Pulled over while carrying


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squire
February 27, 2003, 01:16 PM
I got pulled over for the first time since I got my concealed carry permit. I was un aware that I had a tail light out. In Florida you don't have to tell the office that you have a weapon. I work at a car dealership and was driving a vehicle from the lot with dealer tags. Had I been driving my personal car, he would of known that I a permit before he walked up to the car. When he did I gave him my drivers license, he returned to his car and then he knew. I didn't know what to expect when he returned running my drivers license. He said " I could of written you a ticket, but I just wrote you a warning." I wonder if having a c.w.p. actually helped me out a little bit. On the other hand I have to wonder if the stop would of been more "intense" had I been driving my personal car?

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JPM70535
February 27, 2003, 01:31 PM
Squire,

Do you know something I don't. I was unaware that Fl. Registration check or DL check returned the info that you were a CCW holder. Can you enlighten me?

synoptic
February 27, 2003, 01:32 PM
It seems to me that anyone willing to go through the course and pay the money for a permit is fairly law abiding and prolly isn't out looking for trouble. I would also guess that officers feel similar, and the stop would possibly be less intense had he known before approaching the vehicle that you had your permit. As far as not telling goes, i personally think it is better to tell the officer right away that you have your license and are carrying, that way there isn't a possibility of him freaking out if the gun flashes or you're printing. Of course, to each his own, but when i get my CHL I will inform the officer as soon as possible when i am pulled over.

Blackhawk
February 27, 2003, 01:40 PM
That's news to me. I thought FL required you to show your CHP if you were carrying and asked for ID by a LEO.

squire
February 27, 2003, 01:42 PM
JPM70535


This is what I was basing that statement on:

"There is no legal requirement that a licensee inform an officer that he/she is armed; however, prudence and common sense would indicate that it's certainly a good idea. It's better for the officer to hear it from _you_ first, because if he runs your Florida Drivers License he WILL be informed "Caution! Subject has Concealed Weapons License." by the dispatcher."

http://www.packing.org/state/index.jsp/florida

Blackhawk
February 27, 2003, 01:49 PM
I go with Prudence whenever I can. :D

synoptic
February 27, 2003, 01:52 PM
"If you are asked by a law enforcement officer to show ID (as in a traffic stop), you are REQUIRED to volunteer that fact if you are armed and show your CHL along with driver's license. When they run your DL, it will show if you have a Texas Resident CHL, so they WILL find out."


Wow, looks like here in Texas I have no choice but to tell them anyways.

dinosaur
February 27, 2003, 02:38 PM
Each state has its own rules. Here in Pa. you don`t have to and it`s not in the computer. I myself wouldn`t say unless asked.

However, if it looks like it`s a felony stop, and you might get that idea because there should be a lot of yelling and guns, I might change my mind. :what:

aerod1
February 27, 2003, 07:41 PM
I have been stopped a couple of times in Texas. I conducted myself appropriately by showing both my DL and CHL and had no problem. I did get a traffic ticket though.
Jim Hall

COHIBA
February 27, 2003, 07:56 PM
"CAUTION, SUBJECT HAS CONCEALED WEAPONS LICENCE"???????

***?

caution suject has a tire iron...
caution subject has a pocket knife...
caution "SUBJECT HAS A 2-FRIGGIN-TON BLUDGEON"

Standing Wolf
February 27, 2003, 09:19 PM
It's my understanding I'm not required by Colorado law to inform an officer I'm legally carrying a concealed firearm, but I'd do it as a courtesy and a way to avoid the appearance of trying to be sneaky.

Curiously, my driving has become considerably more conservative since getting my permit.

voilsb
February 27, 2003, 09:55 PM
interesting. that makes me wanna check if oregon requires you to show, and/or if you show up anyway when they run your DL.

of course, I don't have a car and I don't drive (except rarely), so it doesn't really matter to me. but I'm still curious

Blackhawk
February 27, 2003, 10:04 PM
voilsb,

According to packing.org, you have to show your CHL on demand:Must volunteer carry status to Law Enforcement
Date updated: Saturday, February 15, 2003

No. Must present permit to Officer on demand.

ayeaye
February 27, 2003, 10:16 PM
Go to http://www.packing.org/ for specifics on your state.

A good site.

I always carry when I travel. Even in states without reciprocity.

I'd rather give up one of my Mak's or PA-63's than lose an "argument" with some nutball at an interstate reststop.

ranger7
February 27, 2003, 10:27 PM
At my favorite gun store I had a discussion with 2 LEOs (different agencies) about volunteering that you are carrying. One LEO said he thought you should always volunteer the info.

The other said some of the officers in his department tended to get nervous when they were informed a driver was carrying. His advice was not to volunteer unless the gun wasn't concealed well or you were going to have to get out of the vehicle. He mentioned the phrase, "Ignorance is bliss."

Alan

goon
February 27, 2003, 10:28 PM
I got a speeding ticket one my way home from the range. I had a snubbied tucked into the small of my back, a loaded 9mm in the case on the passenger seat, and an AK behind the seat. I did tell the cop right away, and he thanked me for being forthcoming and just asked me to keep them put away.
No big deal at all.
He still gave me the ticket, but he did cut it back because I didn't try to BS him.

Bily Lovec
February 28, 2003, 08:07 AM
why hide it from the guy ? we're all on the same side, or did you know that ?

window down, both hands on the top of the wheel with BOTH liscenses between a couple of fingers, just tell the guy, officer i have a handgun under the console,....

works for me, works for them, .. do you want a nervous cop outside and behind your car door ??

Dave P
February 28, 2003, 08:53 AM
"we're all on the same side, "

Bill, I don't feel that way when I hear stories of pet dogs being shotgunned and families being threatened for no good reason.

Kreed
February 28, 2003, 08:59 AM
Florida law does not require that CCW permit holders notify police if they are carrying.

Of course, you may at your own discretion. But the law does not require this, and I advise not.

Yes, this may be a good idea, but then again, it may not. Depending on the individual you are dealing with, notifying the police officer that you are carrying may itself lead to unfortunate behaviors on his part. Why risk it? The operative word in concealed carry is "concealed", and since you are a law-abiding, peaceful citizen, why unnecessarily risk setting off alarm bells?

I have interacted with police on several occasions while carrying -- at parades, at Jeb Bush's election rally, in a convience store, at the local Chinese food place fetching my take-out, and even once when I was pulled over (and talked my way out of a ticket). What they didn't know obviously did not hurt them. If they were observant enough to ask, I would have told them right then and there and readily show them my permit (which is also the law). Bottom line, if I am to trust them, then they must trust me.

Your mileage may vary.

Double Naught Spy
February 28, 2003, 09:03 AM
I do concur that it may not be in your best interest to tell a LEO about a legally carried firearm if you are in a state where you don't have to mention it. We are all on the same side, only not everybody our side is quite aware of that. There are some LEOs who think legal concealed carry is a bad thing. Some feel threatened knowing the person for whom they are about to right a ticket is carrying a gun and that the ticket is not going to make the gun toter happy. In other words, what may make the cop nervous is specifically knowing you are armed.

From personal experience here in Texas, having a CHL and being armed is just fine, but wearing body armor (I was coming from the range) made the cop who stopped me back up to the C pillar and snug up to the car when he spotted it on me. Unless I am in a huge hurry to get to the range or home, I don't wear my body armor while driving for that reason.

keyhole
February 28, 2003, 09:27 AM
Well as a LEO for about 18 years, and an avid Second Ammendment supporter, I have no problem with persons getting CCW permits, after all, they are obeying the law. That's something that I use in the argument that the state I reside in should have a carry law, ( they do not now, and have beaten it down twice). Those who want to do the right thing, are not the problem. I know that there are a lot who do carry, without any criminal intent, doing so for protection, and I would like to see them get the chance to do so legally. As for carrying in a car, I have told many not to worry, as all car stops are done, ( or should be) with extreme caution, as you never know what you may be dealing with. I have carried, and been stopped, and never offered to inform who stopped me of the fact. If I was to be requested to step out of the car, things would change, as I would not want the suprise of finding the gun, or guns. I agree about turning the lights on at night, and keeping your hands in plain veiw. Makes the approaching officers job easier, and will let him know that you are less likely to pose a problem.

shfttrsh
February 28, 2003, 09:35 AM
I'm sorry, but I just don't get it. We are legal, with the exception of the alleged traffic violation and everyone acts as if the police are going to blast away. I drive a red sports car that has been called a "ticket magnet" (my heavy foot doesn't help). I am almost always armed and I travel between two states that do not have an agreement(in the state where I do not have a permit weapon goes in the glove box). I have been stopped in both states and follow the same procedure in both states: Driver's lic. and permit in hand, boyh hands on wheel in normal driving position,engine off and window down, decent attitude. When Officer asks for lic and registration he gets permit too and is advised that I am carrying in the vehicle. In every case the officers have not freaked or over-reacted they have asked where the weapon is located and that has been it. No big deal. Sometimes I get out of the ticket and somestimes I don"t. If we act like we are doing something wrong when we carry then we will send up a red flag to any law enforcement officers that we interact with. We ARE legal.

Kreed
February 28, 2003, 09:41 AM
Right you are, keyhole.

If the LEO asked me to step out of the car, then I would deem it expedient to notify him/her that I was carrying. As the situation changes, so do your decisions and subsequent actions.

I have heard that, when you are pulled over, typically the LEO has already entered your car license# into the onboard computer that all police vehicles seem to have nowadays, and if you have a CCW, that will show up on the display before the tires even stop rolling. Dunno if that's true or not, but it would not surprise me.

Coronach
February 28, 2003, 11:25 AM
"CAUTION, SUBJECT HAS CONCEALED WEAPONS LICENCE"????? Well, think about it this way. It prevents a LOT of misunderstandings if the officer is helping you change your flat tire and notices the pistole poking out of your IWB. Sure, this is done for officer safety, but it is also done for citizen safety as well. Anything that helps prevents bullets from flying is a good thing.

My usual advice in this area is:

1. If you're required to notify the LEO, notify the LEO.

2. If you are NOT required to notify the LEO, consider doing so anyway...especially as this might be an investigative stop, not a traffic stop. This, obviously, is personal choice. Sometimes indeed ignorance is bliss.

3. If you are going to step from the vehicle or if asked/requested/ordered to do so, absolutely tell the LEO. You're a Good Guy, but if you are getting out of the car it is becoming more likely that the firearm will be seen, and also more likely that you are not being stopped for a traffic infraction, but possibly because a vehicle matching yours was used in a recent, nearby crime. We don't have Electronic Good Guy detectors...you know you're a Good Guy, we don't.

4. If the firearm is concealed in the vehicle, and you have to go near it to get something while in contact with the officer, tell him. He might get the wrong idea when the glove box flops open, and he sees you reaching "for" your 1911.

Mike

Coronach
February 28, 2003, 11:27 AM
I have heard that, when you are pulled over, typically the LEO has already entered your car license# into the onboard computer that all police vehicles seem to have nowadays, and if you have a CCW, that will show up on the display before the tires even stop rolling. Dunno if that's true or not, but it would not surprise me.It depends.

It depends on whether or not the CCW license info is tied to BMV/DMV info. SOme places it is, some places it is not. It also depends on the officer (some don't eneter the data until they make contact, why, I don't know), the situation, and whether or not the :cuss: compter is working on any given day. ;)

Mike

synoptic
February 28, 2003, 11:38 AM
Just like gun owners, not all LEO's are competant. I would rather tell the officer that I am carrying and him be a little nervous around me (in which case you could always offer to stick it in the trunk), than to have an incompetant cop who I didn't tell and noticed my gun printing or catches a glimpse as I fumble for my wallet and gets scared and shoots me. It sounds far fetched, but you'd be amazed at some of the stories I have heard where I work about what some cops have done in the past.

disclaimer - I don't feel all cops are bad or incompetant, just a select few...

squire
February 28, 2003, 02:37 PM
I chose not to say anything in this instance because the deputy came up to me and talked to me, before he had any of my personal information. The plate on the vehicle was a dealer plate and registered to the dealership, not me. I was very respectful to the deputy, as usual, and I didn't think it was necessary to advise him that I had a weapon in the car. I think the saying "ignorance is bliss" rang true in my scenario.

Had I been in my personal car, he would have known that I had a concealed weapons license before he even stepped out of his car.

Charles S
February 28, 2003, 03:07 PM
synoptic is correct. In Texas it is a requirement of the license to notify a police officer that he has a permit if the license is armed.

I have had very good luck being pulled over when I am armed, I am almost always armed.

When I am pulled over I pull as far to the right as possible to give the police officer room, they are actually quiet nervous about being hit by a motorist during a traffic stop. I remain in the vehicle, I turn the vehicle off, I place the keys on the dash, if it is dark a turn on the lights inside the vehicle, I have my licence, permit and proof of incurrence where I don't have to dig around for them or reach in the glove box. When the officer approaches I have both hands on the steering wheel, at the top so the officer can see I am a nice boy, with the above mentioned items in my hand. When the officer approaches I politely hand him my documentation and announce that I am carrying and where I am carrying.

I have been stopped a total of two times since I received my first permit to carry, and interacted with an officer two more times, one when an officer stopped to assist me and a second when I had stopped to assist a disabled motorist. The time the officer stopped to assist me he chose to disarm me. The other times I was not disarmed. I for one respect what law enforcement officers do, I will go out of my way to make them feel comfortable with an individual who carries a weapon legally.

Charles

JMLV
February 28, 2003, 11:33 PM
I have a friend with a nice ding in his ruger SP101 from a philly cops command to "MF drop it MF drop it MF now!" This after he gave her the permit with his drivers licence (and while looking down the barrel of her 40 caliber glock as well.
He was not permitted to retrive his gun from the road untill the "officer"(I use the word loosly here) left. real professional huh.

MitchSchaft
March 1, 2003, 01:06 AM
It depends on whether or not the CCW license info is tied to BMV/DMV info.

FYI for anyone wantings to know, TN doesn't have that info in their patrol car PC. They can ask the dispatcher and find out, though.

MitchSchaft
March 1, 2003, 01:07 AM
And I agree with JMLV. Courteous or not, it's not their business unless you're asked to get outta the car.

Jedi_7.62
March 1, 2003, 01:09 AM
My philosophy is if the LEO looks young or trigger happy don't tell unless they are likely to see it.

For oldert officers or Leo's who seem more relaxed I think it curious to inform them.

My reasoning Once I was pulled over by a very young looking officer I was carrying IWB next to my wallet. I politely informed the LEO just good sense. I was pulled out of the car like a criminal on the side of the road spread eagle and padded down. (after he removed my gun) During this 2 more units arrive on scene. I'm standing along side the road looking like some crack head getting arrested for who knows what. My weapon was unloaded and placed in my trunk.

They waited and made me leave first so I had to stop at a gas station couple miles away to retrieve my gun.

By the way I gave him my permit the car was clean as I had it for a few years and I purchased the gun new from store.

I've never understood why I was treated this way. My only guess is some rookie scared to death and can't tell good guys from bad guys.

Older officers have been much more curtious and even friendly after being informed.

At least the rookie didn't give me the ticket but he sure embarassed me.

Double Naught Spy
March 1, 2003, 09:47 AM
Wow, what does a trigger happy officer look like? I don't think I have ever knowingly seen one.

As for the repeated comments that "we are all on the same side," I wish that were true. I have been some places where the law is the law and as an outsider, I was at their whims. Heck, in East Texas, my brother was given a court appearance via a pay telephone where upon the judge found him guilty of speeding and ordered the fine paid immediately to the deputy or spend one night in jail while paying for his vehicle to be towed and impounded.

As an LEO buddy of mine notes, people often talk themselves into tickets or jail if given enough chance to talk. If you are pulled over for speeding, don't have to tell the officer you are legally armed (by law not required), and if the officer does not ask, then you don't need to tell. I don't mean to suggest any sort of obstruction of justice or officer safety, only that I will let the officer determine whatever information he deems necessary to ask and then comply fully.

Here in Texas, we do have to inform the officer and in my too numerous stops, all have been very cool about concealed carry, very professional.

Jedi_7.62
March 1, 2003, 12:37 PM
Well I'm very happy for you if you have never seen a trigger happy officer but what they look like is defined by how they act and carry themselves.

The fingerless gloves, the big mirrored glasses the cocky strut that says hey I think I'm billy bad ***, oh and most of all weapon half out of holster before they reach your car.

I'm not in the military nor am I a criminal so I do not expect an officer to speak to me as if he is my drill sgt. nor do I expect to be treated as a felon with no justification, especially when I've extended nothing but curtousy and politeness.

This is not intended as an insult to LEO's in any manner. I have great respect for the profesion in general and a couple friends that are LEO's but the ones that act like idiots, (of which I've dealt with a couple) send chills down my spine. I find them reckless unprofesional and dangerous.

For note most officers I've dealt with have been profesional and some even friendly.

When I go to work I must act like a profesional I expect the same of them. If I'm speeding and I am caught fine so be it if I get a ticket I guess I deserve it but I expect to be treated in a profesional manner.

ranger7
March 1, 2003, 12:42 PM
I would guess that in Texas where notifying the LEO that you're carrying is required, the LEOs are a lot more familiar with CCW and tend to not get as excited.

In states where notification is not required, the LEOs have less experience and training about this. It's a coin flip whether you get an excitable one.

Alan

joebogey
March 1, 2003, 02:00 PM
In the 2 or 3 times I've been stopped here in Ky, I have handed my ccw out along with my drivers' licence. These were all routine road blocks where I had time to remove my license before approaching the officer.
Only thing I have ever heard from any of them is "Hey, Watcha carryin?"
None of them have been overly concerned that I'm armed. But I know that there's one out there somewhere just a waitin. LOL

But hey, we're talkin bout Ky here. We're all rednecks, and we're all armed. :rolleyes:
Oh yeah, we also like to shoot up into the air a lot.
Gotta keep our image up.

benewton
March 1, 2003, 04:06 PM
My 2 two cents worth from a civilian who's always found with both permit and loaded weapon...

I've been stopped twice while carrying, and, FWIW, both were warrented, given that you think that the posted speed limits made any sense.

I open the window, keep both hands on the wheel, and wait for the demand for the liscense and registration, since I'll have to dig to get the wallet out...

One stop, I handed him the liscense, registration and permit. I was asked if I was carrying, and, then, what and where. Said wait there, and returned with a warning, not a ticket, and the comment "I've never had problems with you people.".

Second stop, I'd moved the permit from the "I can find it" portion of the wallet to elsewhere, and couldn't find it without fumbling, which didn't seem such a good idea as he waited. Took the ticket, and that was that. But I gotta admit that he was a short, out of shape type, and the weapon was covered by a couple of layes of clothing on my right side, so there wasn't any way this side of hell he'd have seen it.

All things considered, my policy, subject to change at any time, is to hand over the permit with the rest of the paper: I can understand his side of the problem.

That said, though, I live in the sticks, at least as far as the northeast is defined, and the cops are local residents, and so are reasonable.

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