Iraqi People vs the UN/France/Germany=War Crimes


November 17, 2004, 04:55 PM
It looks like the more we know about the sale of oil by Iraq to gather $ for humanitarian aid:
1. The more we see how corrupt and manipulative the UN was in administering that program
2. How much the strongest opponents of our intervention in Iraq were benefiting from that corruption. France, possibly Germany and the FSU.

One could make the point that due to this conspiracy to knowingly profit by working with SH, people in the UN, France and Germany profited personally to the harm of the Iraq people on many levels. The groups also stalled the liberation of the IP from this man by the Coalition of the Willing and frustrate attempts to correct the situation every day.

SH bought weapons with this aid money that he then used to commit human rights violations against the people of Iraq, including mass murder. He also used the ill-gotten gains of the oil-for-aid dollars to subsidize Palestinian terror against Israel. Again, the result was dead and injured people thanks to the murder bonuses SH paid to the families of the body bombers.

Can the Iraqi people and Israel bring the UN, France and Germany etc up on war crimes charges in the World Court? Are they entitled to reparations from these outfits? Could this be used to replace the rabble that run the UN?
If it stretched out his life, would Sadam testify about the law breaking carrried out by the UN, the French etc???? Seems like he is being held by a groups that is empowered to make that deal to him in exchange for his testimony...

Your thoughts..

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November 17, 2004, 05:04 PM
I always had a feeling something wierd was going on by their absolute refusal to do anything.

Especially when the French made GPS jammers were found in Iraq during the war. Kind of thier own Iran Contra type situation.

November 17, 2004, 05:59 PM
I wouldn't object to seeing the UN taken down a peg or three but ... WAR crimes?

WHAT war? The events you are describing did not take place during a time of war, and they did not involve nations (or organizations) involved in the "conflict" (no war was declared) that followed. How ya gonna stretch that to "war crimes"?

November 17, 2004, 11:29 PM
How about crimes against humanity then?

Don't care too much about the charges, just that something move forward to intangle the same groups that were so instrumental in the helping SH murder his own subjects and, via proxy, folks in Israel. And in violation of UN mandates to boot.

I think the very Euros that have been so opposed to US activities in A-stan and Iraq are the same people that support the World Court. It would be the sweetest irony if the tool they have tried to threaten the US with, were used to club them!

I believe the Iraqi people have a legit legal claim against the French and the UN and possibly others.


November 17, 2004, 11:36 PM
you really have not kept up on the Oil for Food program and UN.

nothing like charges will ever come up. the US investigation is totally stalled however they recently discovered it was not 10 billion but some 23 billion in money that made it through the abuses. Kofi Annans son is implicated in this mess.

I doubt anything will come of it that hasnt already. trust me I would love to see the UN get the boot.

November 17, 2004, 11:45 PM
If I had not kept up with the topic of late why would I have started the thread? :D The points you state have been in the media off and on for several weeks. A significant part of it before the election, lost in the chatter though it was.


November 18, 2004, 12:41 AM
you skimped on the details some and narrowed on France and Germany. others are just as guilty ie Russia. but russia is given a big pass by this administration.

I would love to see the UN get the boot. wont happen.

November 18, 2004, 01:12 AM
From my original post:
2. How much the strongest opponents of our intervention in Iraq were benefiting from that corruption. France, possibly Germany and the FSU.

FSU=Former Soviet Union

Sadly I have to say you are likely, probably, dog-gone most probably 100% correct.
Nothing will happen. :(
But one can always dream of a swiftly applied boot to Kofi's and Son of Kofi's collective posterior :D

I'm still not sure the story has matured to the point I'm willing to say it's a dead issue.

Last week you might be aware Kofi took some political pot shots at the new Iraqi leader. I would dearly love to see that dude make a public statement that the new Iraqi government is looking into (or at least exploring) legal options they might take against members of the UN that profited from illegal activities in the Oil for Aid fiasco.

I would look for Kofi to resign and disappear in short order.


November 18, 2004, 01:17 AM
Well lets see where logical reasoning leads on all this crookedness.
SH uses ill gotten gains from the swindle, bribes UN, EU,, terrorizes his
own people, supports terrorists in Israel,and supports AQueada terrorists.
Great possibilities show up now. The last mentioned kill 3000 here and
our men in service have had deaths, So families involved here should
get wit the average Iraqi on the street and sue the ass off of UN and
EU elements that are involved....IE; THE FACT THAT THEY TOOK BRIBES,
IS A MAJOR CAUSE OF 911..........Ed

November 18, 2004, 02:33 AM
outside of Answar Al Islam and few other things documents and facts the wink between Al Qaeda and Iraq is kinda weak specially on 9/11 grounds.

but be interesting to know what turns up as they manage to sift through the documents found.

November 18, 2004, 02:45 AM
I know SH didn't directly plan 911, but he supported
ALQeada, gave their members training and asylum, set up
groups to funnel money to them. His goons did a lot
of hidden stuff for all the terrorists.Under common law that is
aiding before the fact.He was bent on revenging his expulsion
from Kuwait, and he knew that alll help given to the nuts would
generate harm to us if they got strong enough.Ed

November 18, 2004, 02:45 AM
the oil for food program scandal is at least 8 years old
right now its coming out to damage the un
i think saddam husseim is down the list of terrorist supporters
1 saudi arabia
2 iran
3 syria
4 iraq or libya

on the link between saddam hussein and al qaeda
not a chance SH was a secular bathist (means he didnt want a shia law governed country) al qaeda didnt like saddam and vice versa
if your looking for links to al qaeda look to our allies saudi arabia and pakistan

and to your last remark saddam was pretty pissed at us for giving him the go ahead to invade kuwait and then claiming we didnt and attacking him very shrewd of bush the first lol

and one more thing i forgot during the run up to war we found an al qaeda training camp... in the no fly zone north of bagdad on the iranian border
there number one mission was the overthrow of saddam hussein
here is a good link most of the reporting is on the 9/11 commisions findings
here is just one paragraph
This reference was to Abu Musab al-Zarqawi, a terrorist operating in Iraq. Earlier this year, the Kurds intercepted a letter (not an e-mail) Zarqawi supposedly sent to Al Qaeda asking for help fomenting civil war in Iraq. According to US officials, Al Qaeda turned down the request. This exchange, if it indicates anything, is evidence of a division between the two terrorist camps. And Zarqawi has been linked in the past not to Saddam's regime but to Ansar al-Islam, a terrorist outfit that declared its opposition to Saddam.

November 18, 2004, 03:42 AM
Got hundreds of sites with proof that SH supported Bin Laden
indirectly, and Bin ladens underlings directly.As for money
help I know Saudis gave him more.But some money and most all
the physical help, asylum, training, SH underlings did.

Check out this reference and all the URLS. Ed.

November 18, 2004, 04:35 AM
your totally right
although i think the 9/11 commission report would be a good start for you to look. this is put out by our goverment. i trust the goverment more than i trust newsmax or the tennesean which is where the bulk of your news seems to be coming from (i went to that link you posted lol )
here try this link download the full report then do a search for hussein
let me know what you come up with

of course if your too lazy or scared your belief system will crash by actually doing that it is summarised with this tid bit from the report

But the report of the commission's staff, based on its access to all relevant classified information, said that there had been contacts between Iraq and al Qaeda but no cooperation. In yesterday's hearing of the panel, formally known as the National Commission on Terrorist Attacks Upon the United States, a senior FBI official and a senior CIA analyst concurred with the finding.

November 18, 2004, 12:35 PM
Splitting hairs on words. What is cooperation.. Overt public stuff?
What is contacts. Saying hello and passing funds or having third parties
give your money, material and training, to them.All we are saying is
IraQ supported them behind the scenes-----Look at following--

October 04, 2004
( - Iraqi intelligence documents, confiscated by U.S. forces and obtained by, show numerous efforts by Saddam Hussein's regime to work with some of the world's most notorious terror organizations, including al Qaeda, to target Americans. They demonstrate that Saddam's government possessed mustard gas and anthrax, both considered weapons of mass destruction, in the summer of 2000, during the period in which United Nations weapons inspectors were not present in Iraq. And the papers show that Iraq trained dozens of terrorists inside its borders.

One of the Iraqi memos contains an order from Saddam for his intelligence service to support terrorist attacks against Americans in Somalia. The memo was written nine months before U.S. Army Rangers were ambushed in Mogadishu by forces loyal to a warlord with alleged ties to al Qaeda.

Other memos provide a list of terrorist groups with whom Iraq had relationships and considered available for terror operations against the United States.

Among the organizations mentioned are those affiliated with Abu Musab al-Zarqawi and Ayman al-Zawahiri, two of the world's most wanted terrorists. Zarqawi is believed responsible for the kidnapping and beheading of several American civilians in Iraq and claimed responsibility for a series of deadly bombings in Iraq Sept. 30. Al-Zawahiri is the top lieutenant of al Qaeda chief Osama bin Laden, allegedly helped plan the Sept. 11, 2001 terrorist strikes on the U.S., and is believed to be the voice on an audio tape broadcast by Al-Jazeera television Oct. 1, calling for attacks on U.S. and British interests everywhere.

The source of the documents

A senior government official who is not a political appointee provided with copies of the 42 pages of Iraqi Intelligence Service documents. The originals, some of which were hand-written and others typed, are in Arabic. had the papers translated into English by two individuals separately and independent of each other.

There are no hand-writing samples to which the documents can be compared for forensic analysis and authentication. However, three other experts - a former weapons inspector with the United Nations Special Commission (UNSCOM), a retired CIA counter-terrorism official with vast experience dealing with Iraq, and a former advisor to then-presidential candidate Bill Clinton on Iraq - were asked to analyze the documents. All said they comport with the format, style and content of other Iraqi documents from that era known to be genuine.

Laurie Mylroie, who authored the book, "Study of Revenge: Saddam Hussein's Unfinished War against America," and advised Clinton on Iraq during the 1992 presidential campaign, told that the papers represent "the most complete set of documents relating Iraq to terrorism, including Islamic terrorism" against the U.S.

Mylroie has long maintained that Iraq was a state sponsor of terrorism against the United States. The documents obtained by , she said, include "correspondence back and forth between Saddam's office and Iraqi Mukhabarat (intelligence agency). They make sense. This is what one would think Saddam was doing at the time."

Bruce Tefft, a retired CIA official who specialized in counter-terrorism and had extensive experience dealing with Iraq, said that "based on available, unclassified and open source information, the details in these documents are accurate ..."

The former UNSCOM inspector zeroed in on the signatures on the documents and "the names of some of the people who sign off on these things.

"This is fairly typical of that time era. [The Iraqis] were meticulous record keepers," added the former U.N. official, who spoke with on the condition of anonymity.

The senior government official, who furnished the documents to, said the papers answer "whether or not Iraq was a state sponsor of Islamic terrorism against the United States. It also answers whether or not Iraq had an ongoing biological warfare project continuing through the period when the UNSCOM inspections ended."

Presidential campaign focused on Iraq

The presidential campaign is currently dominated by debate over whether Saddam procured weapons of mass destruction and/or whether his government sponsored terrorism aimed at Americans before the U.S. invaded Iraq last year. Democratic nominee Sen. John Kerry has repeatedly rejected that possibility and criticized President Bush for needlessly invading Iraq.

"[Bush's] two main rationales - weapons of mass destruction and the al Qaeda/September 11 (2001) connection - have been proved false ... by the president's own weapons inspectors ... and by the 9/11 Commission," Kerry told an audience at New York University on Sept. 20.

The Senate Intelligence Committee's probe of the 9/11 intelligence failures also could not produce any definitive links between Saddam's government and 9/11. And United Nations as well as U.S. weapons inspectors in Iraq have been unable to find the biological and chemical weapons Saddam was suspected of possessing.

But the documents obtained by shed new light on the controversy.

They detail the Iraqi regime's purchase of five kilograms of mustard gas on Aug. 21, 2000 and three vials of malignant pustule, another term for anthrax, on Sept. 6, 2000. The purchase order for the mustard gas includes gas masks, filters and rubber gloves. The order for the anthrax includes sterilization and decontamination equipment. (See Saddam's Possession of Mustard Gas)

The documents show that Iraqi intelligence received the mustard gas and anthrax from "Saddam's company," which Tefft said was probably a reference to Saddam General Establishment, "a complex of factories involved with, amongst other things, precision optics, missile, and artillery fabrication."

"Sa'ad's general company" is listed on the Iraqi documents as the supplier of the sterilization and decontamination equipment that accompanied the anthrax vials. Tefft believes this is a reference to the Salah Al-Din State Establishment, also involved in missile construction. (See Saddam's Possession of Anthrax)

The Jaber Ibn Hayan General Company is listed as the supplier of the safety equipment that accompanied the mustard gas order. Tefft described the company as "a 'turn-key' project built by Romania, designed to produce protective CW (conventional warfare) and BW (biological warfare) equipment (gas masks and protective clothing)."

"Iraq had an ongoing biological warfare project continuing through the period when the UNSCOM inspections ended," the senior government official and source of the documents said. "This should cause us to redouble our efforts to find the Iraqi weapons of mass destruction programs."

'Hunt the Americans'

The first of the 42 pages of Iraqi documents is dated Jan. 18, 1993, approximately two years after American troops defeated Saddam's army in the first Persian Gulf War. The memo includes Saddam's directive that "the party should move to hunt the Americans who are on Arabian land, especially in Somalia, by using Arabian elements ..."

On Oct. 3, 1993, less than nine months after that Iraqi memo was written, American soldiers were ambushed in Mogadishu, Somalia by forces loyal to Somali warlord Mohammed Farah Aidid, an alleged associate of Osama bin Laden. Eighteen Americans were killed and 84 wounded during a 17-hour firefight that followed the ambush in which Aidid's followers used civilians as decoys. (See Saddam's Connections to al Qaeda)

An 11-page Iraqi memo, dated Jan. 25, 1993, lists Palestinian, Sudanese and Asian terrorist organizations and the relationships Iraq had with each of them. Of particular importance, Tefft said, are the relationships Iraq had already developed or was in the process of developing with groups and individuals affiliated with al Qaeda, such as Abu Musab al-Zarqawi and Ayman al-Zawahiri. The U.S. currently is offering rewards of up to $25 million for each man's capture.

The documents describe Al-Jehad wa'l Tajdeed as "a secret Palestinian organization" founded after the first Persian Gulf War that "believes in armed struggle against U.S. and western interests." The leaders of the group, according to the Iraqi memo, were stationed in Jordan in 1993, and when one of those leaders visited Iraq in November 1992, he "showed the readiness of his organization to execute operations against U.S. interests at any time." (See More Saddam Connections to al Qaeda)

Tefft believes the Tajdeed group likely included al-Zarqawi, whom Teft described as "our current terrorist nemesis" in Iraq, "a Palestinian on a Jordanian passport who was with al Qaeda and bin Laden in Afghanistan prior to this period (1993)."

Tajdeed, which means Islamic Renewal, currently "has a website that posts Zarqawi's speeches, messages, claims of assassinations and beheading videos," Tefft told "The apparent linkages are too close to be accidental" and might "be one of the first operational contacts between an al Qaeda group and Iraq," he added.

Tefft said the documents, all of which the Iraqi Intelligence Service labeled "Top secret, personal and urgent" show several links between Saddam's government and terror groups dedicated not only to targeting America but also U.S. allies like Egypt and Israel.

The same 11-page memo refers to the "re-opening of the relationship" with Al-Jehad al-Islamy, which is described as "the most violent in Egypt," responsible for the 1981 assassination of Egyptian President Anwar Sadat. The documents go on to describe a Dec. 14, 1990 meeting between Iraqi intelligence officials and a representative of Al-Jehad al-Islamy, that ended in an agreement "to move against [the] Egyptian regime by doing martyr operations on conditions that we should secure the finance, training and equipments." (See More Saddam Connections to al Qaeda)

Al-Zawahiri was one of the leaders of Jehad al-Islamy, which is also known as the Egyptian Islamic Group, and participated in the assassination of Sadat, Tefft said. "Iraq's contact with the Egyptian Islamic Group is another operational contact between Iraq and al Qaeda," he added.

One of the Asian groups listed on the Iraqi intelligence memo is J.U.I., also known as the Islamic Clerks Society. The group is currently led by Mawlana Fadhel al-Rahman, whom Tefft said is "an al Qaeda member and co-signed Osama bin Laden's 1998 fatwa (religious ruling) to kill Americans." The Iraqi memo from 1993 states that J.U.I.'s secretary general "has a good relationship with our system since 1981 and he is ready for any mission." Tefft said the memo shows "another direct Iraq link to an al Qaeda group."

Iraq had also maintained a relationship with the Afghani Islamist party since 1989, according to the memo. The "relationship was improved and became directly between the leader, Hekmatyar and Iraq," it states, referring to Gulbuddin Hekmatyar, an Afghani warlord who fought against the Soviet Union and current al Qaeda ally, according to Tefft.

Last year, American authorities in Afghanistan ranked Hekmatyar third on their most wanted list, behind only bin Laden and former Taliban leader Mullah Omar. Hekmatyar represents "another Iraqi link to an al Qaeda group," Tefft said. (See More Saddam Connections to al Qaeda)

The Iraqi intelligence documents also refer to terrorist groups previously believed to have had links with Saddam Hussein. They include the Palestine Liberation Front, a group dedicated to attacking Israel, and according to the Iraqi memo, one with "an office in Baghdad."

The Abu Nidal group, suspected by the CIA of having acted as surrogates for Iraqi terrorist attacks, is also mentioned.

"The movement believes in political violence and assassinations," the 1993 Iraqi memo states in reference to the Abu Nidal organization. "We have relationships with them since 1973. Currently, they have a representative in the country. Monthly helps are given to them -- 20 thousand dinars - in addition to other supports," the memo explains. (See Saddam's Connections to Palestinian Terror Groups)

Iraq not only built and maintained relationships with terrorist groups, the documents show it appears to have trained terrorists as well. Ninety-two individuals from various Middle Eastern countries are listed on the papers.

Many are described as having "finished the course at M14," a reference to an Iraqi intelligence agency, and to having "participated in Umm El-Ma'arek," the Iraqi response to the U.S. invasion in 1991. The author of the list notes that approximately half of the individuals "all got trained inside the 'martyr act camp' that belonged to our directorate."

The former UNSCOM weapons inspector who was asked to analyze the documents believes it's clear that the Iraqis "were training people there in assassination and suicide bombing techniques ... including non-Iraqis."

Bush administration likely unaware of documents' existence

The senior government official and source of the Iraqi intelligence memos, explained that the reason the documents have not been made public before now is that the government has "thousands and thousands of documents waiting to be translated.

"It is unlikely they even know this exists," the source added.

The government official also explained that the motivation for leaking the documents, "is strictly national security and helping with the war on terrorism by focusing this country's attention on facts and away from political posturing.

"This is too important to let it get caught up in the political process," the source told

To protect against the Iraqi intelligence documents being altered or misrepresented elsewhere on the Internet, has decided to publish only the first of the 42 pages in Arabic, along with the English translation. Portions of some of the other memos in translated form are also being published to accompany this report. Credentialed journalists and counter-terrorism experts seeking to view the 42 pages of Arabic documents or to challenge their authenticity may make arrangements to do so at headquarters in Alexandria, Va.

November 18, 2004, 04:09 PM
President George Bush has admitted he has no proof linking Saddam Hussein to the 11 September attacks – disputing a popular American belief critics say his administration helped to create.

Sept. 18, 2003 - President Bush took the unusual step of denying categorically that his administration has evidence that connects Saddam Hussein with the attacks of Sept. 11, 2001. “We’ve had no evidence that Saddam Hussein was involved with September the 11th,” Bush said. But critics say the damage is already done and that the administration deliberately kept the theory alive.

November 18, 2004, 05:25 PM
"Involved"---It is just semantics again---Walking a thin political
line with words for votor consumption---Even I said SH wasn't directly
involved in 911---But SH amd others(Saudi money doners,etc) are partly responsible, because of their support---HE gave training,asylum,
big propaganda push to terrorizm, And he was the big cheeze
so he got the second(behind Taliban) extreme benefit of scrutiny
and upside the head treatment from us.Prez just phrased it like that to get votes fron anti types. You know "politics". Just like he said he would
sign AWB if it came, but he didn't force congress to pass it and told leaders
to forget it. Just trying to counteract anti-gun politics.

November 18, 2004, 08:27 PM
Thanks for the re-run on the "What did SH do with OBL and when did he do it, or not?" tape but the thread is about the Iraqi people (and maybe Israel) legally prosecuting they claims of human rights violations against leaders in the UN and their co-conspirators outside the UN in the Oil for Aid scam.

Even if the new Iraqi adminstration cannot get SH to talk, there are always the "Deck of Cards" guys. One has to think there are some deal makers in that band of BGs. They were more than likely the traction people in the crooked dealing anyway and could give times, dates, names and hard copy in some cases.

Seems like sanctions would be the minimum damages but something invloving reparations is also likely. If things went terribly right were would the World Court lock up Kofi and Kofi Jr? Do they even have a jail? :D


November 19, 2004, 02:19 PM
Another sign of problems at the UN


UN staff to vote on no-confidence motion against Annan

AFP Photo

UN staff are expected to make an unprecedented vote of no confidence in Secretary-General Kofi Annan, union sources say, after a series of scandals tainted his term in charge of the world body.

The UN staff union, in what officials said was the first vote of its kind in the almost 60-year history of the United Nations, was set to approve a resolution withdrawing support for Annan and senior UN management.

Annan has been in the line of fire over a series of scandals including controversy about a UN aid program that investigators say allowed deposed Iraqi dictator Saddam Hussein to embezzle billions of dollars.

Staffers said the trigger for the no-confidence measure was an announcement this week that Annan had pardoned the UN's top oversight official, who was facing allegations of favouritism and sexual harassment.

The union had requested a formal probe into the official, Dileep Nair, after employees accused him of harassing staff and violating UN rules on the hiring and promotion of workers.

Top UN spokesman Fred Eckhard announced on Tuesday that Nair had been exonerated by Annan "after a thorough review" by the UN's senior official in charge of management, Catherine Bertini.

Annan underlined that he "had every confidence" in Nair, Eckhard said, but UN employees ridiculed the decision and claimed that investigators had not questioned the staff union, which first raised the complaints in April.

"This was a whitewash, pure and simple," Guy Candusso, a senior member of the staff union, told AFP.

Candusso noted that Eckhard's declaration to the press had said that "no further action was necessary in the matter."

But in a letter sent to the union, a copy of which was obtained by AFP, Annan's chief of staff Iqbal Riza said Nair had been "advised that he should exercise caution" in future to "minimize the risk of negative perception."

In a resolution set to be adopted on Friday, the union said Riza's statement "substantiates the contention of the staff that there was impropriety" and that there exists "a lack of integrity, particularly at the higher levels of the organisation."

The draft resolution, also obtained by AFP, calls on the union president to "convey this vote of no confidence to the secretary general."

Staffers who asked not to be named, afraid that speaking out could damage their future in the United Nations, said the Nair decision was an example of corruption by Annan and his senior staff.

They noted that Riza, UN undersecretary general for information Shashi Tharoor and other top officials had served directly under Annan at least since 1994, when he was head of UN peacekeeping operations.

At the time, the United Nations was widely criticized for failing to stop the Rwanda genocide that left 800,000 people dead, even though UN peacekeepers were on the ground -- a catastrophe for which Annan has publicly apologized.

Annan could not be reached for immediate comment. He is currently in Africa on a mission aimed at ending the long-running civil war in Sudan.

But he faces unprecedented calls to resign over the burgeoning scandal about "oil-for-food," a UN aid scheme that US investigators say allowed Saddam to siphon off billions of dollars.

The program has tainted UN officials like Benon Sevan, who oversaw the operation and is now accused of pocketing Saddam's money in exchange for turning a blind eye to the Iraqi dictator's abuses.

Annan stands accused of obstructing US investigators, especially since his hand-picked official Paul Volcker this week rejected calls from the US Senate to turn over documents from the program and waive UN staff immunity.

Eckhard, his spokesman, on Thursday said that Annan is expected to serve out his term, which ends in 2006.

Veteran UN staff said this was the first time that employees had risen up to make a vote of no confidence in a sitting secretary general.

"Kofi Annan is surrounded by corruption, a gang of criminals responsible for some of the worst things that happened to mankind in the 20th century," said one angry staffer, referring to the Rwanda massacres.

"It's possible that he doesn't know directly what has gone on," said the employee, who has worked for the United Nations for two decades. "But that's no excuse."

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