Question about DDs


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Third_Rail
November 19, 2004, 10:57 PM
Can new-production DDs be registered to civilians, or did 1986 FOPA remove that as well?

The reason I ask is because I saw the 25mm Barrett rifle thread, and I just have to know if there's even a chance I can ever own one.

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Hkmp5sd
November 19, 2004, 11:20 PM
It applies to machineguns only. You can still make DDs on a Form 1 or buy one already manufactured on a Form 4.

Third_Rail
November 19, 2004, 11:23 PM
I think I hurt my face smiling.

:D :D

So, is there a legal limit on bore diameter, as long as there isn't an explosive filler?


It would be legal for me to (with ATF approval) manufacture my own 2" rifled cannon, wouldn't it?

RRTX
November 19, 2004, 11:57 PM
I believe anything over .50 cal is considered a DD, with a few exceptions (shotguns and muzzleloaders are the ones I know of.) There may be some others though

Chipperman
November 20, 2004, 10:22 AM
"I just have to know if there's even a chance I can ever own one."

Not as long as you live in MA. :cuss:
No new DD's, Suppressors, AOW's, or Short Barrel Shotguns.
MG's and SBR's ok with machine gun license.

armoredman
November 20, 2004, 10:28 AM
Only if Barret decides to sell to civilians, and thier track record is excellent. Now, ammo might be another story....explosive and AP might make the Feds jittery, so JHP 25mm might be a reality....... :p

boofus
November 20, 2004, 01:27 PM
The ammo would count as DDs too if they explode.

Third_Rail
November 20, 2004, 01:33 PM
Moving to VT, then 4 years later Alaska, so the DD thing about MA doesn't matter to me that much.

As for the ammo, 25mm blue practice projectiles (non-explosive) isn't that hard to get, then I can reload brass (brass?) from Barrett.

EDIT: Wait, are you saying I could pay $200 each per projectile for explosive ammunition and it'd be legal?

What's to stop a person from buying a 30mm semi-auto cannon and explosive projectiles? It sounds like the law isn't that bad in this case, except for the $200 part...

Hkmp5sd
November 20, 2004, 02:35 PM
Yep, you can have the explosive shells, just gotta pay the $200 each as each one is considered a DD all by itself. You can even get the 40mm rounds for the M-79 and M-203 if you want to pay the $$$.

One thing to keep in mind is the average local NFA dealer (aka "Class III dealer" or "Title II" dealer) cannot sell DDs. They require a special FFL (09) w/ SOT for dealing and FFL (10) for manufacturing. As these are an extra $1,000/year, most NFA dealers don't bother with DDs.

Third_Rail
November 20, 2004, 04:13 PM
Hmm... I see how that could be a problem. But again, money pending, there is a way to do all of this. Neat.

artherd
November 21, 2004, 04:34 AM
This is f-ing cool, didn't know that new DDs could be form-4'd.

Yep, you can have the explosive shells, just gotta pay the $200 each as each one is considered a DD all by itself. You can even get the 40mm rounds for the M-79 and M-203 if you want to pay the $$$.

Hrm, what about linked ammunition from the factory? ;)

Third_Rail
November 28, 2004, 03:59 PM
I just thought of a really important question - for non explosive over .5" cartridges, does each loaded cartridge count as a DD or would I be able to go buy a .950 JDJ for my cartridge board without the $200 extra?

PMDW
November 28, 2004, 05:04 PM
Non explosive + > .50in = not DD

If it's over .50, but won't explode, it's not a DD.

wdlsguy
November 28, 2004, 06:11 PM
Non explosive + > .50in = not DD

If it's over .50, but won't explode, it's not a DD.


Good thing, too, because even a 28 gauge is .550 inches.

HKrazy
November 28, 2004, 08:15 PM
Ever wonder why people who have tons of money for NFA toys don't have exploding rounds ??

Here are a few of the problems:

No one will sell you exploding rounds. You would have to make them yourself and a $200 tax would apply to each round bought or manufactured.

If you plan on shooting off more than a few rounds it would cheaper to become a FFL/SOT licensed manufacturer. However, if you are just doing it for personal use, that is tax evasion.

Either way, there are some strict regulations about storing exploding rounds. Plan on building a bunker in a non-residential neighborhood.

You will have to find a large piece of private land to set them of on as no range will let you for many reasons. The biggest problem is what to do about unexploded rounds.

The legal requirements, liability and extreme danger of exploding rounds make them a poor hobby.

ctdonath
November 28, 2004, 09:53 PM
Heard some instance where a bunch of guys bought something like 10,000 rounds of explosive ammo, and had the manufacurer's rep deliver and oversee their use in one long loud session. That allowed them to avoid the $200/per round tax as it was all still technically under the manufacturer's control.

RRTX
November 28, 2004, 10:33 PM
"As defined in 26 USC subsection 5845(f) (2) the term destructive device includes any type of weapon by whatever name known which will, or which may readily be converted to, expel a projectile by the action of an explosive or other propellent, the barrel or barrels of which have a bore of more than one-half inch in diameter, except a shotgun or shotgun shell which the Secretary or his delegate finds is generally recognized as particularly suitable for sporting purposes; and (3) any combination of parts either designed or intended for use in converting any device into a destructive device as defined in subparagraphs (1) and (2) and from which a destructive device may be readily assembled. The term 'destructive device' shall not include any device which is neither designed nor redesigned for use as a weapon; any device, although originally designed for use as a weapon, which is redesigned for use as a signaling, pyrotechnic, line throwing, safety, or similar device; surplus ordnance sold, loaned, or given by the Secretary of the Army pursuant to the provisions of section 4684(2), 4685, or 4686 of title 10 of the USC; or any other device which the Secretary of the Treasury or his delegate finds is not likely to be used as a weapon, or is an antique or is a rifle which the owner intends to use solely for sporting purposes."

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