.308 BR - what type?


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westvirginia
November 12, 2004, 03:13 PM
Hey ya'll! I'm a TFL alum, though I never have posted very often. Due to the end of the ban coinciding with a nice influx of cash for me, I'm probably going to purchase my first "real" battle rifle soon.

After learning from (and paying for) mistakes such as purchasing Century arms and other cheap junk, I finally have realized that you get what you pay for. Thus, I'm going to buy quality (though of course I still don't want to get taken). I'm thinking I want the following:

1. Purchase an AR-10 w/an M4 stock and an A2-type upper. This would be a mil-spec type barrel, 16" with the carry handle and ghost-ring sights.

2. Later, purchase an additional A3-type upper with a 20" heavy tube, flat-top, with one of the electronic sights.

Both barrels will have flash hiders, and all the "evil" accessories I can think of.

I'm thinking that I'd rather have the flexibility of the AR over the FAL or Cetme rifles. I have been burned by the cheap FAL-types before, though, so perhaps I'm just "gun-shy" , so to speak. Any tips, pointers, suggestions, whatever, would be greatly appreciated. I've gone back and forth between just getting a .223 rifle, as they are around 1/2 price here. I think I want the .308, mainly because I have a Mini-14 ranch that I'm very happy with, but I'm not completely certain.

This rifle would be mainly for target shooting (some long-range - 300-500+), I might start in some competitions, etc. And just to have a nice, ban-free black rifle. Thanks in advance for your opinions!

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dbshabo
November 12, 2004, 04:10 PM
Why not get a nice .308 bolt gun if you're going to use it for bench/target shooting? For the price of an AR-10 or BAR-10 you could get a Remmy or Savage .308 bolt gun and have enough left over to get some nice goodies for it.

That being said I want a .308 semi-auto also. Unfortunately for me I haven't come into a windfall of $$. The Bushmaster BAR-10 looks interesting because it is made to use the cheap FAL mags. DSA makes, from what I've read, very nice quality FAL style guns.

Good luck in your search.

Shabo

mustanger98
November 12, 2004, 04:15 PM
From what I've heard, AR-10 never was issued. Because of that, you can't get USGI parts. Mags are converted M-14 and once you convert them, you can't use them in a M-14 because of the difference in how they lock up. And that plastic buttstock- I've heard it's more fragile and won't take a hit on the ground (not that it should be put through abuse anyway, but...).

My opinion- CMP sells real good M1 Garands. I'd get a rack grade (Dane or Greek either one) and rebarrel to .308. I've heard it's got just as good accuracy out to 800yds ('06 is good to 1000yds because of the extra power). They take the same clip in .308 as they do in '06. Or just get you an M-14 and you won't have to worry about the rebarrel and it takes 20rd mags, but it costs more- you can get three Rack Grade M1's for the price of one M-14. And you won't get taken for a ride with CMP.

westvirginia
November 12, 2004, 11:49 PM
Why not get a nice .308 bolt gun if you're going to use it for bench/target shooting? For the price of an AR-10 or BAR-10 you could get a Remmy or Savage .308 bolt gun and have enough left over to get some nice goodies for it.

That being said I want a .308 semi-auto also. Unfortunately for me I haven't come into a windfall of $$. The Bushmaster BAR-10 looks interesting because it is made to use the cheap FAL mags. DSA makes, from what I've read, very nice quality FAL style guns.

Good luck in your search.

Shabo

I actually have a savage 110 in .308, with a heavy barrel. Wonderful rifle, and worth 2X the price IMO. I'm just wanting a real battle rifle.

westvirginia
November 12, 2004, 11:54 PM
From what I've heard, AR-10 never was issued. Because of that, you can't get USGI parts. Mags are converted M-14 and once you convert them, you can't use them in a M-14 because of the difference in how they lock up. And that plastic buttstock- I've heard it's more fragile and won't take a hit on the ground (not that it should be put through abuse anyway, but...).

My opinion- CMP sells real good M1 Garands. I'd get a rack grade (Dane or Greek either one) and rebarrel to .308. I've heard it's got just as good accuracy out to 800yds ('06 is good to 1000yds because of the extra power). They take the same clip in .308 as they do in '06. Or just get you an M-14 and you won't have to worry about the rebarrel and it takes 20rd mags, but it costs more- you can get three Rack Grade M1's for the price of one M-14. And you won't get taken for a ride with CMP.

I actually have a good CMP garand, though in the original .30-06. I didn't know that about the mags. Is that true, that Eugene Stoner never designed a "normal" mag for the gun? Maybe I should just get an M-1A, but I really (really really really badly!) want an "evil black rifle". Then I guess I should get a regular AR-15, or an FAL. Am I the only guy that lusts for a .308 battle rifle???? I'm certainly not trying to be insulting, I just want the opinions of the most knowledgeable group of firearms guys I know.

Dave R
November 13, 2004, 12:03 AM
I think your only other option is a 'quality' FAL like a DSA/STG

Kaylee
November 13, 2004, 12:06 AM
First.. in your place I'd get a flat top upper to start with, and add a detachable carry handle if you really wanted A2 type sights. Cheaper in the long run. :)

Second.. what do you mean by "electronic" sights? red dot like an aimpoint or EOTEch or the like? Or some other fancy thing?

Personally, I'm thinkin' the role of the .308 semi-auto tends to be for farther out than the poodleshooters, but less.... deliberate than heavy barelled "varmint" rigs.. the DMR, as it were.

In that case you might not want the relatively coarse sighting of a 4MOA dot or the like, but would be better off with say a compact 4X or so with a built-in BDC. Likewise, you wouldn't want a high-high magnification scope that weighed a ton.

If I were in your shoes, wanting what you seem to be wanting...
I'd get a 16-18" Bushy AR-10 (so I could use cheap FAL mags) with a flat top upper, detatchable carry handle, and fixed front sight tower. I'd leave a full stock on it, perhaps an adjustable LOP one, but not a collapsible carbine stock. (Again, the role seems to be packable DMR, not short entry-type carbine).

Finally, I'd look about for a compact scope, preferably with a fixed reticule similar to the Springfield ranging reticule or the Dragunov type glass -- both pretty much handle your drop with a "point-and-click" type interface out for hundreds of yards.

Have fun, whatever you do. :)

Sven
November 13, 2004, 12:18 AM
Nothing wrong with an M1A in my view. Heck of a Battle Rifle.

Headless Thompson Gunner
November 13, 2004, 12:37 AM
AR-10 magazines are modified M14 magazines. The main distinguishing feature is that the AR-10 magazine has a cutout on the side, similar to that of the AR-15 magazine. This allows the AR-10 to use a straight-drop type magazine insertion, rather than the tilt-in rotating magazine insertion common with the older designs like the FAL and M14. I've never tried it, but I can't think of any reason why an AR-10 magazine wouldn't work in an M14.

The AR-10 is a great rifle compared to all of the other designs. It's more accurate, lighter weight, has great ergonomics, and superb flexibility when it comes to sights and trigger options. The extra precision means it's probably not as robust, though, so be sure to keep it cleaned and oiled properly.

It's generally inadvisable to buy an AR with a fixed carry handle, as this severly limits your options in the future. Buy a flat-top with a detachable carry handle if you really want the iron sights. Telescoping stocks have always felt flimsy to me, but I suppose that's just personal preference.

Domino
November 13, 2004, 01:22 AM
The Bushmaster BAR-10 would be a great choice if you want to spend the money. I would like a semi-auto .308 rifle and my choices would be a DSA FAL, Springfield M1 Socom, VEPR Hunter or Super, or a cheapo CETME. But for a real .308, my vote goes for a Savage 10fp with money left for goodies, WOOT.

Swampy
November 13, 2004, 10:19 AM
Headless Gunner wrote:

I've never tried it, but I can't think of any reason why an AR-10 magazine wouldn't work in an M14.

IIRC... the lug on the back of the M14 mag has to be removed to make it fit the AR-10 mag well. After that there is no way for it to lock up in an M14.

I could be wrong on this... but this is what I'm remembering about the M14 mag conversion info I received some years back when I was considering such a purchase.

Best regards,
Swampy

Garands forever

Headless Thompson Gunner
November 13, 2004, 04:35 PM
All of the AR-10 magazines that I have on hand still have that lug attached. The magazine well is relieved in the back to allow that lug to pass through. Now I really am curious whether or not AR-10 magazines would function in M14s...

dbshabo
November 15, 2004, 09:14 AM
Anyone out there know if Armalite is gonna offer AR-10 mags now that the ban is over? Hopefully for a reasonable price. That is the only reason I wouldn't buy one of these rifles now, well that and I don't have the $$.

Shabo

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