A pleasant surprise, and some incipient new shooters


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BrokenPaw
November 16, 2004, 09:48 AM
My lady-wife BrokenMa and I have become pretty close friends with a couple of young ladies who run a small shop near our home. They were having a few issues with the way some of their friends were treating their shop, and wanted to know if we had any ideas or advice for how to resolve the issue without offending people. So we had them over for dinner yesterday evening, and we talked for several hours.

During the conversation, one of them mentioned that a creepy sort of fellow has been hanging around the shop on occasion, and that the woman in the shop next door said that he hangs around there even when their shop isn't open, staring at it and occasionally trying the door.

Also, each of them has been in the shop alone on occasion when groups of men have come in. Nothing untoward has happened, but they've both realized that they were vulnerable in those situations, and if the groups of men had happened to be bad news, there's not a lot they could have done in self defense.

Their shop is off the main road, and frequently one of them is there alone. Especially now that it's getting dark earlier (while they're still open) they've realized that they are at risk both from simple robbery and (since they're both quite attractive) from worse things, as well.

So (watch BrokenPaw wear his 'subtle' hat) not wanting to come on too strong, I told them that at the absolute very least each of them needed to carry a can of pepper spray on their person when they were in the shop. I pointed out that merely having one behind the counter was great, until they happened to not be behind the counter some time when trouble started.

They both responded immediately and positively to the idea of pepper spray, so I decided to push just a little to see how they'd react[0]. I mentioned that I would even tend toward something more potent. One of them piped up and mentioned that the woman in the shop next door keeps a shotgun behind the counter. And both of them seemed fine with it.

Well. That changes things. I told them that learning to shoot was probably a very good thing for them, and that I would be willing to teach them. They asked whether I could teach them to "shoot to injure, not kill." I told them that the point of self-defense shooting was not specifically to kill, but to stop the threat, and that the only effective way to do that was to shoot for the center of mass. I explained how stress affects accuracy, and that COM was the only target of sufficient size to aim for in a stress-fire situation. They both accepted that, and they've expressed interest in going to the range to learn with BrokenMa and me sometime soon.

I've got a .22 WMR bolt-gun to start them out on, and a friend of mine has a Walther P22 that I'm fairly sure he'd lend to the cause, so we can start them out small and let them grow into it.

Once they're comfortable shooting, I'm going to see about talking them into getting their Virginia CCH, because they're legal to carry in their shop, but not on the way to their cars or in their cars on the way to and from.

Further bulletins as events warrant.

-BP

[0] The shop sells herbs and candles and in general caters to the Pagan community. BrokenMa and I are two of (it seems) very few pro-gun Pagans out there, because many Pagans take pacifism to an absurd extreme. I'm not one to initiate violence, but if someone else starts it against me and mine, by golly I'm going to finish it.

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El Tejon
November 16, 2004, 09:51 AM
Good job, Paws! :)

migoi
November 16, 2004, 10:19 AM
on the sheet. A gun owner of Druidish persuasion here. Druids in general tend to not have much problem with the idea of self defense but a whole lot of them want to spend an inordinate amount of time learning sword play rather than a method which could actually be used to defend themselves.

I don't quite understand that....

migoi

White Horseradish
November 16, 2004, 10:48 AM
on the sheet. A gun owner of Druidish persuasion here. Druids in general tend to not have much problem with the idea of self defense but a whole lot of them want to spend an inordinate amount of time learning sword play rather than a method which could actually be used to defend themselves.

I don't quite understand that....

migoi

That's funny... You don't look Druish. :neener:


Sorry, I have nothing meaningful to contribute, but I just couldn't help myself...

joegerardi
November 16, 2004, 10:57 AM
on the sheet. A gun owner of Druidish persuasion here. Druids in general tend to not have much problem with the idea of self defense but a whole lot of them want to spend an inordinate amount of time learning sword play rather than a method which could actually be used to defend themselves.

I don't quite understand that....

migoi

So, would the lady in your life be a Druish Princess? :)

..Joe

PS: My Scots ancestry (on my mother's side) can trace itself back right to the area of Northern England where the largest groups of Druids lived. It is a fascinating history.

BrokenPaw
November 16, 2004, 11:48 AM
A gun owner of Druidish persuasion here. Namaste, migoi. I sort of backed into a Druid path myself, without actually paying much attention to labels. One day I was doing some research, and >boom<, I found out I was more or less a druid.

I've studied various martial arts over time, but less for self-defense specifically, and more for the physical fitness aspect of it. For self-defense, I practice Click Click Bang.[0]

-BP

[0] He said, thus cleverly finishing the post on a gun-related topic. :D

migoi
November 17, 2004, 12:25 AM
I'm thinking we have about the same sight picture on this. There's nothing wrong with learning martial arts or swordsmanship, where I lose track of how they are thinking is when those forms of defense are deemed acceptable but choosing the more effective means provided by firearms is looked upon in a distainful manner.

The concept of not starting anything but being very protective of family is a very druidish mindset. Protection for and service to one's king/tribe was inherent to being a Druid. Of course, it is a bit more difficult today to define one's tribe or fill the role of druid within that tribe since most don't even know what a druid is.

migoi

SMLE
November 17, 2004, 04:11 AM
Most of the Pagans I know are of the "old school" type, as opposed to the "new age" type of "hippies with pentagrams". Most are also of the Norse persuasion and are better armed than some military forces.

BrokenPaw;
Ask your young friends if they have a copy of the Havamal. There are some very good pro self defence sayings in it. It sounds like these two ladies don't need convincing, but you may find it useful for others.

BrokenPaw
November 17, 2004, 09:50 AM
Most of the Pagans I know are of the "old school" type, as opposed to the "new age" type of "hippies with pentagrams". Yeah, as it turns out, most of the ones that have gravitated toward BrokenMa and me are of an old-school bent as well, even if they're relatively new to the path. It could be that the nature of the Grove we live in (and, more specifically, the things that live in the woods around it) tend to cause the "lipstick pagans" to self-select out. Betcha there weren't too many Samhain circles in Northern Virginia that had a Man In Black with an M4gery. :D
Ask your young friends if they have a copy of the Havamal. There are some very good pro self defence sayings in it. It sounds like these two ladies don't need convincing, but you may find it useful for others. I'll definitely check into that; it sounds as if it'd be a useful resource when talking to others. As you say, the women at the shop don't seem to need any convincing -- they just needed a teacher from which to learn that which they already wished to know.

Moderators, this thread started out as primarily gun-related, but it seems to have gone afield; if you think it would fit better in the Round Table, please move it...

-BP

Sean85746
November 17, 2004, 10:03 AM
Namaste, migoi. I sort of backed into a Druid path myself, without actually paying much attention to labels. One day I was doing some research, and >boom<, I found out I was more or less a druid.

I've studied various martial arts over time, but less for self-defense specifically, and more for the physical fitness aspect of it. For self-defense, I practice Click Click Bang.[0]

-BP

[0] He said, thus cleverly finishing the post on a gun-related topic. :D


Funny...I always studied CHING CHING POW and GUN FU

Jeff K
November 17, 2004, 11:41 PM
BrokenMa and I are two of (it seems) very few pro-gun Pagans out there, because many Pagans take pacifism to an absurd extreme. I'm not one to initiate violence, but if someone else starts it against me and mine, by golly I'm going to finish it.

I have to admit that as a newbie gun owner and Pagan I wrestled with the the balancing of my mildly pacifist beliefs, and my desire to purchase a couple guns for hunting and protection.

Many of the Pagans I know are also somewhat conflicted with this, but I think most recognise that there are occasions where its better to be safe than sorry.

The Grand Inquisitor
November 18, 2004, 12:20 AM
BrokenPaw-ji - I noticed you greated with Namaste.

Are you Sotuh Asian? I'm just wondering because I have studied Hindi in the past and I am now working mainly with Sanskrit and Kannada.

Aap se milkar bari kushi hui.

mfree
November 18, 2004, 10:02 AM
Being somewhat of an eclectic pagan, I've dealt with the pacifist beliefs in this manner... if I allow someone to steal my life before my tasks here are done, someone up there's probably not going to like it very much. I have too much work left to do.

BrokenPaw
November 18, 2004, 10:21 AM
BrokenPaw-ji - I noticed you greated with Namaste.

Are you Sotuh Asian? I'm just wondering because I have studied Hindi in the past and I am now working mainly with Sanskrit and Kannada.Actually, no, I'm not. I'm pretty much Generic Western European Mutt: Lot of Scottish, a little Irish, a bit of German thrown in for good measure. The rest is pedigreed Mystery Meat.

I was born and raised in Virginia. I'm about as not-south-asian as it's possible to be. :)

-BP

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