Suppressor/round questions


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Greywolf
November 12, 2004, 10:37 AM
OK, I am looking for the overall best round for suppressed work. Here is the list of wants:

1 - AR15 or AR10 platform (semi auto)

2 - As quiet as possible

3 - Accurate with as little drop as possible out to 300 yards

4 - readily available reloading components


I realize some of this list may be mutually excludable - sometimes you have to give on one thing to get better on another. I suppose the most important thing to me is the quietness, followed by the range.

I have done a little research, but it is all pretty confusing to a novice.

Here is what I have come up with so far:

.300 Whisper (problem is that reloading is a pain, as the brass tends to get worn out quickly and/or split in the process of making it)

.338 Whisper (problem is cost - only place to get one is from SSK)

.308 suppressed - haven't done much research here, obviously much less expensive all around, but just how accurate over range and quiet is a .308 subsonic load?

.458 SOCOM - don't know much about it, or what sort of range to expect

6.5 Grendel - no one yet makes a suppressed upper for it, but I could get a good can and a regular upper and see - don't know what the ballistics, accuracy, and range of one would be - uses a .264 bullet.


Thanks for any help, guys. And if this belongs in a different forum, let me know.

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cola8d8
November 12, 2004, 10:56 AM
I will assume you want to stay subsonic. With the being said, to produce more energy you will need to use a heavier bullet. I would personally go with .338+. I have a supressed .44 (ruger 77/44) that works great with 300 grain bullets going 1000-1050

Bubbles
November 12, 2004, 11:33 AM
I have an AWC Thundertrap suppressor on my Rem 700 and I handload subsonic rounds for it. Forget about 300 yard shots - the rounds drop like rocks. I primarily use hand-loaded subsonics for "exurban whitetail" in my area as they are very quiet. I use the standard hunting rounds in the same rifle for deer hunting on farms. While it's a bit noisier since you hear the sonic crack of the bullet in flight, the rifle is still quiet enough to shoot without hearing protection.

0007
November 12, 2004, 12:50 PM
First you have to decide what it is you want a supressed weapon to do. Short range (quiet)target shooting inside the city; shooting small/medium-sized varmits (rats,racoons,opossum,feral dogs and cats) in the city without disturbing the neighbors; shooting large varmits without disturbing the neighbors?... But what everyone else has already said will still hold, there really isn't any 300yd supressed round. You can shoot a 200gr .308 sub-sonic bullet, but at >1000f/s to start out, whenyou start going to 300 yards you will lobbing the bullet like a mortar round.

For relatively close range (~50-100yds) stuff a 9mm 147grain will do most anything that needs doing. For target shooting I would look at the Sentry .22 built by American-Manufacturer. It's a Savage .22 with an integral supressor; whole package should be <$500 + transfer tax.

Greywolf
November 12, 2004, 01:21 PM
So, that "magical" round that can reach out to 200-300 yards with a flat trajectory and stay under 1040 fps doesn't exist, eh? LOL - didn't think so.

What I am mostly interested in is a big enough round to take care of dog-sized or slightly larger game, QUIETLY.

I have a .22 can that is damn quiet with almost any ammo in it, but obviously the range isn't great, nor is the hitting power.

I have a .45 upper for my AR that I could suppress, but again range is an issue.

Was considering a suppressed .300 Whisper and the .458 SOCOM or .50 Beowulf. But then you get into expensive ammo.

Could you load down and suppress .308 effectively and still get 100-150 yards range?

Greywolf
November 12, 2004, 05:44 PM
So, what effective, accurate range with a .308 subsonic can I expect? 100 yards? 200 yards?

Any source for good subsonic reloading data for a .308?

I have an AR-10 with 20" barrel, and am going to get a .30 cal suppressor - I'd be open to suggestions as to what I need to be able to suppress the AR-10 effectively so I don't have to end up spending a ton of money on one of these exotic cartridges.

KaceCoyote
November 12, 2004, 05:52 PM
boy, supressed .50 beowulf would be.......awesome!
:evil: :evil: :evil:

0007
November 13, 2004, 05:12 AM
Excuse me if I am misunderstanding your question(s) here. If you are just trying to keep the noise away from nosy neighbors that is one thing. If you are wanting to keep from blowing out your own ears that's different. Your AR-10 barrel probably won't do a very good job of stablizing the "heavy" (220gr +) .30 cal. bullets. Re-think your priorities/objectives. 100 yard shots are probably max for any realistic shooting. Check out www. swrmfg.com and run the video they have comparing sonic and sub-sonic .30's out of a Remmy + one of their cans. Looks like ~100yds range but I could be wrong. I suggest that you get closer to whatever you plan to shoot if possible, or wait for tomorrow. Not to say that 200yd shots can't be done, just saying that they aren't an ordinary thing with a supressed barrel/sub-sonic round - except in movies. If you have a .45 AR upper why not go with that? 230 gr HP bullet, reload to bring it up to ~1000fps and spend a lot of time at the range getting th trajectory plots down. In the end it will probably come down to how much can you afford to spend...
Bubbles sounds like he knows what he is talking about.

artherd
November 13, 2004, 06:26 AM
Trajectory will all be about the same for pointed rifle rounds at just under supersonic velocity, the heavier rounds will hit harder.

At sonic velocity, your flight time at 300yards will be around 1 full second, so an over simplification at Gee at 9.8 meters/sec^2 that's 4.9 METERS of drop! (!!!)

Since you already have an AR-10, I would simply buy a QD (quick detatch) suppressor for that. Load down your .308 rounds and enjoy.


Or use full-house .308 loads that are still blast suppressed. It won't be silent but it will be far quieter than bare muzzle!

This gives you the most flexability with very minimal $ spent.

Greywolf
November 13, 2004, 07:37 AM
Thanks, gentlemen. Looks like the expensive oddballs (.300 whisper, .338 whisper, et.al.) are going to give way to staying with tried and true, which will allow more of my money to be spent on optics and perhaps some Gen 3 NV - woot!

Jonathan
November 13, 2004, 12:20 PM
Just tossing this out there:

What if you consider dropping the AR platform?


Doing so would open up a lot of options for rounds with much more potential. Here's my thought: 45-70.

It's practically a subsonic round to begin with, especially if you start with readily available heavy lead bullets. Reloading is ridiculously easy, and you can shoot off-the-shelf rounds if you have to. Ballistics and energy are a big step up from even the 458 SOCOM.


Best of all, you can use your suppressor on an AR in 458 if you ever decide to go that route.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v167/mjolnir/Withnightsight.jpg

Bubbles
November 15, 2004, 09:29 AM
Bubbles sounds like he knows what he is talking about.

Yes, SHE does. :D

Something else to consider about using subsonic rounds in a suppressed AR10 - they may not cycle the action properly. This is an issue in the AR15's w/ subsonic .223; I haven't tried subsonic rounds in an AR10 (yet).

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