.17 HMR v.s. .22 Magnum


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jdwolf
November 20, 2004, 06:28 AM
I've heard pro and con comments concerning the .17 HMR as being a suitable cartridge for coyote hunting. I've been an advid fan of the 22 MAG for twenty years and have killed a number of coyotes at 50 to 75 yards with head shots, and well placed lung shots. I've had a few lung shot coyotes run off after being hit, but most of them didn't get very far before they dropped. Unless the .17 HMR will dramatically increase my odds at dropping a lung shot coyote in his tracks, I'll probably stick to my trusty 22 MAG. I'd like to hear other's comments on this issue.

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stevelyn
November 20, 2004, 10:35 AM
One of the gun rags did an article comparing the two. I'll see if I can dig it up.

kudu
November 20, 2004, 11:10 AM
I have both and have shot game with both, I think the higher velocity of the .17 makes for quicker kills on the bigger varmint animals, and for pelt damage, virtualy none. I wouldn't trust either of them beyond 150yds for good anchoring kills. And the accuracy of my .17 is way beyond the .22mag.

Snowdog
November 20, 2004, 04:44 PM
I've only shot one coyote (actually, a friend said it was a feral dog)... so I'm far from an expert. However, the .17 HMR would not be a cartridge I would feel comfortable using on game larger than groundhog.

jdwolf
November 20, 2004, 06:33 PM
If the .17 HMR is too powerful for small game (squirrels, rabbits, etc.), and not powerful enough for medium size game (coyotes, bobcats), then what is it good for? Why is it being praised as the ultimate rimfire cartridge? My Marlin 781 .22 Magnum is a very good varmit rifle on medium size game and ammo is only $6.00 for 50 rounds. Ammo for the .17 HMR (where I Live) is $10.00 for 50 rounds. I can't see how the .17 HMR is that much better than the .22 Magnum and vindicate the cost of making the switch. Remember Remington's 5mm? It was hailed as a step up from the .22 Magnum. The .22 Magnum is still a very popular cartridge, where is Remington's 5mm? Two years ago the .17 HMR came on the scene like gangbusters, but I don't think the trend will last.

Onmilo
November 20, 2004, 11:31 PM
As it is loaded right now, the .17HMR has a bullet that is too fragile and moving at too high a velocity too effectively penetrate the thick fur and heavy muscle of an animal in the coyote class.
It may become effective if the manufacturers load a thicker jacket soft point or full metal jacket bullet.
Right now, it isn't making the grade.

ice
December 30, 2004, 02:24 PM
I think most would agree that the .22 mag and the HMR are not the best choice for coyote sized game.
Still many are making clean kills with the .22 mag. and the HMR, especially with the new 20 grain XTP type bullets in the HMR @ reasonable ranges with good shot placement.

unreal45
December 30, 2004, 02:30 PM
Just load your .22 mag with Gold Dots and you will have the best rimfire rig available for coyotes.

KarbineKrazy
December 30, 2004, 02:41 PM
haven't killed any game with either, but If I was shooting song dogs, I want a .22 mag.

I've seen turtles shot with the 17 though, it's pretty cool!!

Vern Humphrey
December 30, 2004, 02:47 PM
I use the .22 Hornet for coyotes. The Hornet, with my reloads, drives a 35-grain Hornady V-Max 3000 fps. The .17 HMR drives a 17-grain V-Max 2500 fps. The difference in terms of kenetic energy is about 188%.

I hunt in the Ozarks, where long range shots (over 200 yards) are rare and most shots are 100 yards or less.

I personally wouldn't choose anything less than the .22 Hornet for coyotes, even so.

unreal45
December 30, 2004, 03:05 PM
Vern,
Do you call in any bobcats down there in the Ozarks.
A buddy of mine has a cabin down there and we plan on doing a little
predator calling there this winter. I was hopping we might call in a cat.

KarbineKrazy
December 30, 2004, 03:20 PM
I don't know, I think a .22 mag is just about right. I got a buddy that shoots a lot of yotes with them and .223s.

I'm even thinking about using my Marlin Camp 9. It ought to work just great.

a 9mm doesn't have much more energy then a 22 mag, just different, more of a thump instead of a whack

Vern Humphrey
December 30, 2004, 06:51 PM
Quote:
-------------------------------------
Do you call in any bobcats down there in the Ozarks.
A buddy of mine has a cabin down there and we plan on doing a little
predator calling there this winter. I was hopping we might call in a cat.
--------------------------------------

I've not called in a bobcat -- but there are bobcats here. My wife is a nurse, and driving to work she all most ran over one crossing the County road one morning.

There are also persistent sightings of mountain lions -- so many that the Fish and Game has finally decided that they can't alll be "escaped pets."

Smoke
December 30, 2004, 08:16 PM
I firmly believe rimfire of any caliber is unsuitable for coyote sized critters.

Smoke

Vern Humphrey
December 30, 2004, 09:03 PM
Particularly not if there's a chance you might call in a mountain lion. :rolleyes:

Dave Markowitz
December 30, 2004, 09:16 PM
I firmly believe rimfire of any caliber is unsuitable for coyote sized critters.

What about .56-.56 Spencer? :neener:



(Sorry, I felt like being a smarta$$.)

Vern Humphrey
December 30, 2004, 09:20 PM
Quote:
--------------------------
What about .56-.56 Spencer?
--------------------------

The local Wal Mart has had them backordered forever, it seems. :p

KarbineKrazy
December 30, 2004, 09:28 PM
well, I always carry a .357 mag, so it's not a concern of mine. ;)

People told me .223 was to small for deer to. You really don't know though until you try.

Dr.Rob
December 30, 2004, 09:48 PM
Well since both are now factory loaded with vmax bullets they really shine as a varmint round. I'd agree both are light for 'yotes... I'd rather use a 223 for that.

Niether one is a real barn burner compared to the centerfire 22's... but everything I've read suggests the .17 is more accurate... but that could be the purpose-built rifles around the cartridge.

Some farmers out here won't let you zap prarie dogs with a centerfire... the added zing of a 22 magnum really extends your efective range.

gbran
December 30, 2004, 11:00 PM
I have both a 22WMR revolver and a pump rifle (as well as assorted 22LR's). I just bought a 17m2 Marlin bolt action rifle. It is better than a tack driver..... it's a finishing nail driver. I can kill tree squirrel and not ruin the meat. It will most probably replace my 22LR rifles, but I have no great desire for the 17HMR, which costs more to shoot, and as stated, it's a tad slim on yote sized varmints. I use a .223 for the bigger varmints and ammo is cheap, even if you don't reload.

jdwolf
February 18, 2005, 08:57 PM
I've had several clean kills out to about 100 yards on lung shot coyotes using my Marlin 781, with Winchester jacketed hollow point 22 MAGS. I've had a few run off wounded, but I've dropped more than seen run off. Rick Jamison (Guns & Ammo Magazine) once said he lung shot a coyote with a 30-06 and didn't drop him in his tracks, he followed a blood trail and found the dead dog about 200 yards away. It isn't so much power as it it bullet performance and I feel the 22 MAG is a good Coyote round out to 100 yards.

Vern Humphrey
February 23, 2005, 11:19 AM
I use the .22 Hornet on coyotes -- and while I have a .22 Mag, I consider it a little light. Bullet placement is important, but so is bullet performance. Most .22 Mag hollowpoints are designed for more fragile critters than coyotes.

Pulsar
February 23, 2005, 06:03 PM
hey guys

the 17hrm is a powerful little bullet
and would take down a coyote easily under 100yds

but i have not shot a coyote in the chest area
only head and neck shots

the 223 is overkill for a coyote under 100yds

imho :)

45crittergitter
March 1, 2005, 03:05 PM
From Mr. Carmichael recently:

"I don't consider it (.17 HMR) the right stuff for coyotes. It doesn't deliver enough punch for a quick kill, as do larger calibers like the .22/250 and the .220 Swift. If you like the idea of a sub-caliber rifle, give some thought to the .204 Ruger. It's now being loaded with 40-grain bullets, which are great for prairie dogs, woodchucks and other varmints in that class, and it also has the penetration and explosive effect needed for quick kills on coyote-size targets."

Vern Humphrey
March 1, 2005, 03:12 PM
Dang it, Jim, you're trying to tempt me to buy a .204 Ruger, aren't you? :p

Seriously, the .204 is a real comer -- what the .220 Swift wanted to be but couldn't quite do it.

For myself, I still get along fine with my .22 Hornet (in a M82 Kimber). But someday, maybe I'll go to Wyoming and need a real long range varmit rifle.

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