[sar]

http://abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=235904&page=1
Some Say U.S. No Longer Feels Like Home

Nov. 10, 2004 -- Leora Dowling and her husband thought returning from deep in "red" America to her native New England would make them feel more comfortable, more like the people around them shared their values. Since the election, she's been contemplating another move. To Italy.

"After the election, my husband and I asked ourselves, 'How could our country be heading backward? How could so many people miss or choose to ignore the obvious failures of the Bush administration?'" the former Florida resident said.

President Bush pledged that one priority for his second term would be to heal the wounds that a bitter election — in which groups not formally connected to each candidate ran attack ads focused on character, not issues — seems to have opened for many Americans.

Dowling, a college professor who lives with her husband in Vermont, is not alone in feeling that the wounds cannot be healed, or at least that Bush is not the man to do it.

For Dowling, as for others who ABCNews.com spoke with, though the immediate anger may be focused on the president — whether because of the war in Iraq, his stance on same-sex weddings, what they say is his blurring of the line between church and state, or his championing of the Patriot Act — there is a broader concern. They say they feel the United States is changing in ways they do not like, and they feel powerless to stop it.

"We were leaving anyhow, mostly because we want to start a family and we don't feel our children can get a decent education in the United States," said Brian Sinicki, of Laramie, Wyo.

He said America's schools fail children by not teaching subjects like philosophy and civics, subjects that he said would give Americans not only a deeper understanding of the world, but an appreciation for why they should be more actively involved in the political process, not only voting but staying informed.

He also criticized the media, and television in particular, for the way news is covered.

"Television I think has single-handedly destroyed the level of political discourse," he said. "When I talk to people about politics, they're either radically misinformed or they wouldn't know how to define the terms that they use."

Sinicki, who has been job hunting in his wife's native France, doesn't blame Bush for what he believes is happening in America, but he doesn't believe Bush will change things for the better, either.

"All these things were going on before Bush got elected," he said. "But I also think they got worse since Bush got elected. He's a symptom of the problem and he's making it worse."

Like Sinicki, Dowling didn't start thinking about moving abroad last week, but she said her concern was more about the role Bush's religious beliefs seem to play in his governing, and the role of religion in American society — what she called "aggressive Christianity."

"There is this aggressive morality that seems to me to have nothing to do with Christianity," she said. "Our fathers were mostly Unitarians, not at all holy rollers."

She also said it feels like there has been a closing of the American mind.

"I can't understand when in our nation's history being an intellectual, having a questioning, curious mind, wanting to travel, became bad," she said. "I don't understand when it became stigmatized."

She said Italy appeals to her because it is a country that holds secular values, with a "mind your own business" attitude to religion and an acceptance of the fallibility of its government.

"I do love my country and it hurts me very deeply to see what's happening here, to see us so far off course," she said. "But I've met a lot of evangelicals and they believe it deeply. They'd rather vote for fetuses and against gay people, rather than voting against war, with thousands dead, against guns, which we know kill people. When you're talking about deeply held religious beliefs, you're out of luck."

While for some people who said they are investigating the possibility of leaving the country, the difficulty of finding work overseas could keep them in the United States, for those who operate Web-based businesses, that is not a problem.

One such person, Kelly Ann Thomas of Houston, said she has put her house on the market and a real estate agent has been showing her properties in a Central American country. She said she did not want to say exactly where, because her agent told her he received 45 calls in one day from Americans looking to move to the same location.

She has been concerned since Bush took office in 2001, she said. She started buying gold and investing in euros, because she and her husband, an oil trader, were worried about a "significant stock market collapse."

Much of her anger at the president is related to the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq, both of which she believes were being planned by the administration months before Sept. 11, 2001. But her opinion of former Democratic candidate Sen. John Kerry isn't much better.

"I can no longer in good conscience support a nation that believes it is OK to lie to start wars," she said. "I will not live in a country where dumb and dumber are my two choices for president. I'm taking my assets out of the country and moving to Central America, where ironically, I will have more freedom to live my life without interference from a corrupt government. My husband and I will leave within four months."

For Cindy Sproul, though, leaving the country — if she does go — will be a business decision, though one that is based on politics. Or it could become a matter of life or death.

She operates an Internet business, RainbowWeddingNetwork.com, a gay and lesbian wedding registry and directory of gay-friendly professionals.

The business has been successful — she said the site has 4,700 vendors advertising there, and most of the businesses are not owned by straight people — but a combination of factors has made her feel unwelcome in her own country.

"With the ban on gay marriage passing in so many states and the conservative agenda President Bush is taking, it doesn't feel safe in the U.S. any more," she said. "We are expecting that next year Bush will try to push the Federal Marriage Amendment Act through Congress again."

Actually, she said she has been worried about safety since receiving her first death threat, two weeks after starting the company. The threats have not stopped coming, she said, though she relocated to another city, and then had to relocate again within the new city.

She said her Web site already does a lot of business with Canadians and Canadian companies, and she feels Canada is more tolerant than the United States right now. But she said her decision will be made on business terms.

"We're small business owners, so everything relies on the business aspects," she said.

[Highland Ranger]

Ba-bye . . . . . let them go.

[TallPine]

To the best of my knowledge, the USA has never erected any barrier to folks wanting to go to other countries. :)

Happy Trails!

[Art Eatman]

I'd usually just ignore this, but these people seem to understand so little about this country, about our whole political process...

"All these things were going on before Bush got elected," he said. "But I also think they got worse since Bush got elected. He's a symptom of the problem and he's making it worse."

Utter BS. The things he complained about earlier in the interview are not a function of Bush I, Clinton or Bush II.

Now, Bush II may indeed be a focal point. That has zilch to do with broad social forces which operate without any control by anybody. For example, the strength of "moral values" didn't come from the Religious Right. It came from "just folks" repugnance to what is seen as moral decay, provided in large part from the Hollyweirds who largely supported Kerry.

And so it goes...

May they go.

:), Art

[BeLikeTrey]

They ruin their own arguments or expose themselves for total lack of moral fiber. I'm sorry but when you start downplaying morals, what do you have? An anarchist? A person who has no views at all? Stupidity isn't contagious I hope... "There is this aggressive morality that seems to me to have nothing to do with Christianity," -remind me again where the problem with morality is... Perhaps you would fit in better with a colony of rapists?


"I'm taking my assets out of the country and moving to Central America, where ironically, I will have more freedom to live my life without interference from a corrupt government." Now there's a statement with some thought put into it!!!! Do I need to say more? :scrutiny:

"They'd rather vote for fetuses and against gay people, rather than voting against war, with thousands dead, against guns, which we know kill people. When you're talking about deeply held religious beliefs, you're out of luck."
-Actually most of what you said is right here with a twist. We'd like to vote for LIFE MORON! Ending murder in any country (or body, but we won't go there right now). That's why what we are doing in Iraq IS RIGHT. The other part? did you know it was an even split of gays voting both for Kerry and Bush? We believe that Gays have the right to lose half their sh** just like the rest of us. Marriage was an institution in religeous context between a man and a woman. there was NO opposition to CIVIL UNIONS MORON!

"give Americans not only a deeper understanding of the world, but an appreciation for why they should be more actively involved in the political process, not only voting but staying informed."
- record voter turnout and informed people paying VERY CLOSE ATTENTION shows that ther is quite a bit of participation. Informed Americans voted Bush back in. Any questions?

I could go on but I need to find the duct tape before my head pops. grrrrrrr

[Old Dog]

He also criticized the media, and television in particular, for the way news is covered.

Hmm. All the network and cable news (except Fox) basically ran an overt campaign for Kerry ... now comes a Bush victory, and the media is "bad."

She said Italy appeals to her because it is a country that holds secular values, with a "mind your own business" attitude to religion and an acceptance of the fallibility of its government.

Wow. I've lived there ... "secular values?" Not my experience; a staunchly Roman Catholic country. "Acceptance of fallibility of government?" She's right there ... no worries on the part of the citizenry about the corrupt socialist regime in existence ...

I'm taking my assets out of the country and moving to Central America, where ironically, I will have more freedom to live my life without interference from a corrupt government.

This statement cracks me up. Good luck to her.

[SLCDave]

OK, but don't come back! :rolleyes:

It's such a joke! So aggressive immorality is ok, but agressive morality isn't? Anyone showing a fiber of morality is overzealous, but they can flaunt whatever they want, and call it free speech. It's a crime to go to war and kill people, but it's ok to kill a child before it's born out of convenience. The schools aren't teaching my kids enough, so rather than teach them myself, I'll move somewhere that will take on that responsibility of parenting for me, and complain if they teach my child anything objectionable. I'd rather not try to make my surroundings better through my efforts. I'd rather find a better system to leach off of. Hurry up and leave, and take the Baldwins and Streisand with you.

[Lennyjoe]

May the door hit ya where the good Lord split ya!

[HankB]

"After the election, my husband and I asked ourselves, 'How could our country be heading backward? Well, when you've strayed from the right path, it's not unusual to have to backtrack a bit. Liberalism has damaged this country a lot - I only hope Bush can repair it. (I'm not real optimistic . . . but that's for another thread.) Dowling, a college professor . . . What subject? Something useful, or something worthless, like art history or liberal arts? . . . we don't feel our children can get a decent education in the United States," said Brian Sinicki, of Laramie, Wyo.Maybe they could, if the focus was on academics, rather than self esteem, liberal socialization, and diversity.He said America's schools fail children by not teaching subjects like philosophy and civics, Funny . . . while I didn't get formal "philosophy" courses until college, I distinctly remember studying civics in the form of actually reading the Constitution, the Declaration of Independence, various treaties, voting, the flag code, etc. all through both elementary and high school.While for some people who said they are investigating the possibility of leaving the country, the difficulty of finding work overseas could keep them in the United States, Maybe there's a REASON the grass isn't greener? For Cindy Sproul, though, leaving the country — if she does go — will be a business decision . . . She operates an Internet business . . . a gay and lesbian wedding registry . . . Bon voyage.

You folks won't be missed.

In the words of Samuel Adams . . . "depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen."

[sar]

This is what we are up against. Need to stay on top of the dems and left, they know no bounds. Here is a great quote from Michael Moore:

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=1944&ncid=1990&e=2&u=/variety/20041110/va_ne_al/get_ready_for_more_moore

And as for those who claim that Hollywood was an albatross on the Democrats' neck, Moore says, "America loves Hollywood. When given a chance to vote for someone from Hollywood, they jump in." He cited the history of successful Republican actor-politicians from George Murphy to Ronnie Reagan to Arnold. "Who is the Democrats' Arnold? We have a number of them. What American wouldn't vote for Tom Hanks (news)? Hollywood is full of people like that." When I asked what actor would trade a $20 million salary and a percentage of the gross, he countered with "Let's pay the actor-politicians a presidential salary of $20 million -- plus a percentage of the GNP."

Michael Moore met with Harvey Weinstein and Moore says they plan to start working -- now -- on "Fahrenheit 9/11½." "We want to get cameras rolling now and have it ready in two-three years," Moore says. "We want to document and commercialize it. Fifty-one percent of the American people lacked information (in this election) and we want to educate and enlighten them. They weren't told the truth. We're communicators and it's up to us to start doing it now.

[0007]

Most of these people's experience with being "overseas" has probably been limited to a week or two of vacation time. Wait until thet start trying to LIVE somewhere else. Good luck to all of them... Love to see the expressions on their collective faces the first time one of them mouths off to a policeman overseas, oh yeah, heh, heh, heh.

[Nathaniel Firethorn]

How do you say, "Don't let the doorknob hit you" in French?

- pdmoderator

[DevilDog]

I'd be happy to make a contribution to their moving expenses.

More noise from the "blame America first bunch".... *sigh*

[CannibalCrowley]

I don't agree with everything he has to say, but it sounds like many here were simply offended because he doesn't like Bush or support the President's vision for the future of this country. They say they feel the United States is changing in ways they do not like, and they feel powerless to stop it. I'm sure that many here feel the same way. Not all of them leave, but their feeling is shared by many on this board. He said America's schools fail children by not teaching subjects like philosophy and civics, subjects that he said would give Americans not only a deeper understanding of the world, but an appreciation for why they should be more actively involved in the political process, not only voting but staying informed.What's wrong with this? Several people on this forum have stated that schools should bring back civics class and people weren't jumping all over them.
did you know it was an even split of gays voting both for Kerry and Bush?Do you have proof of this? Marriage was an institution in religeous context between a man and a woman.Marriage is not about religion when it comes to being recognized by the law. Marriage is a legal union between two people. Marriage is also mentioned in the Code of Hammurabi, and I believe it's far older than any religion practiced today. In fact many current religions took many of their rules from the code. there was NO opposition to CIVIL UNIONS MORON!First off, way to stay high road by name calling. Secondly you're incorrect again, did you actually read the Federal Marriage Amendment when it was being proposed? Here it is:

Marriage in the United States shall consist only of the union of a man and a woman. Neither this Constitution or the constitution of any State, nor state or federal law, shall be construed to require that marital status or the legal incidents thereof be conferred upon unmarried couples or groups.'.

[KRAUTGUNNER]

Mrs. Dowling surely won't believe just how many guns and gun-toting gun-nuts there are, in lovely Italy! :evil: :neener:

Remember: Italy is the home of BENELLI, BERETTA, FRANCHI, TANFOGLIO and many more legendary firearms manufacturers.

[rdbrowning]

[QUOTE=CannibalCrowley]...Marriage is not about religion when it comes to being recognized by the law. Marriage is a legal union between two people.

Historically the legal union between two people required that they be of opposite sex. Check out this link that refers to George Washington having to have one of his officers discharged.

http://www.wallbuilders.com/resources/search/detail.php?ResourceID=8

It also quotes the state laws from several of the states during the first 2/3 of our nations history. The concept of same sex relationships is nothing new, recognizing them as a marriage is a very modern concept in this country.

[Dave R]

"Television I think has single-handedly destroyed the level of political discourse," he said. "When I talk to people about politics, they're either radically misinformed or they wouldn't know how to define the terms that they use."

Well, we agree on one thing.

But if they think they're going to "have more freedom to live my life without interference from a corrupt government" anywhere else, they are sadly mistaken.

There have been several "if you could move anywhere else, where would you go" threads. And the answer is always the same. Ain't nowhere with more freedom.

As Rush said, "as freedom goes in the USA, so it goes for all mankind."

Or something like that.

[Coronach]

They'll run their mouths, but they won't leave.

I'm still willing to contribute to Alec Baldwin's plane ticket.

Mike

[SteveS]

Cannibal Crowley,
You raise some good points. I know that I have been critical of the government throughout my entire life and I doubt that I will stop. The thing that stands out most for me is how, IMHO, these people are reacting. I have never been to Italy, but I have lived overseas, and it made me appreciate the freedoms that we have. Do people think it will be better in Italy...in Central America...in France? Is there something I don't know, because I was under the impression that there is a great deal more state control in those places. Maybe it is of the type that they like, or maybe they aren't tolerant of "red staters."

There is more to this country than the president. He does not define who we are. I didn't like Clinton, but I still felt a part of this country during his presidency.

[CarlS]

I hope they really do leave. That would mean a few less anti-gunners and a few less votes for Hilary in '08.

[raz-0]

like bush, hate bush, like gay marriage, or hate gay marriage, at least the first couple discussed are major idiots.

They externalize all their problems, take no responsibility themselves, and look to address their problems by moving. How about sucking it up and oh maybe try some novel concepts like:

-don't have a TV in the house.
-don't rely on the techers to provide 100% of your kid's education.
-don't think that changing locale will get you a get out of free card from human nature
-grasp the concept that if you are worried about a critically weak economy, italy isn't exactly the poster child for a strong economy.

These are the sme people who move to the boonies and then whine that nothing is there, then ruin it by trying to build it up. They are going to have a whole heck of a lot of fun in places that like the fact that their city is 800 years old and built like it as well as impoverished 3rd world nations.

have fun, bye bye

[BeLikeTrey]

The Rosco!

http://www.roscoitaly.it

yeah baby! :evil:

[Wildalaska]

We were leaving anyhow, mostly because we want to start a family and we don't feel our children can get a decent education in the United States," said Brian Sinicki, of Laramie, Wyo.

Well hell if the l;iberal NEA and the other teacher mafias would teach the fundamentals rather than the feel good, there would be decent education

She said Italy appeals to her because it is a country that holds secular values, with a "mind your own business" attitude to religion and an acceptance of the fallibility of its government.

Bwaaaaaaaaahahahahahahahahahahahah]

I'm taking my assets out of the country and moving to Central America, where ironically, I will have more freedom to live my life without interference from a corrupt government. My husband and I will leave within four months."

Until some tinpot socilaist dictator takes over?

What a bunch of idiots

WildwheredotheyfindthesepeopleAlaska

[KRAUTGUNNER]

WOW!!!

Thanks a lot for that link BeLikeTrey! :)

I've never heard about that gizmo. :what:

And it is perfectly legal here in Germany! :evil:

I think I know what my father's only son wants for Xmas! :cool:

[NeverAgain26]

Our country is pretty polarized today, but not because of W. This election only highlighted the problem of the polarization.

W won with a pretty respectable margin, but there were still 50+ Million voters who disagreed with what W represented.

The only solution I see (as much as I would hate it to happen) is to divide the country up into red and blue sections where the blue sections can have all the alternative marriages they want, make any choices about the right to life they want, allow illegal immigrants to flood their borders, and everything else we know we dont want in the red section.

I wish it were that easy. Being that it's not, people who think they can find a better place than the U.S.A. are welcome to try and good riddance to them.

Saul Levy

[John Hicks]

Saul,
You have just described the Federalist system to a T. States have most of the power, with the federal gov only stepping in to fill in the blank spots.

If PRK wants illegals and gay marriage, so be it. More close to home, MD and VA have very different laws and tax structures, people move between the two states to find the one that fits them best.

It keeps politics local, which is where it should be. Hopefully, the Blue will wake up and 're-realize' this system, which will lead to smaller governemtn for all of us. Which is, of course, a good thing.

jh

[Deavis]

The only solution I see (as much as I would hate it to happen) is to divide the country up into red and blue sections where the blue sections can have all the alternative marriages they want, make any choices about the right to life they want, allow illegal immigrants to flood their borders, and everything else we know we dont want in the red section.

It isn't hard at all, it is just a change in the direction of government. Liberals have been crying for federal consolidation and now that the tables are turned... boo-hoo.

The closer the government is to the people, the better. Let the states decide what they want and you can help alleviate this issue. If Louisiana wants an 18 year old drinking age, that is their business and they shouldn't be denied federal highway funds that they paid in.

Maybe it is just asking too much to let the states be responsible. Although some of them did really well with welfare reform! Go Federalism?

[fastbolt]

"He also criticized the media, and television in particular, for the way news is covered."
"Television I think has single-handedly destroyed the level of political discourse," he said. "When I talk to people about politics, they're either radically misinformed or they wouldn't know how to define the terms that they use."

Hard to really disagree on that ... although the second statement probably requires a more intimate knowledge of what it means for people who live in glass house to not throw rocks than the statement's speaker may possess ... Just a thought.

"... returning from deep in "red" America to her native New England would make them feel more comfortable, more like the people around them shared their values. Since the election, she's been contemplating another move. To Italy."

Well, that's certainly a perception on someone's part ...

"I'm taking my assets out of the country and moving to Central America, where ironically, I will have more freedom to live my life without interference from a corrupt government."

Oh my ... That certainly doesn't compare to what a lot of folks tell me who have emmigrated from Central American countries. Maybe they were simply misinformed, only having been born and raised in some of those countries.

"aggressive Christianity."

I don't find this statement to be all that disagreeable, by itself, because I'm also somewhat bothered by the aggressive, in your face, holier-than-thou, and vehemently intolerant folks who claim to be Christians ... and then make excuses if their hypocrisy and enlightened self-interest practices become self-evident. We're supposed to be tolerant of religious beliefs and practices. The separation of Church & State is important. Sure, the founders of our nation reportedly mostly had religious beliefs, and these beliefs influenced their moral principles. But Religion has sometimes historically been used to control the masses, and even help exert a ruling body's will upon the masses. Okay, and there's been the occasional "competitiveness" between ruling governments and religious orders, too.;)

Bottom line? I think we'll still see more people trying desperately to enter our country, than to leave it. And for those folks that feel their personal beliefs require them to leave, well, that's one of the wonderful freedoms of our country, isn't it?

There was this guy that wanted to argue with a local cop a while back. Some minor pedestrian violation of the rules of the road. He was able to harangue the cop to his heart's content. It wasn't until he remembered back to a recent trip he'd taken to one of the more enlightened EU countries, where he'd tried to argue with a representative of their local L/E about some similar issue, and had promptly gotten smacked with a baton ... that he realized how much better the ordinary citizen really does have it in this country.

Our nation and form of government is unique in the world. We should be grateful, and not complain about the cost of freedom. It isn't cheap, and it's not purchased with a one-time payment ... but requires continual payments on the installment plan. Many people elsewhere in the world may have other priorities, and that's fine ... for them. If someone here thinks the grass is greener elsewhere, the line forms on the LEFT.

God Bless America.

[Nightfall]

...rather than voting against war, with thousands dead, against guns, which we know kill people.
No loss. Try to convince some of your friends to go with you!

[Checkman]

Good bye. I hope they like living in another country. We did it for three years in Germany. While Germany was fun it wasn't the USA. It was an eye opener. My feelings are that the ex-patriots aren't the types you want living in the country anyway. Interesting how many of them live in other nations, but don't renounce their American citizenship.

[Hkmp5sd]

"When I talk to people about politics, they're either radically misinformed or they wouldn't know how to define the terms that they use."
Isn't it interesting how anyone that does not have the same views as the left is automatically deemed either misinformed or too stupid to understand the information?

But then, that is the way the leftist elite view everything in this country. You are simply too stupid to make any decisions yourself, so they must ensure every aspect of your life is controlled by the "all caring" government or by their own special interest groups.

If you fail to believe them and join in with their "utopia," you simply have to be stupid.

Republicans Are Dimwits

Ever since an alleged 1978 University of Chicago omnibus study evidencing that average Republican IQs were a full 21 points below average Democrat IQs, I've been following up on evidence to the contrary.

After all, I have quite a few Republican friends who at least seem smart.

However, I have yet to find any evidence reputing the basic assumption -- and that is after more than a dozen years monitoring this arena.

<snip>

Gallup tells us that the smarter you are, and the older you are the better your perception must be when assessing Bush Administration policies re Iraq.

Ergo, because Republicans support invasion of Iraq by a whopping 75% as opposed to Democrats at only 39%, Republicans must be, are, far weaker critical thinkers than are Democrats, again bolstering decades-long suspicions about basic levels of intelligence among self-identified Republicans.

This is not rocket science, and the numbers do not lie, although it appears, at least, that Mr. Jones and The Gallup "Organization" are loathe to take the extra step to reveal the truth.

Here they are, expressed as the Five Koopersmith Hypotheses:

1. The younger you are, the dumber you are.

2. The poorer you are, the less educated you are.

3. The less education you have, the dumber you are.

4. The dumber you are, the more you support George W. Bush.

5. The weaker you are, the more you support George W. Bush.

These are the most important truths revealed by Gallup here, make no mistake about it.

- Jeff Koopersmith (a political consultant, opinion research authority, policy analyst, and self-described "renegade lobbyist.")
http://www.americanpolitics.com/20030922Koop.html

As Ann Coulter says...
"If liberals were prevented from ever again calling Republicans dumb, they would be robbed of half their arguments," Ann Coulter writes. "To be sure they would still have ‘racist,’ ‘fascist,’ ‘homophobe,’ ‘ugly,’ and a few other highly nuanced arguments in their quiver."

But not having "dumb" to throw around, she says, "would nearly cripple them. Like clockwork, every consequential Republican to come down the pike is instantly, invariably, always, without exception called dumb."

Noting that this is exactly the way six-year-olds argue, that they call everything "stupid," Coulter says the left’s resort to the "stupid" stratagem comes out of its inability to mount an intelligent counter-argument when faced with undeniable facts.

[para.2]

I will renew my standing offer to buy one of these "people" a one-way bus ticket to the country of their choice, as long as they promise to renounce their US citizenship, and NEVER return.

[BenW]

Well, at least they'll have the opportunity to participate in the kind of social economics they've been crying that they want here.

Have fun paying 50% taxes.....

[Standing Wolf]

She said she did not want to say exactly where, because her agent told her he received 45 calls in one day from Americans looking to move to the same location.

That probably explains the pigs flying around the neighborhood lately.

[jefnvk]

I will not live in a country where dumb and dumber are my two choices for president.

Well, they got one thing right :rolleyes:

The only solution I see (as much as I would hate it to happen) is to divide the country up into red and blue sections where the blue sections can have all the alternative marriages they want, make any choices about the right to life they want, allow illegal immigrants to flood their borders, and everything else we know we dont want in the red section.

The only problem to thaat is, that when they see how the red is better off, they'll move there. Then, they'll decide to try to implement their ideas there, forgetting that their ideas ruined the blue. Then, we'll be right back where we are now.

Federalist is the way to go.

[stevelyn]

Happiness is 10,000 malcontent socialists headed to Europe with a malcontent socialist under each arm. :evil:

[ojibweindian]

Nothing makes me happier than to hear a sniveling liberal bemoan the loss of Lurch and Tort Boy.

If they want to leave, great! It's about time these deadweights got the hell off of our backs and out of our wallets.

[Eskimo Jim]

I guess I should start offering to pack suitcases for the nutcases.

-Jim

[Phil Ca]

We have accepted the "Brain Drain" from other countries so let other countries accept the "Brainless Drain" from the USA! We will accept the best and brightest and the other countries can accept our dregs, so to speak. :D