Rate my response to rather odd person


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braindead0
February 28, 2003, 08:41 AM
How's that for a subject. The situation: Local paper had an article on current Ohio CCW legislation (Canton Repostitory Article (http://www.cantonrep.com/archive/index.php?ID=86835&Category=13)) I posted a comment which is here (http://www.cantonrep.com/archive/index.php?Category=25&comments=yes) (note you'll need to search for Concealed carry, I'm the first comment).

Now, somebody e-mailed me a rather lengthy account of a situation. I re-formatted it (it was a single long unformatted hunk of spew) and here it is with the comments I sent back, and blotting out the expletives:

Just a few thoughts

If the Ohio Constitution is "very clear" on the right to carry then how did the present laws get passed?
I pointed out that Congress can pass a law saying up is down, and enforce it and fine you a million dollars for wrong usage. Until someone challenges it (which is happening now) it's law.

A quick story and totally verifiable through court documents and witnesses: I held off, at gun point, in my back yard a man with felony convictions for assault, stalking, rape and more. I was aware of his sociopathic make up both personally and from others.

The night before he threatened to "lick the living **** out of me. At that time, 11 pm, I called the police, he left before the arrived twenty minutes later. They asked me if he hit me and I said no. They said nothing illegal happened. I told them he was my landlords hisband and tht he has a key to the house. They told me, "if he comes pack, call un in the morning and we'll come back and pick up the pieces." He came back.

At which point, this person should have bugged out..left with whatever he could carry. His first mistake

In order to get to the unattatched garage I had to go by this person so I put a nine mm in the back of my jeans and went to the garage to get stuff for work. He became incensed that I was armed and came after me anyway carrying long handled pruning shears and saying "hell no **** no." over and over again. (All True, but this guy is disturbed)

Second problem, he was openly carrying a firearm into a situation that he knew was already on shaky ground. That alone would be enough to get you arrested for menacing I'd think.

He got to within six feet of me when I pulled my loaded gun and told him to stop, which he did.

He saw a lady watching this and ran to her saying I was going to kill him and to call the cops and to see the gun, see the gun. She handed a phone out and he called and I was arrested and charged with felonious assault which was reduced to agravated menacing.
He was found guilty, He goes on to rant about the court system, judges, jury nullificiation....blah blah.

I ended my comments to him suggesting two things. First, get some SD firearms training..second get a lawyer lined up before you need to use a firearm for personal defense.

Assuming this guys account of the event is correct (which I doubt, but what the heck...assume it is). Did I miss any other tactical/idiotic blunders that should be pointed out?

As far as I'm concerned, this guy shouldn't have guns until he gets some training. Perhaps this is the guy CCW training requirements would be good for.

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synoptic
February 28, 2003, 11:25 AM
Honestly, being on his property (even if it is rented), the only thing he seems to have done wrong is to have not pulled his piece out sooner, but instead stick it in his pants. It sounds to me that he had sufficient reason for defending himself and using a gun. Considering his story is true and he didn't sit there and taunt the insane guy, I'm also surprised he got busted for menacing. Maybe I am just missing something here, what did he do wrong? If my landlord came around pulling that stuff (especially if he had a similar record) I wouldn't "grab what I could and bug out", I'd have a 12 guage in his face with the cops on the phone.

braindead0
February 28, 2003, 11:49 AM
Just got more information from him, the rental agreement required the landlord to handle all the yard maintenence, this man is in his 70's and has a variety of joint ailments.

So, the landlords husband in the backyard was okay.

I think that he should have concealed the handgun, instead of openly displaying it (considering the landlord's husband saw it).

I'm sure there's more to this than I'm hearing from just one side.

But, In his shoes...I would have left, at least for a few days. I'd rather not have to use a firearm to defend myself from a situation that could be avoided.

I also suspect he had to use a public defender, which means...forget about it I think. Apparantly the landlords husbands prior record wasn't admitted as evidence, the fact that he had pruning shears...20 years younger and bigger and coming at him wasn't allowed either..supposedly.

synoptic
February 28, 2003, 11:58 AM
Hmmm....It's a pretty hard call to make without being in the same situation, and everyone would have handled it differently. I would suspect though, that it may be difficult for a 70 year old man to pack up and leave for a few days. I am starting to agree with you that if he had concealed the situation may not have escalated to the point it did.

Blackhawk
February 28, 2003, 12:26 PM
Give a stupid person a hammer and everything in sight appears to him to be a nail.

That's what you're dealing with.

braindead0
February 28, 2003, 01:17 PM
A bit harsher than I'd put it..but sounds fairly accurate. I suggested he find a firearms Self-Defense course (NRA or otherwise)...and get some training. If he intends to keep a gun around for defensive purposes, he's gotta get some training.

Double Maduro
February 28, 2003, 02:23 PM
the rental agreement required the landlord to handle all the yard maintenence, this man is in his 70's and has a variety of joint ailments.

So the pruning shears were explainable too.

Which man was in his 70's?

Sounds like this person overreacted to a strange situation. Sometimes hearing that someone is crazy will do that to you. The "crazy person had every right to be there and to be holding pruning shears. Besides that, when he was threatened with a gun he called the police. Showed good thinking.

Sounds like the wrong one is being labeled as crazy. Or maybe the renter is just old and confused.

spacemanspiff
February 28, 2003, 02:38 PM
The night before he threatened to "lick the living **** out of me.

a 70 yr old landlord is that much of a threat of administering someone else a rimjob???

braindead0
February 28, 2003, 02:42 PM
The guy that relates this story is in his 70's, said the landlords husband was 20years younger than him.

I think it was a bad decision on the renters part.. Yeah, the landlords husband was responsible for keeping up with the yard.. I suppose if he'd have a mower this guy woulda freaked at the whirling knife technique.

Perhaps he's a bit senile..

TearsOfRage
February 28, 2003, 03:15 PM
What the... You're supposed to MOVE OUT OF YOUR APARTMENT because someone threatened you???

I don't see that he did anything wrong, (although carrying concealed might have been safer) and he wouldn't have been charged with anything here.

braindead0
February 28, 2003, 03:31 PM
The point is .. the landlords husband apparantly is a total whacko.. Personally, I would not want to risk being forced to draw or even worse shoot him....

He knows this guy is going to be in 'his' backyard doing yardwork, he knows he's not going to be able to avoid him. Then he openly displays a gun, he should have known that this would only make things worse..

Justin
February 28, 2003, 03:33 PM
Wait a minute, let me get this straight.

The fact that the nimrod who emailed you mishandled a situation in which he carried a gun somehow proves that a state-wide concealed carry law is invalid?:confused: :scrutiny:

braindead0
February 28, 2003, 03:36 PM
Justin: You hit on something most others missed, he rants on about "What good will it do".

I cut the rest of the ranting...cause it went on and on.

But he claims (as fact) that you cannot point a gun at another person unless they have a gun as well, or you will get busted and convicted just like him. I suggested that his main problem was relying on a public defender (kinda assumed, 70yrs old..working...living in a rental...probably couldn't afford insurance or an attorney).

He also claims that you have to retreat first, AFAIK Ohio does not require you to retreat when you are in your own home...of course CCW is okay there anyway.

On the good news of the whole thing, all comments on the original article were pro-CCW ;-) There's usually a bevy of ninnies whining away on there....

Don Gwinn
February 28, 2003, 05:36 PM
That guy is full of it. You are missing some vital information on what really happened.

braindead0
February 28, 2003, 06:29 PM
Yup, he's probably a dottering old fool..but.

I find the general scenario to be interesting.

You're an old man, with poor knees (he said he wears a brace) and probably acky bracky everything.

You're landlords husband, who maintains the yard...is a whacko...

What do you do..

Granted, in his case..leaving might have been difficult to do on short notice. But I think the two big mistakes he made were.

1: Not being prepared to defend himself via a competent lawyer. He seemed prepared to shoot somebody, but forgot about the aftermath (as many people surely do).

2: Openly displaying the firearm in a 'shakey' situation like that, may have made the situation much worse. Note the reported reaction..

When I hear about scenarios like this, I like to think about how I think it should have been handled... and I appreciate the discussion about it...

DMK
February 28, 2003, 08:10 PM
Owning a house and renting it to somebody does not give somebody the right to harrass the the renters.

One should not be required to retreat from their home when in danger. Where is he supposed to go? No CCW, he'd have to leave the weapon there with the crazy threatening person who surely would follow him to his car.

If this man is indeed 70 and feable, and the attacker is younger and fit enough to do yard work, the younger man could be a threat without a weapon and the older man could have good reason to be in fear for his life.

By the information here, I'd say he had every right to defend himself with a weapon, call the police and/or get a restraining order against this person(but then he'd have to do his own yard work!).

The thoughts of consideration for the aftermath would be a small consolation when you're in surgery getting a landscaping implement removed from your chest. I think those "shaky", unpredictable situations are where you need your firearm the most.

I do agree though that openly displaying a firearm may not be the most prudent thing to do around a volatile person. I can't see how that is going to de-escalate the situation. But it would be prudent to have it ready for use at a half a second notice.

However, I suspect that there is more to this story than he's letting on.

redneck
February 28, 2003, 08:52 PM
In regards to leaving for a few days....if the situation is at my home, it will be waiting on me when I get back.
I don't think avoiding a situation calls for running away from home.

The rest of the story is questionable. You would have to be there to be able to decide whether it was right to go armed openly, and whether it was right to draw on the guy.

larry_minn
March 1, 2003, 03:05 AM
Always a good idea to call the Cops often if you have a problem person like this. Let THEM shoot this POS the city pays for their ammo and court costs.
If he had called and said he can't leave his house for fear of this POS threats the Police could have charged him with terroristic threats. I would think forcing a person to stay inside their home and not be allowed to move about freely should be also a crime. Kinda Kidnapping instead of forcing someone to move where you want preventing them from moving where they have a right to be.
Also he should have not been sleeping with his landlord. :)
"Why else would her husband have been that mad at him?" :)

braindead0
March 1, 2003, 08:53 AM
Now there's a peice of info that perhaps was left out...maybe he was sleeping with the landlord...heck.. she couldn't be happy being married to mr Whacko...

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