot cross over.

And, besides. Lets face it. Three years ago Ahnold was just an overpaid B-list actor. Right? And he doesn't have a quarter of the gifts that Condi does (besides buckets of money)

Mike

The Rabbi
November 9, 2004, 06:15 PM
there is a rather prominent story from her childhood that she tells about how, in America, even a black woman can grow up to be President.
[QUOTE]Makes you think.

This might be the most myopic comment I have seen on these boards yet.

Guys, being a Black woman is not qualification for anything. Even being a talented bright one is not qualification to be president. No president has ever won without winning an election somewhere else. The party basically insists on it because campaigning is a good tool to see how people perform under pressure. It also allows people to gather their grass-roots support, something Bush learned very early in the game prior to 2000.
So give up the idea of Rice running for president. Aint gonna happen.

Lone_Gunman
November 9, 2004, 07:31 PM
Rabbi,

You have to cut these guys supporting Condoleeza Rice some slack....

They still believe the Republican Party is a conservative party in favor of limited government.

Coronach
November 9, 2004, 07:50 PM
Guys, being a Black woman is not qualification for anything. Even being a talented bright one is not qualification to be president. No president has ever won without winning an election somewhere else. The party basically insists on it because campaigning is a good tool to see how people perform under pressure. It also allows people to gather their grass-roots support, something Bush learned very early in the game prior to 2000.
So give up the idea of Rice running for president. Aint gonna happen.1. Oh, I FULLY agree that skin tone and/or presence/absence of dangly bits should have zilch to do with being president, or dog catcher, or anything else. I would also never put forward anyone as a candidate that wasn't qualified, presence or absence of PC qualities notwithstanding. Rice is, however, brilliant. The fact that she has internal plumbing and a dark skin tone is merely icing on the cake. She stands on her merits. Period.

2. No presdent has ever won without winning an election somewhere else? Perhaps true in recent history...but this is at least as much due to networking and dues-paying as it has to do with elections being trials by fire. Condi might manage an end-around on all of this if she is able to present herself as the right candidate at the right time. The 'party insisting' on anything means nothing. If she is able to run an aggressive primary campaign and woo the registered republicans, it doesn't matter a bit what the RNC wants. Yeah yeah, the national committees of both parties exert a lot of influence...but when it comes down to brass tacks, its primary votes that are counted, nothing else.

Also, the primary is an excellent place to see if you'll fold under pressure. *cough*Dean*cough* *SHRIEK!* :D

And, also, the same could be said of congressional hearings...of which Dr. Rice has endured more than her share.

And, to nitpick...what elections did Washington win? ;)

3. It remains to be seen if she wants to run and, moreover, if 2008 is when she would want to do it. I can really see her feeling it out and electing to run for, perhaps, congress...then giving the Oval Office a shot a few more years down the road.

Mike

RealGun
November 9, 2004, 08:29 PM
Hillary being in play is just a blog legend.

tulsamal
November 9, 2004, 09:06 PM
Hillary being in play is just a blog legend.

Yeah, that's the ticket! I've actually seen some blogs that say she is going to run for Senate! Like anybody would vote for her. One crazy guy even thought she would run for Senate in New York! Like those people would elect a hick woman who couldn't even stand up to her husband! She is from Arkansas for God's sake. And she's never held elective office. NO WAY she could win a Senate seat in Arkansas much less in New York. She has to start with something smaller first!

Right?

Gregg

The Rabbi
November 9, 2004, 09:08 PM
Sorry to disappoint Coronach and other Rice fans. Aint gonna happen. Being bright and articulate does not guarantee electibility. Look at Alan Keyes. He is one of the brightest most articulate guys out there and he just proved he could not be elected dog-catcher.
I see Rice as possibly SecState somewhere down the line. Hopefully she'll do a better job than Powell.

Oh, yeah. Washington ran unopposed. :neener:

RangerHAAF
November 9, 2004, 10:36 PM
The Rabbi is right; I believe that she is one of the most technically proficient people to serve in the administration, she defends most eloquently George Bush's policies but I've never heard any personal political declaration from her as to how she feels about a lot of the pushbutton hot issues that she would have to address as a candidate for elected office.

I may be wrong but I believe that her hide isn't tough enough to take the personal attacks that would come from liberal Democrats and about 85-90% of blacks. The country saw an example of those attacks with Clarence Thomas and leading up to last week's election of George Bush; the left's passionate hatred of him(Bush). It takes a strong person to weather such attacks and come through it still standing and sane.

Colin Powell didn't have the hide for it and neither does Ms. Rice, in my opinion; despite her personal qualifications.

Selfdfenz
November 10, 2004, 12:00 AM
[QUOTE=They still believe the Republican Party is a conservative party in favor of limited government.[/QUOTE]

Amen.

I think it will be Hilly in '08 but 4 years is along time in politics.
I often feel the last 4 years have been a long time.

I hope Bush surprises me and just turns out to be a real rooten-tooten pro-2A conservative small government non Rockefeller, non-Neocon Repub president but I'm also trying to figure out what to do with and how to support my share of the 14 million illegals he's planning to gate in any day.

S-

Monkeyleg
November 10, 2004, 07:27 PM
The last person to go directly from the senate to the White House was JFK. The last person to be elected president without having served in another elected office was Eisenhower.

But Hillary doesn't have JFK's youthful charm, and Condi Rice didn't oversee a World War.

Nevertheless, get out and talk to dyed-in-the-wool Democrats. They love Hillary. Four years is a long way out to predict, but I'll bet she'll be in the primaries.

DevilDog
November 11, 2004, 02:27 PM
Hillary will definitely be there in '08, as Kerry's nomination and his losing the election was part of the Clinton's plan to setup Hillary in '08.

The media and the left will be marketing her as a way to return to the blissful days of slick's eight years during the '90's. By then national security will be less of an issue, which sets up an environment that the "blame America first" party can thrive in.

Don't believe Hillary can't win in '08. If we dismiss her chances prematurely, than we put ourselves in the same spot that Bush's critics thought when they dismissed him getting reelected.

RealGun
November 11, 2004, 03:22 PM
Hillary will definitely be there in '08, as Kerry's nomination and his losing the election was part of the Clinton's plan to setup Hillary in '08.

The media and the left will be marketing her as a way to return to the blissful days of slick's eight years during the '90's. By then national security will be less of an issue, which sets up an environment that the "blame America first" party can thrive in.

Don't believe Hillary can't win in '08. If we dismiss her chances prematurely, than we put ourselves in the same spot that Bush's critics thought when they dismissed him getting reelected.

That's a pretty elaborate conspiracy theory. I could see Hillary running in '08 maybe, but by fate, not by any plan that she and Bill could control. Positioning herself in the Senate was certainly her own doing and could very well pay off, at least getting a chance to run. If the GOP really sees her coming, and as a followup to Kerry, I think they will do some real educating of the public about liberal politics.

Don't kid yourself. By 2008, a prime issue will be all the Supreme Court and constitutional amendment mess we went through in the last four years (2005-2008). It will be very much about who will name replacements for upcoming SCOTUS retirees. Maybe if we can clear abortion and gay rights off the table, we can get back to real government...maybe "under God", maybe not.

Bush would have to have some profound failures in support of social conservative issues for the Dems to even have a shot. Of course, the candidates are major variables too. The GOP would have to pick a good one. That might come sooner than later, if Cheney's health falters. Powell's replacement may well be picked with that in mind.

Marko Kloos
November 11, 2004, 06:52 PM
Condi Rice will not run for POTUS or even be on the ticket as VP. Too many of the Republican core voters would never vote for a black POTUS, or a woman. The fact that she's both would make her un-electable to a great many people in this country, especially down in Dixie.

Any Southerners ready to howl in protest don't have a grasp on reality. Not a value statement, just a description of the way things are. Nobody can become POTUS without being palatable to the South, as Kerry just found out.

bill2
November 11, 2004, 07:19 PM
I think Hillary will run in 2008. Like Kerry, she will do well in the primaries because she is popular in the Democratic party. However, once out in the general election, she will be beated, probably worse than Kerry (depending on who the Republicans put up). While many people love her, even more people really hate her/dislike her. she is still too controversial. Rudy Guliani or Condi Rice/other qualified and well known woman would kick Hillary's ass. Hillary would take the northeast, maybe not New Hampshire; CA, some upper mid west states if at all. But that would be it.

Side note - doesn't James Carville look like an alien? with that bald head and harsh facial features. if you saw him at night with just a little light available you'd be locking and loading on him.

Lone_Gunman
November 11, 2004, 09:33 PM
Marko is correct, sad as that may be. There would be people who wouldnt vote for her because she is black and female. In states where things are going to be tight, this could cost the election.

muleshoe
November 12, 2004, 08:50 AM
Another strike against her--she's a Senator. No Senator has won the Presidency in a long time.


I could be wrong, but wasn't Bush I a Senator? Of course that was prior to being VP.

Lone_Gunman
November 12, 2004, 09:26 AM
I could be wrong, but wasn't Bush I a Senator? Of course that was prior to being VP.

Yes, you are wrong. He was never a senator.

RealGun
November 12, 2004, 09:30 AM
I could be wrong, but wasn't Bush I a Senator? Of course that was prior to being VP.

No. I recall that he was CIA Director. I don't doubt that you would find a thorough biography with a search.

KRAUTGUNNER
November 12, 2004, 10:36 AM
George Herbert Walker Bush ran for senator in 1964 and 1970. Both times he lost.

His Daddy Prescott did better. He was Senator of Connecticut and a very special friend of Germany. :evil:

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