[monsternav]

AIM and J&G both have some right now. Anybody get any recently? What kind of shape are they in?

[Okiecruffler]

I'm waiting for a report on these too. I know the last batch to make it over here was very nasty. Actions and barrrels weren't bad, but wood was some of the nastiest I've ever seen. I hope these are better.

[jefnvk]

I checked ou tone at Dunhams. Pretty rough, even by C&R standards. I have no doubt that it'd clean up and shoot, though.

[The Grand Inquisitor]

I have a Yugo/Egyptian M48 Mauser, so I can not speak for the Turk Mauser specifically, but my Mauser is great and a damned good shooter- the 8mm is strong and plentiful for a good price, and with time you should be able to shoot good groups with it.

The shop I buy my rifles from has one Turk Mauser and it is well worn and may need a good amount of work to be better than average. If you are really desiring a WWII era/C&R style rifle, it may not be a bad idea to save up another month and get a nice Garand from CMP. I bought the Garand on a whim to augment my other WWII rifles and without my expecting it, it went on from being something to buy because I emjoy the rifles of the era and I was at the CMP store with a friend with a bit of extra money, to one of my favorite rifles that I really cherish owning and shooting.

[Zeke Menuar]

I bought a 45 KKale from Allan's Armory to use as a training excerise. Looked like an entire division of Turkish mounted cavalry trampled over it. The wood was so bad I gave up on the stock and ordered a better walnut stock from a member of Parallax Bill's site.

No bluing and minor pitting under the stockline. The bore is so-so. Still using Wipeout to get the crud out. Been at it for two weeks now and crud is still coming out.

In my own case I knew what I was getting. I specifically wanted a real beater to rebuild and practice my bad gunsmithing skills.

I don't think I would order one sight unseen and I would definately bring along some headspace gauges. The chamber on mine borders on too big.


ZM

[Chipperman]

In my experience (from gun shops, not ordering), Turk Mausers are among the worst condition C&R rifles going around.

[yesterdaysyouth]

i got this 03/38 from sog last week... the wood is great, and the steel isn't too bad... but as usual extractor is broken, it's a curse... yugo will be here tommorow...

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=18433&stc=1

[Okiecruffler]

Extractors are a dime a dozen, or you could send it back for another one. But if it's in good shape I'd probably just pick up a new extractor. Those Turks can be real shooters.

[Onmilo]

The guns are rough and greasy.
Lots of receiver pitting under the wood.
Bores are pretty good as most of these were rebarrelled sometime in the distant pass.
They aren't suitable for sporterizing but could make a decent as is shooter.

[.45&TKD]

"but as usual extractor is broken, it's a curse... "

Are broken extractors common to Turkish Mausers?

[yesterdaysyouth]

Are broken extractors common to Turkish Mausers?

i don't know, but the last two mausers i've got have had broken extractors...

[monsternav]

I'm gettin' one anyway. I'm thinking Yugo M48 or 24/47 next. Anyone have opions on these? I'm thinking Allan's Armory for those.

Current collection:
M-1
Yugo SKS - M59/66
M38 - laminated M44 stock
K31 - closest thing to a lasergun I own
Non-C&R
Model 70 in 30-06
SA 45 Mil-Spec

[wrench]

I bought one of these last week at a local Fleet Farm, on sale for $89.99. I know you can get them cheaper on the internet, but after reading often about the poor condition, I thought it would be better if I could pick one out myself.
Looked through six of them...the one I got is a 1942 K.Kale, has a beautiful walnut stock, a few dings but nothing serious, all matching numbers except the bolt. Best surprise was after getting it home and running a few patches through the bore, bright and shiny with strong rifling.
haven't gotten it to the range yet, but so far I'm happy :)

[Malone LaVeigh]

They're going for $80 at the Big 5 here. Advertised as "Made in Germany." I was thinking about a project converting one to .308. Does anyone know how much work would have to be done to the receiver and bolt to pull that off? My main reason for thinking .308 would be a good caliber is that I would want a shorter barrel, and the 7.62 seems to work well in some carbine-length military barrels. I already made the mistake of buying a carbine-length Mosin.

[c-bag]

I saw two at a shop last week. The wood looked like a dog had chewed on it and it felt too "chunky" in my hands. Compared to the Mosin-Nagents they were real dogs.

[Clark]

I bought about 20 of the 1903s and 5 of the 1938s when they were at BIG5 for $50 and I could use my cleaning rod on them to choose one.

Usually the 1938s have the better bores, but...

I got a 1903 with broken mag spring that looked like it had never been shot.
I did a trigger job, bent the bolt, drilled and tapped, did a glass bed job, handloaded some 2630 fps 200 gr Sierra Match Kings, and it does a 1" 5 shot group at 100 meters!

[.45&TKD]

Clark,

"I bought about 20 of the 1903s and 5 of the 1938s"

Thanks for sharing. Now I don't feel bad about some of my compulsive purchases.

[Zeke Menuar]

Malone LaVeigh

My main reason for thinking .308 would be a good caliber is that I would want a shorter barrel

Turkish Mauser is 8x57mm which is a very good round in its own right.

Why not make it a 8mm-06? One pass through the sizing die with 30-06 brass and you're done.

A conversion to .308 isn't possble without a barrel switch.

ZM

[cracked butt]

I was thinking about a project converting one to .308. Does anyone know how much work would have to be done to the receiver and bolt to pull that off?

I haven't done one myself, but I have at least 1 turk that I'm looking to convert to something else- most likely a 6.5x55, mainly because there are places where a new swedish barrel could be bought for cheap, and the conversion would be very simple.

The bolt needs no modifications- 30-06, 8x57, .308, etc, all have the same sized rim.
The barrel that you would need would be for a small ring mauser- most likely. Most turks have a large ring mauser receiver by exterior dimensions, but are threaded for a small ring mauser barrel- its best to have the barrel pulled off before ordering a replacement.

If it shoots real good, I would leave it alone. It takes some effort to find the right components, but 8x57 can be reloaded to have better ballistics than a .308.

[cracked butt]

I bought one of these last week at a local Fleet Farm, on sale for $89.99

I'll have to keep my eye out now. The Fleet Farms in my area started selling noisy magnets and SKSs sometime this year, but I haven't seen a turk yet. I guess I'll go shopping at the 'Men's Mall' today. :)

[Malone LaVeigh]

The reason I wanted a shorter barrel is because I want to learn to shoot left-handed. I have a severe left-eye dominance problem and am thinking it's time to bite the bullet and go lefty. In working the bolt with my right, I'd need less weight out on the lever arm to keep it controlled by my left. I really don't want to start all over buying left-handed rifles.

If the 8x57 can be reloaded with a faster powder for a short barrel, that might be an option. I'm guessing the milsurp would be designed for the long barrel. Again, this is based on my experience with my M38, so I could be completely wrong on this.

Again, thanks for all of the info. This is strictly in the pipe-dream stage, but I guess I have a lot of options. I wonder how long these Mausers will be available at these prices?

[Swampy]

Malone,

IF you want a "short" Mauser.... go for the Yugo M48 series or the M24/47's that are still around. These are available for very reasonable prices and are generally in MUCH better shape than the Turks. AIM still shows the M24/47's for sale for $119.

Condition of the the M48's can vary widely. Many of them were rode hard and stored after the Bosnians got through with them. Ask very pointed questions about condition if you plan on buying one of these "sight unseen". I was lucky enough to buy a "Like New-Excellent" M48-A from AIM when they had them 3 years ago. It truly was an un-issued rifle. Absolutely NO wear marks in the blueing. Unfortunately, the only ones still available like this today are the ones from Mitchells Mausers... and they are outrageously priced.

Many of the M24/47's... OTOH.. were re-arsenaled and re-finished before being stored away. These are some SWEET Mausers. I own a couple and have been impressed with both the way they finished out and how they shoot. These can still be found from several suppliers for less than $120.

BTW... Most of the 8mm surplus ammo out there has been manufactured since the end of WWII. From before WWII most Mausers in use in Europe were of the "short", Karabiner style, for which the ammo you find available today was made. Probably the only ammo made post WWII for "long" Mausers is the Turk surplus.

You can see some of my Mausers on my website at www.swampworks.com/SwampysStuff-home.html

Best regards,
Swampy

Garands forever

[longrifleman]

I already made the mistake of buying a carbine-length Mosin.

Explain please. I've been thinking of a M-38 or 39 to go with my 91-30. Other than the muzzle blast what problems have you had?

Has anyone tried handloading to reduce the blast from the shorter barrel?
Shouldn't a lighter charge of a slightly faster powder get almost the same velocity without the blast, or am I crazy?

[cracked butt]

What Swampy said. You can get a 24/47 here http://samcoglobal.com/rifles.htm

They are nicer rifles than the M48s. Alot of the M48's are going to have badly pitted barrels or will be way overpriced. I have one of the former, and it shoots realy good, but only after I did a lot of scrubbing of the barrel.

[Swampy]

longrifleman wrote:

Explain please. I've been thinking of a M-38 or 39 to go with my 91-30. Other than the muzzle blast what problems have you had?

Unlike the Karabiner Mausers... for which most countries made their 8mm ammo to match the shorter barrels long before WWII, the Russkies and other Commie bloc countries didn't change their 7.62x54R ammo from that used in the earlier longer barreled rifles to match the shorter barrels of the M44-M39 types.

As a result, the "shorty" Mosin-Nagants have a huge muzzle blast-flame.

On the flip side, Karabiner style 8mm Mausers shooting just about any post WWII milsurp ammo (excepting Turk) do not have an out of the ordinary blast-flame. No different than shooting an M1 or '03 Springfield with Lake City surplus.

Best to all,
Swampy

[Clark]

The short actions; M48, 24/47, 03 Turk, and 38 Turk are not good candidates for 30-06 or 8mm-06 conversion.

A better candidate is the VZ24, and still, there is steel to be filed out of the magazine to make it longer.

I am satisfied with 8x57, 7x57, 6.5x55, 6mm Rem, 6.5x57, and 257 Roberts length cartridges in surplus Mauser actions. I have also gone shorter, with 308, 243, and 45acp.

[Malone LaVeigh]

Explain please. I've been thinking of a M-38 or 39 to go with my 91-30. Other than the muzzle blast what problems have you had?

I was mostly talking about the recoil.

[.45&TKD]

"The short actions; M48, 24/47, 03 Turk, and 38 Turk are not good candidates for 30-06 or 8mm-06 conversion."

Could someone please define the terms short action/long action and small ring/large ring?

I thought that the 38 Turk was a "large ring" mauser, but I am surprised to hear that it is a "short action", different from a VZ-24.

[.45&TKD]

"The short actions; M48, 24/47, 03 Turk, and 38 Turk are not good candidates for 30-06 or 8mm-06 conversion."

Could someone please define the terms short action/long action and small ring/large ring?

I thought that the 38 Turk was a "large ring" mauser, but I am surprised to hear that it is a "short action", different from a VZ-24.

[BenW]

Malone -- I wouldn't worry too much about the recoil on the Mauser whether you convert to .308 or stick to 8mm. I shoot a Rem 788 carbine in .308, and even with hot loads, recoil is no big deal. If you go 8mm, keep in mind surplus ammo like Turk 8mm, can run pretty darn hot, but US commercial 8mm ammo is actually quite mild. As I recall, you have gotten into reloading, and 8mm is actually quite versatile if you reload it.

If it were me, I would concur with the recommendations for either VZ24, Yugo 24-47, or Yugo M48. I have some of each of those and really like them. The VZ-24 and the 24-47 come with straight bolt handles, which I actually like shooting left-handed as my hand is just that much closer to the bolt handle. I would (well I do actually) keep them in 8MM instead of convert. By the time you convert, the cost will be at least as much as a commerical .308 carbine (I think anyway - someone with experience can chime in here). Each of the above rifles can be found in either "unissued", "like new", or "re-arsenaled" condition. The M-48 in excellent condition may be harder to find nowadays as mentioned earlier.

Another rifle to consider, especially if you reload, is the Swiss K-31. I don't think there's a K-31 in existence that isn't a tack driver. I'm not sure what the options are for re-stocking to a slimmer stock or any other after-market stuff though. The K-31s are available for around $80 right now, which is actually cheaper than they what they were going for just a year ago.

I've written all this based on the premise that you are looking for a good rifle without throwing a bunch of money into a project.

[Swampy]

45&TKD wrote:

I thought that the 38 Turk was a "large ring" mauser, but I am surprised to hear that it is a "short action", different from a VZ-24.

Technically the Turk 38 is a "large ring" action.... but for some silly reason the Turks threaded the receiver and barrels the same as a "small ring" mauser.

VZ24 Czech's are a true "Large ring" action with "large ring" threads.

You just have to be sure of what type action you have when trying to find a barrel to fit.

Best to all,
swampy

Garands forever

[Clark]

When I said long, I meant the bolt and magazine are ~ 1/4" longer.

The shorter 98s really stretch to fit an 8mm cartridge in the magazine.
Look at the cut out [for bullet tip clearance] on the front ring of an 03 Turk.

The VZ24, 98/22, and K98s comming into the country right now are longer, but not long enough for 30-06 class cartridges without cutting metal out of the front end of the magazine box.


At any rate, I believe that the 98 Mauser is superior to the Rem 700, Win 70, 91/30, K31, Arisaka, and any other rifles in my gun storage.
Stick with the medium length cartridges; 6mm Rem, 257 Roberts, 6.5x55, 7x57, and 8x57, or even the short cartridges; 22-250, 243, 250 Savage, 260 Rem, 7mm-08, 308, and 358.

Later on the next rifel you can mess with 300 Win mag, 30-06, etc and solve the space and feeding problems.

[monsternav]

Well my rifle got here today. Not quite the fright pig that I feared it would be. It is just soaked in cosmoline though, my first C&R to be this nasty. There were some pine needles mixed with the cosmo under the bolt when I pulled it back :confused: . The stock doesn't seem to be beat up at all. I'll take it apart tomorrow and post some pictures.

[Lochaber]

I have two of these fine rifles. One of them I spent some time restoring. It came out of the box looking like a stick which someone used to mix a barrel of nasty cooking grease, but last winter the weather kept me away from the range so I needed something to do:

http://gabrielescu.com/gunpics/kkale-1946-receiver.jpg
http://gabrielescu.com/gunpics/kkale-1946.jpg
http://gabrielescu.com/gunpics/kkale-1946-buttplate.jpg
http://gabrielescu.com/gunpics/kkale-1946-sling.jpg
http://gabrielescu.com/gunpics/kkale-both.jpg

The rifle was completely striped down and cleaned. The bluing was touched up with Oxopho Blue from Brownells. All the old brass screws were replaced with new ones, but that involved filling the old screw wholes and redrilling them and the bolt was polished.

The stock was cleaned and cleaned and cleaned with various chemicals then dried a lot to remove all trace of comosline (you would be amazed how much of it gets sucked into the wood grain.) Then it was sanded, the dents were pulled out, and it lightly stained (red mahagony). Finally, it was finished with about 12 light coats of hand applied linseed oil.

At 100 yards it shoots about as well as I can get the iron sights to align:
http://gabrielescu.com/gunpics/elly-sb-small.jpg
That group was shot with 196gr S&B ammo and it does almost as well with Turk surplus. I suspect it would do even better with both if the sights were not as terrible as they are.

Loch

[monsternav]

Right Outta' the box

[monsternav]

Notice my Bonus Pine Needle in the action. This is a K Kale from 1940. Anything interesting about these? I have no Mauser references at home. Oddly enough my Soviet M38 is serial # 9179. Yes that is my flight boot propping up the rifle.

[Clark]

monsternav,
That is in the best shape I have ever seen a 38 Turk.
Was that the hand pick from AIM?

[Lochaber]

Thats should cleanup very nicely. It looks like you got a keeper.

Loch

[Okiecruffler]

That one looks a ton better than the last one I bought. It looked like it had pine needles all over it but they were just splinters from the stock. :( Finally sold to a guy who needed a mauser action. The one I have now, the first I ever bought, is just cherry except for an arsenal repair at the wrist. My son plays with it most of the time now, his eyes are better, and can bust clays at 100yrds with it and turk ammo. Great old guns.

[monsternav]

Clarke: Yes, handpick from AIM.

I have it apart now. No pitting at all on the metal under the wood. The bolt had some rust/crud type stuff in some places, but it has come off with some oil, a bronze brush and some elbow grease. Bore seems to be darn near perfect. No debris, frost or pitting that I can see. It may not be the original. I suspect that the rifle has been re-arsenalled because there are some parts that are an iridescent blue color (bolt catch,rear sight), not the typical flat black-ish color from blueing.