are all guns "NIB?"


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Ed
February 28, 2003, 09:27 AM
Just wondering, without being a smart a#s, well maby a little;) It seems like every gun that anyone sells is either NIB or it has only fired 10 shots. Are these guns that someone just bought to see if they would shoot then try to sell them? I know that is some of it, but could it be that there is a little fabrication going on? Hmmmm. When I buy a gun used and only shoot it 10 times does that count as only been shot 10 times? Really though, I haven't bought any of these so I'm not upset, just found it kind of funny and wanted to ask. And I know that some are legitimate, I'm not talking about those.

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Hkmp5sd
February 28, 2003, 09:53 AM
Most guns are test fired at the factory as was shown with Glock on 60 Minutes a few weeks ago. So most guns are not going to be considered "unfired".

On the other hand, NIB will be more like buying a new car. Depending how many people test drive the car, it can have a 100 or so miles on it, but they still sell it as new.

In my view, NIB means a 100% NRA graded firearm still in the box with all papers. Some guns sold as NIB at a dealers store are only 95% or worse due to the handling from many customers. In that case, I either ask for one from stock, not the display model or a discount for the display model.

10-Ring
February 28, 2003, 10:41 AM
Also consider that these guys are trying to sell something, that's why it is so important that you can visually inspect a prospective new gun prior to putting you money down.

TallPine
February 28, 2003, 10:48 AM
And this here gun was only shot by a little old lady on Sundays ....

hansolo
February 28, 2003, 11:23 AM
I recently aquired a NEW pistol. As it had to be ordered, I firmly asked the gunshop owner to PHONE ME WHEN IT ARRIVES...I WANT TO BE THERE WHEN THE PACKAGE IS FIRST OPENED. One reason is I had bought a pistol from another dealer that was already in-stock. After the PRK 10 day wait, I picked up this new pistol: the advertising stated "The 9mm ______ comes with one 15 and one 10 round magazine(in CA sales, an extra 10 round mag will be substituted)". I pick up the pistol, there is a magazine(10 rnd.)in the pistol...no other magazine. The salesman says: "This is the only one that was in the box. You can buy another...we carry them for $29.00" Sure enough, there are lots of _____ 10 round mags hanging on pegs.:scrutiny:

Back to the NEW new pistol. I get a call from the Gunshop owner: "Your new ___ just came; come on down!" I get there & the package had been opened. Owner says, "By law, I had to open it to make sure the serial # matches for DOJ". I say "The serial number is printed on the plastic ___ box. " Maybe the guy just forgot I wanted to be there..maybe not. I am happy with my pistol, but find it unpleasant that dealing with Gunshops one has to watch them like a hawk.:cuss: I could have driven an hour and bought from a large chain, but would rather support my local Mom & Pop business's. :banghead:

Tamara
February 28, 2003, 11:43 AM
When you log incoming guns into your bound book, you log the serial number on the gun, not the one on the box (manufacturers have been known to mismatch them before). You log that gun ASAP after it enters the door, because you don't want to have a conversation with a BATF agent that goes something like this:

F-trooper: "Why isn't this gun logged into your books?"
FFL holder: "Well, that's Mr. hansolo's gun, and he didn't want me to open the box until he got here..."

hansolo
February 28, 2003, 12:31 PM
RETORT: To Tamara


The Gunshop owner agreed to call me and wait for me when the gun arrived BEFORE I plunked down my money for said gun. He said, "There's no problem.": he knows I live 15 minutes from his shop, and I am retired due to cancer. This fellow has been in the gun business for over thirty years. If he had said, "The Troopers will be knocking down my door when your gun arrives, so I can't promise that I'll wait for you", I could have found a dealer who WOULD wait. I vote with my money.:D

Tamara
February 28, 2003, 01:43 PM
The "display model" may well be the only gun of that type in the store.

Even at the largest, busiest gun store I worked at, the only guns that we kept numerous "multiples" of in stock and boxed up in the back room were the most popular Glock, Vaquero, Taurus 85, Bushmaster and Mossberg 500 models. Everything else, the ones in the showcase or on the racks were pretty much the ones in stock.

444
February 28, 2003, 01:52 PM
"............ I firmly asked the gunshop owner to PHONE ME WHEN IT ARRIVES...I WANT TO BE THERE WHEN THE PACKAGE IS FIRST OPENED."

I have the same problem. I have ordered many guns from my local shop. Not all of them are new, some I have him transfer from an on-line auction or whatever. I am usually not waiting on his doorstep for it to arrive. He might call me to tell me it is in, and because of work or whatever I might not get by there for a week or so. After getting my "new" gun I can't wait to show it to all my friends and shooting buddies, but they don't care because before I picked it up, they all saw it, handled it, played with it, and have already picked out everything wrong with it. It has been passed around the gunshop for anyone with even a passing interest to fondle. He has even put my "new" guns in the display case; You can't buy this one, but I can order you one". They also usually know exactly what I paid for it, which they always mention was way too much.
I blew up at the dealer about it and now if I am standing in the store full of people and ask a price, he passes it to me on a slip of paper. I told him in no uncertain terms that I don't want other people knowing what I buy, and what is in my gun safe unless I choose to tell them. I also don't want my personal property passed around and played with unless I choose to let it be done. In the future, if I find out that one of my purchases has been previous "evaluated" by the gun store commandos, I am going to consider it used and if I haven't previously paid for it, he is stuck with it.

Robert inOregon
February 28, 2003, 02:39 PM
Paranoia falls under the "mentally defective" part of a form 4473 and is an instant disqualification for a firearms purchase.

http://zapatopi.net/afdb/afdbbookcover.jpg

Blackhawk
February 28, 2003, 02:50 PM
Depends on the dealer.

When I order a gun and ask to be called when it comes in, it's in the box in the back with my name on a PostIt note on the box. From the looks of them when we go through everything up at the counter, the only thing that ever happened to the guns after they arrived at the gun shop is that the SNs were verified for logging purposes.

'Course it might help that I've been trading with the one shop for over 30 years.... :D

Master Blaster
February 28, 2003, 02:52 PM
One of my local gun shops where I used to buy guns, but will never buy another gun EVER. Sells New Guns and they sell used guns.

They also have a big sign that says:

20% Fee for restocking Returns on NEW GUNS

I bought my model 41 22lr from them, it was $590 New in the Box. the sight adjustment screws were slightly buggered and the sights were raised to the max elevation.

I said this gun is used, the sales guy (new employee) says its new the fellow who bought it returned it within 2 weeks.

:fire:

The price was a used price and the gun was in perfect shape otherwise, the only other one at a local store was $720 NIB. so I bought it and have not regretted it.

I will never buy a gun sight unseen, even to save $100.

Never.....

Robby from Long Island
February 28, 2003, 09:02 PM
A few weeks ago purchased a winchester Defender 1300 with tru-glow front sight and minus pistol grip.

Told the clerk (who I know) that I wanted the gun NIB and un-opened until I arrived.

It took a week before delivery to the store at which time they called to say the SG just came in. I went down to verify that it had not been opened yet, and true to their word it hadn't been touched. I could see from the way the box was sealed that it had not yet been opened. Then in front of me they checked the numbers and recorded them.

They didn't show the slightest concern about the BATF coming in to find infractions about not opening as soon as UPS delivered it.

BTW, the Winny handles great.

Safe shooting.

Ol' Badger
February 28, 2003, 09:17 PM
On you signature there. Is that from the book "To give a boy a gun"?

Hkmp5sd
February 28, 2003, 09:28 PM
A dealer has until the end of the next business day to enter a transfered firearm into his bound book. If you can get there between the arrival and that time, the dealer can legally wait to verify the serial number of the firearm until you are present.

If you cannot make it, he either opens the box and checks the number or places himself in violation should ATF decide to do an audit before you arrive.

Standing Wolf
February 28, 2003, 09:33 PM
If it's not "N.I.B.," it's "like N.I.B.," which often means it's been shot mostly to death, left outdoors for a year or two, "fixed" by a complete idiot, and rubbed down with used motor oil.

I'm becoming more and more skeptical these days.

JohnBT
February 28, 2003, 10:15 PM
Back when I was a kid I was told that NIB meant never been sold at retail, but if it had been sold and was still unfired it was ANIB - as new in box.

John

Robert inOregon
February 28, 2003, 11:44 PM
JohnBT, you are correct and the winner of the grand prize. :D


If anyone out there can't trust their local dealer to open a package, its either time to find another dealer or their mental capacity should prohibit them from owning a gun.

scottgun
March 1, 2003, 02:02 AM
Robert, unfortunately, not everybody's local dealer is as honest as yours. Taking precautions to avoid being ripped off does not qualify someone as paranoid or mentally defective. This is some useful information and valuable experiences.

SteyrAUG
March 1, 2003, 02:13 AM
Man I wish all you guys were local to south Florida.

Most of my customers are waiting in my office for UPS to arrive. I usually have to take the gun back from them to log in the serial number.

Never fails, 4 out of 5 days a week I got someone in my office doing the pee pee dance waiting for UPS to show up.

Hal
March 1, 2003, 04:50 AM
I got someone in my office doing the pee pee dance waiting for UPS to show up. :D

(I have a 2 1/2 year old grandson, and a 2 1/2 year old neice,,,,the visual of grown men doing the pee pee dance really brought a chuckle,,,thanks,,,had bad week and I needed that)

schild
March 1, 2003, 07:07 AM
I guess I'm lucky, my local gunshop left the Shot Show with retailer of the year award. I always get treated right!

TallPine
March 1, 2003, 11:16 AM
Ol' Badger:

I'm not familiar with the book, but the sig quote is from the song "Claude Dallas" by Canadian cowboy & folksinger Ian Tyson.

It's on his "Cowboyagraphy" album.


http://www.iantyson.com/

hansolo
March 1, 2003, 11:27 AM
From the tone of your ascerbic posts, I am glad you are living in another state....do you not understand the Rules of the Forum...personal attacks will not be tolerated, etc.?



TROLL! :neener:

4v50 Gary
March 1, 2003, 11:29 AM
Like Tamara says, the serial # has got to be checked for purposes of logging it in. BTW, all guns are "proofed" at the factory and are proof marked. Unless you "build" your own, expect a non-virgin bbl.

Med 10
March 1, 2003, 11:39 AM
hansolo,

When I bought my Taurus, I told them to call me when it came in and not to open the box. Sure enough, It was all nice and sealed siiting on top of a safe behind the counter.

If you dont want them to open the gun and they do just take youre buisness elsewhwere.

The shop owner then logged all the #'s upon final payment.

I dont think the ATF is gonna come breaking the door down for something like that.

Med 10
March 1, 2003, 11:45 AM
Of course you want to come in as soon as possible.

The fire station I work at is only 5 minutes away from the shop. I would not expect them to hold a gun longer than a short while.

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