new Ruger Blackhawk or beat up Uberti SAA, which is better?


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Clark
November 9, 2004, 03:43 PM
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I just got one of each in 45 Colt, and I like the Uberti much better.

The Italian locks up perfectly, even though it is over 30 years old.
The Ruger is loose, not from wear, but built that way.

The Uberti loading gate opens smoothly.
The loading gate on the Ruger takes two hands to operate.

The Ruger is 2# 4 oz = 36 oz with Aluminum lower
The Uberti is 2#5.5 oz = 37.5 oz with brass lower.

The Ruger has adjustable sights.
The Uberti has fixed, and shoots 1' high at 25' with 250 gr bullets. Rather than use light bullets, I am going to TIG weld the front sight higher.

The Ruger has a purple slightly magnetic material for frame and ejector housing.
The Uberti has color case hardening for the frame and a steel that takes bluing the same as the barrel.

The Ruger has one cocking level, and locks the loading gate when back
The Uberti has 4 cocking steps [that sound off "C","O"," L","T"] with the loading gate independent, and the cylinder rotates with #2 cocking position.

The Ruger chamber walls are between .069" and .073" to the outside.
The Uberti chamber walls are between .059" and .063" to the outside.

The Ruger chamber walls are between .059" and .060". between chambers.
The Uberti chamber walls are between .046" and .047".

The Ruger can take 30 kpsi per public loading information .
With a Ruger chamber inside diameter of .489" for the Uberti and .486", S = P[ID]/2thickness = 124ksi stress in the Ruger, which would require heat treatment of 4140 steel.
If the Italian steel were as good, the Uberti should be good for P = 2S[thickness] /ID = 2 124ksi [.046]/.486 = 23.5 kpsi.
I have been shooting 24 gr. H110 250 gr. XTP, 1.6", which Quickload thinks is 28.693 kpsi chamber pressure.
But Quickload thinks it would only be 25.2 kpsi if it were W296.

The Ruger can take an over all length of 1.756".
The Uberti can take an over all length of 1.670".
But with 250 gr. XTP, the OAL will be about 1.6".

--
A society that teaches evolution as fact will breed a generation of atheists that will destroy the society. It is Darwinian.

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Tom C.
November 11, 2004, 08:39 PM
Which you prefer will come down to personal preference. I prefer the NMBHs and have several SS Blackhawks in .45 Colt. I tightened them up a little with Belt Mtn cylinder base pins. I smoothed them up with spring kits and a lot of elbow grease. I also recut the barrel forcing cone and cylinder throats. I like to play with heavy loads, but mostly use them with mouse fart loads. My favorite load is 9 gr. of Universal Clays with a 250 gr. SWC bullet. That load is a little hot for the clones.

Clark
November 11, 2004, 10:00 PM
I bought the Ruger to experiment with hot loads.
I fired one round, and the grips, lower frame, upper frame, and hammer all cut into the web of my hand with the sharpness.

I showed the two pistols to my machinist brother [who has built a couple guns from scratch, only buying the barrel] and he said the Ruger is just not as nicely machined as the Uberti. He says the lack of any effort to break the edge on the hammer says "low quality" to him.

I am going to take the Ruger appart and melt the edges that are cutting me.

The looseness in MY Ruger is not caused by the pin fit, but by the bolt to frame and bolt to cylinder fit. I could try to find a wider bolt or TIG weld on the one I have to make it wider.

The loading gate stiffness is caused by a couple things, but could be helped if I changed the angle of the loading gate where it cams over.

What hot loads have you shot in your Ruger?
I fired one shot of 25.5 gr LIL'GUN 250 gr XTP, 1.6".

JNewell
November 12, 2004, 10:13 PM
John Linebaugh has some truuuuly hot (to everyone here but you, ClarK! :p :) ) .45 Colt loads on his website, which I think is hung off the sixgunner.com website.

BusMaster007
November 12, 2004, 10:37 PM
Clark,

You and your Brother should "HOT-ROD" the Ruger.

Maybe change over to a Bisley gripframe
---OR ---
try the use of a squared triggerguard 'Dragoon' style' gripframe, with a Hogue grip that fits that one.
It looks like it might give you more protection for a powerful load in a single-shot revolver.

One other option is the new Hartford Armory Remington 1858 revolver, that was reported in American Handgunner issue of Nov/Dec 2004.
It's supposed to be coming out in .44 mag.
They increased the cylinder length by 1/8" to accomodate the .45 Colt, too.
ALSO, THIS VERSION CORRECTLY COPIES THE ORIGINAL REMINGTON DIMENSIONS vs. the 'Italian Clones' prior, which for some reason did NOT.
Apparently, the .45 Colt version was shot with HOT loads and was, surprisingly to John Taffin, more comfortable than his beloved Colts!
HE was surprised at that.
That the gun could take Ruger Single-Action loads also surprised him, and the gun was stated to be 'TIGHT'. As in GOOD & TIGHT~!
I like Remingtons, and it was pretty cool to read of this development.

Tom C.
November 13, 2004, 08:43 AM
If the lock-up on your Ruger is too loose, just put in a new pawl. While you are at it, you could fit a free-spin pawl. They are available from Brownell's.
The cylinder locks up on the length of the pawl. Your current pawl is too short. You probably don't need a new bolt. Fitting a new pawl is a trial and error thing, but if you can build your own gun, it probably won't be a problem.

Clark
November 13, 2004, 10:40 AM
If the lock-up on your Ruger is too loose, just put in a new pawl. While you are at it, you could fit a free-spin pawl. They are available from Brownell's.
The cylinder locks up on the length of the pawl. Your current pawl is too short. You probably don't need a new bolt. Fitting a new pawl is a trial and error thing, but if you can build your own gun, it probably won't be a problem.

Tom,
Thanks for the response. The revolver I have spins free if and only if the loading gate is open.
I could take the pawl out and TIG weld a little on the tip and shape it until it fits.

Tom C.
November 13, 2004, 11:27 AM
Sounds like you already have a free-spin pawl, but it is too short. It allows free sprinning of the cylinder only when the loading gate is open.
Timing is a function of both the tip and tooth of the pawl. They both need to be the appropriate length. The tip starts cylinder rotation, the tooth picks it up and finishes rotation, and the tooth provides the locking surface, holding the cylinder against the bolt. You can try welding up the two surfaces and cutting them down, or getting a spair pawl. Either way, take your time cutting it. Anticipate the possibility of going too far the first time you try it, but don't worry. They are relatively cheap, and the results are worth it.
You can also give it to someone who thinks he knows what he is doing and let him do it for you.

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