[orangeninja]

These are the parameters. I can afford one of the following guns but the gun must:

1.) Be concealable

2.) Be high capacity

3.) Be quick to shoot and quick to aim

4.) Be of moderate to light weight

5.) Have a 4 inch barrel or more

6.) Be capable of IDPA or the like

The guns to pick from are on the poll.

Here are my concerns...is the Hi Power as concealable and light as a 226? Is a Hi Power with the SFS feature a good shooter, trigger etc?

I carry mostly Sigs and Sig type weapons, I would like this gun for defense and the occasional match.

[Phantom Warrior]

I'd vote for a Glock because they are light, reliable, and simple to operate (I carry a Glock 23) but you don't have a poll up. Everything you've mentioned so far sound like a great gun, but I'll hold off voting until you have a poll...

[Black Snowman]

I voted PCR. I prefer C&L so my 1st choice is a CZ 75 Compact. But I also prefer 40 S&W, so I ended up with an 85 Compact, but it's a heavy cuss. The PCR is a 12 round flush fit magazine but factory full size 16 rounds mags work as well, they just protrude 20mm.

Ergonomics and value of the CZs beat out every other gun I've tried. Which has been a few. YMMV though. See if you can find them all to rent or borrow. That will narrow your selection down in a hurry.

[orangeninja]

I actually owned a PCR but sold it for a Sig 229. I love the Sig 229 but now wish I had the PCR again. 12 round mags for a 9mm just don't seem to justify the weight and size though...I have a subcompact that holds that.

I guess the PCR is out...sadly. Maybe one day when I have mo' money. I share your feelings on the quality of CZ though.

[armoredman]

12? You have bad mags? My PO1, (PCR with M3 rail) has a 14 round mag standard. They are not cheap right now, being $37 each from the factory, but worht every penney. I can't imagine not having this as my carry gun now. BTW, all CZ mags will fit, including the 15 and most likely the 18 for the CZ SP01 coming out next year..... :)

[cslinger]

I'm a SIG guy so I have to go with the P226. 17 round magazines are available for it, heck so are 20 rounders so you have your ultra high cap. It is dead reliable, very very accurate and it is just has so much more class then the others with the exception of the High Power of course.

Warning the above was posted by a certified SIG-A-HOLIC so take it for what it is worth. :D

[SouthpawShootr]

OK, I said G17. BUT my preference would really be for a G19. Factory 15 rounder in the gun and a second with a +2 baseplate for backup.

[orangeninja]

Armored man.....14 round mags for the PCR? Okay...well I guess I'll throw it back in the competition. The Sig 226 is really really nice...but BIG!

[8830]

I voted for the G17 since that is what I carry concealed. You already like Sigs and know the features so I say get the 226. However if you want something new and different then I would get the Hi-power. I carried a friend's one day in my G17 IWB holster and I didn't want to give it back.

[orangeninja]

8830.......is the Hi Power a LOT heavier than a 17? What about physical size? Is it the same size?

[Dr.Who]

G17, If you carry concealed and need to use it legally for defense, you will loose the gun. They are easy and in-expensive to replace if it happens. Plus not much needs to be done for up-keep, just a drop of oil once in a while. The sweat of your body will not spoil the finish. They are very dependable. Just a few reasons why... :rolleyes:

[Wildalaska]

HighPower...in a Galco Royal Guard...

The most concealable of the bunch (and I have a SIG 228 too btw) and the best shooter


WildfiniendofstoryAlaska

[Jeff C]

Here is a photo I just took of my PCR next to my 17 so you could compare the size difference.

The factory PCR standard magazines hold 14 rounds...unless you add a Wolff magazine spring...then they hold 15 rounds...at least mine does.

Jeff

[BHPshooter]

Sorry, but the Hi Power is not a big, heavy, uncomfortable CCW. I have worn mine around the house (can't CCW for another month), and been so comfortable as to fall asleep with it on.

As for the other criteria -- mainly quick to shoot and aim -- the HP is always a popular favorite... however, you also listed a G17. Those are like apples and oranges as far as grip angles are concerned. Go to a good gun store and feel both. One or another will jump out at you as "feeling best," and that's probably the one you should get.

Wes

[Selfdfenz]

I can verify the factory hi caps for the PCR hold 14 rnds. Don't know for 100 % sure but I believe they will fit the P 01 as well. So 14 + 1

Cool deal with the PCR is it will take the hi caps for the 75 models and it only sticks down a little bit. My CZ 75b mags hold 16 I believe.

S-

[Daniel L]

OK, I said G17. BUT my preference would really be for a G19. Factory 15 rounder in the gun and a second with a +2 baseplate for backup.

My thoughts exactly.

[Wildalaska]

and been so comfortable as to fall asleep with it on.

Same here, except I usually fall asleep at work :evil:

Know lots of cops that fall asleep with guns on too :evil: :evil:

WildsiestaAlaska

[Phantom Warrior]

Ok, I voted Glock now. It's a toss up between the 19 and the 17 in discussion (I guess the 19 isn't on your poll). It might be worth looking at both. You still get 15 rounds w/ the 19 and the grip feels a little different on the two. The full size feels a little..."skinner", maybe? I have a compact frame, same size as the 19 (mine's in .40S&W) and that thing fits me like a glove. The full size'sI've handle are nice, but don't feel quite as perfect. If one of the two doesn't suit you, try the other one. You might like it.

[natedog]

The BHP is the heaviest gun on the list (35oz IIRC) but with a good belt and holster, anything is possible. It is much thinner than any of those, and has a very comfortable grip, the most ergonomic of all pistols in my hands. By no means a large handgun- fullsize, yes, but handles extremly well.

[russlate]

I had a Glock 17L and a Highpower. The other 3 guns I've never handled. My only 9x19 at present is a nickeled 39-2 that's never burped, and somehow seems to hit everything it gets pointed at. I don't know why it's so accurate 'cause I ain't.

I don't know the Springfield imported 9mm you mentioned, but if it's been good enough to stake your life on as a carry gun, get another one. You may have to shoot someone with a lot of family or friends who want a piece of you, and by so doing, end up in greater danger than before. With the police holding your main carry gun, that is no time to retrain your reflexes.

The last time I came close to needing a gun I was 21. I'm 54 now and I'm comfortable with a CZ83 13+1 380 loaded with Hornady XTP hp's for penetration. One that I carry, one for a spare, and the third in case one breaks. All same. All tested.

[Sylvilagus Aquaticus]

Bah...the HP is most assuredly concealable. I carry mine from time to time in place of my P229.

I'd say check in on the HP or PCR/P01; you know I like SIGs, but you're heavy on them...but if you want a nice P228 there are some G-VG Israeli police trade-in's for around $300 out there now. I'm trying to convince SWMBO that she really wants a HP or a P228 for her next CCW item, but she's contesting that idea...I think she's holding out for a 1911.

All tough choices on your list. I saw a SFS-equipped HP a few months ago in Carrollton. PM me and I'll tell you where; it's possibly still there. Kind of interesting, if you ask me. I think it does add a measure of comfort in my mind to a HP. I just feel weird about Condition 1 with that dinky little safety.

IDPA/IPSC rules are all muddled in my head so I can't add anything there. I don't recall SA/DA regs on either of the groups, so I can't speculate. As far as carry in the real world, if you want to go small, then the P01/PCR. I'm waiting for Stephen Camp to get his paws on a FM Detective before I bail off and get one without knowing more about them.

Regards,
Rabbit.

[OregonPCR]

BTW

The PCR barrel is under 4".

[Sean85746]

The Hi Power with standard mags holds 13 rounds. I LOVE the Hi Power. But, the downside is a just-average trigger. Unless one removes the mag safety...never a good idea from a liability standpoint, the trigger isn't great, and the mags don't drop free.

The Glock is my pick. I carry a Glock 22 daily, with the +2 floorplate, I get 17 rnds of 40cal, and one more in the pipe. Back that up with 2 spare 15's on my belt...you have great ballistic payload coupled with fine accuracy and the same trigger pull on each shot.

The Glock 17, will have 17 in the standard mag, and 1 in the pipe for 18. That's a good load out for a light gun. Add a +2 floor plate, and you have a 20 round auto, and back that with 2 spare 17's...and you're in bizness!

The Sigs and CZ's are fine guns, I just don't like the DA/SA transition. Call me set in my ways.

[RGF]

One more G17 vote here. Yes, they are uninspiring, but for size/weight/capacity/reliability they are pretty compelling. And the short trigger reset is a big plus in my book.

[tomkatz]

Man, you have 2-229s? You're set :D .......tom

[BeLikeTrey]

don't like those?

[cgv69]

OK, I said G17. BUT my preference would really be for a G19. Factory 15 rounder in the gun and a second with a +2 baseplate for backup.

Same here. I think the G19 would be a slightly better choice for CCW but either is by far the best choice for a dependable, effective and accurate carry gun assuming you can shoot one well. I think most people can but some can't.

[orangeninja]

The sw99 and H&K both have triggers that could lovingly be called "funky" or a lot of other things if you don't like them.

"The Hi Power with standard mags holds 13 rounds. I LOVE the Hi Power. But, the downside is a just-average trigger. Unless one removes the mag safety...never a good idea from a liability standpoint, the trigger isn't great, and the mags don't drop free."


Is that true? If I got an HP I would have to get smith work done just to make it smooth? Sucky.

The appeal of a Glock 17 is the capacity...I don't carry spare mags off duty, the weight and the ease of acquiring accessories. Plus...dang near any LEO unit in America has it on their permited carry list.

If I want a .40, the 229's get the nod.

If I don't feel like carrying a gun (which is more frequent now) I can at least compell myself to carry a subcompact XD...so it gets carried a lot.

I guess the HP is more for bragging rights...but to be honest, the 17 would see more holster time.

So practical or ego? Hmmmmm.............

[teflonlop]

Hi-powers usually come with 13 round mags, but 15 round mags(from mecgar) fit flush and work fine. Removing the magazine disconnect, to get a better trigger and drop free mags, is easy. All you need is a punch and hammer.

[PCRCCW]

The Glock is bigger.........a 19 is a better CCW IMO. Great gun if you plan on running it over with your jeep and shoot it later.
The BHP is a killer choice but big and heavier than the others........still carries very well.
The PCR is an excellent choice and does fit your capacity requirements.
The 226 is a larger gun but a good one.......biggest of all of your choices for carrying.
The 229 is along the lines of the PCR .......great choice.

I voted for the PCR.....................SURPRISE!!!! :D

[cool45auto]

Hey! You got somethin' against Berettas?!?! :neener:

Either a 92FS or the G17.

[Sylvilagus Aquaticus]

Alduro, holler at me and I'll bring my BHP to the next THR-DFW shoot for you to play with.

WA is right on the money with the Galco Royal Guard/BHP combo, but a Tucker or other quality hloster is obviously as good.

Regards,
Rabbit.

[armoredman]

I think we all forgot one thing - every one of those except the HP is a DA or "safe" action design. If he wants to carry the HP, and has never carried a Single Action auto before, he'll have to practice a few thousand repetitions of wiping the safey of in draw. The HP is larger and heavier than the others, but not wider. It is a slim design, definately compared to the Grock. I still say the PCR/PO1 is definately the choice....but I be kinda biased. Yes, the PO1/PCR take the exact same magazine. ;)

[bama1911]

I have always been a fan of the sig p-series. Cannot go wrong with the P226 or P228. Also have a xd-9, good shooter. All the weapons on your poll have good reps. Guess it more a personal choice. Richard

[Marshall]

The BHP's are as comfortable to appendix carry IWB as any gun I own. I have a $12.99 KNJ IWB nylon padded holster that fits the HP and myself like a glove. The thumb break is a rinky dinky thin velcro piece, I just took some sissors and cut them off, much better with those flimsy straps out of the way. They make a good little pocket holster too.

KNJ Holsters (http://www.knjmfg.com/id2.html)

[pauli]

i'm quite confused as to why some options are full size, and some are compacts. pcr but no 75? xd sub but no xd service? g17 but no g19?

[orangeninja]

Okay guys...I came to a decision and I would like to thank everyone for their input. I went out and handled the Hi Power and G17. I am intimately familiar with the PCR and 228 and have carried a 226 for about a year as an Officer so I really needed to see the Block and Hi Power in person.

My impressions: Hi Power vs. Glock 17

Hi Power is slimmer than Glock +1
Hi Power was MUCH slicker and TIGHTER than Glock +2
Hi Power had a great trigger +1
Tons of holsters and mags available for it +1

Grand score = 5

Glock carries 20 rounds in one mag +1
Glock was lighter +1
Glock has no safety to disengage in the heat of the moment +1
Glock may be carried professionally in almost any Law Enforcement job and since that is my career of choice +1
Glock has tons of holsters and mags available for it +1
The Glock simply fit my hand better (my hands engulf the Hi Power...genetics) +2
The Glock came readily with 2 17 round Hi cap mags from the factory+1
Even though money was not much of a factor, the Glock was $489.00 new and the Hi Power was between 500-600 depending upon finish. +.05

So the Glock scores = 8.5

The PCR is small thin, light and can hold 15 rounds, if it were a choic between a Glock 19 and a PCR, the PCR would have won bar none, BUT, I kind of wanted a full size, light weight, duty type weapon to be carried with no extra mags, and 20 rounds is hard to top. I WILL BE GETTING A PCR IN THE UPCOMING YEAR. My resolution to you all.

The CZ75B is too heavy. I'm weight sensitive, if you had to carry all the crap I do every day that I do, you may be too.

The Sig 228 is really unnecassary due to a 9mm conversion barrel for my 229s. Thank you Firedragon.

The Sig 226 was REALLY close and I will be getting one in the upcoming year possibly....but the weight vs. capacity was kind of in favor again of the Glock.

The XD9 Subcompact, I love it, I shoot and carry it every day and never had a hiccup. When I begin to carry it professionaly as a backup, I will get a second.

[Bartholomew Roberts]

I have both a Glock 26 and several Hi-Powers.

The Glock has been more reliable and durable than the Hi-Powers. Its initial trigger isn't great but the reset is great. The G26 has less muzzle flip and delivers acceptable accuracy. However, despite being smaller in every dimension, the G26 is less concealable due to the width and blocky slide.

The Hi-Power has a better initial trigger; but the reset is near impossible to feel and long besides. It weighs more and needs a good belt for long-term wear. With a quality holster (Milt Sparks VM2), it is much more concealable and usable than the G26 with of the following holsters: Galco Jak-Slide, Galco Deep Cover, Galco Pocket Holster, Direct Action Deep Concealment, G-Code Paddle. Sight radius favors the Hi-Power. Grip is very ergonomic and fits well; but Hi-Power still has more muzzle flip.

I think you would do well with any of the selections you listed in your recent post. Quick thoughts on your comparisons though:

G17 vs. BHP - The G17 has a longer grip. The grip is one of the more problematic items to conceal. Combine that with a squarish slide lock-up and the Glock will never conceal as easily as the BHP. If you did go Glock, go with the G19 and use the super hi-cap mags as backups. (BHP has 21rd mag by the way).

Glock has no safety - That works both ways. Check to see the number of officers saved when crooks disarmed them but couldn't figure out safety.

Having said all that, I'd probably choose the Glock, especially if CCW isn't an issue.

[orangeninja]

Bartholomew:

Actually the primary use for this gun will be as a CCW. But there are so many people carrying these that there has to be a host of options available for this. I won't carry it IWB though. Probably a paddle holster with FBI kant.

[Northslope Nimrod]

Love the BHP and CZ. BHP is quite thin and easily carried with a good holster and belt. I also own a CZ RAMI (sub compact) but with Jeans and a good belt....by BHP is actually more comfortable. BHP is a shooter and feels great! Very reliable.

[Ken Rainey]

I voted for the Glock 17 but it seems that a Glock 19 would fit your criteria as well....but hey, the 17 was the "original and the best". The simplicity of use, the ease of maintenance, and the ability to be your own armorer is powerful strong points of the Glock and makes it "look" so much better than other pistols. Having said all that, it must fit your hand to be truly a good handgun for YOU. Now, if it's for concealed carry, then you really should consider the G26 or G19 for more ease of carry. The Glock 26 is a truly amazing little pistol.

As always, YMMV.

Ken

[orangeninja]

Okay guys...I've heard Glock 19 so many times I check one out. It is about the same size as a Springfield XD 4 inch and seemed to be okay. Long story short...the 19 didn't fit my hand as well. If I went that small the XD would be my choice.