Who carries a gun to church?


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Sean85746
November 22, 2004, 01:23 AM
Okay...here we go.

Who carries a gun in church?

In the days where christians are being targeted, and increasingly hated...why not carry in church?

My pastor knows I am always armed, and even welcomes my Glock and I. We keep it quiet, but he has asked me to sit by the door to the Children's Ministry when we had "guests" of a swarthy cast we had not seen before.

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dave3006
November 22, 2004, 01:27 AM
One of the last things Jesus told his disciples was to sell their cloak and buy a sword if they had to. Bad guys hit churches too. We live in a fallen world. Be prepared.

Sean85746
November 22, 2004, 01:28 AM
Amen Dave!

rock jock
November 22, 2004, 01:29 AM
I never carry to worship. Our church is large enough that we have uniformed LEOs directing traffic and (I suppose) providing security. OTOH, I can't think of a better place to die.

Sean85746
November 22, 2004, 01:30 AM
I can't disagree with you there rock....but only if it is HIS will that I go.

Phantom Warrior
November 22, 2004, 01:31 AM
In the winter (under a coat) I carry my Glock to church all the time. I don't have a good tuckable holster to go with my khakis and button down shirts wardrobe or a ankle gun or some other option so I don't usually carry in the summer. Dang it...

Phil Ca
November 22, 2004, 01:34 AM
Carrying at church is always an option that I keep open. I don't always do so but I have the right ype of holster and wear the right clothes and can dio it very easily. I have not consulted with the pastor but he knows my past work experience and knows that I am capable to do so.

PATH
November 22, 2004, 01:40 AM
P32 in the pocket.

Amish_Bill
November 22, 2004, 02:07 AM
Heck - I had a special holster overnighted for my Grandmother's funeral. :(

Tucker Leather really came through for me on that one.

victory
November 22, 2004, 02:12 AM
You think you christians are hated and targeted? I wouldn't think twice about carrying to synogouge.

Trust me, the only thing better in the minds of these terrorists than killing americans is killing jewish ones.

Preacherman
November 22, 2004, 03:12 AM
What a silly question! :evil:

Psssniper
November 22, 2004, 03:16 AM
My friend and I are the Un-official official church security team.

We also taught a church sanctioned NRA gun safety course.
Imagine that.

fistful
November 22, 2004, 04:13 AM
"guests" of a swarthy cast I think I know what you mean, but maybe you should clarify this. Do you refer to Middle-Easterners? Black Americans?

artherd
November 22, 2004, 04:32 AM
We also taught a church sanctioned NRA gun safety course.

That's outstanding!

Sean85746
November 22, 2004, 10:12 AM
Fistful:

No, I did not mean black americans. Ours is a Calvary Chapel, and we have many folks who attend, who also hapopen to be black.

The "guests" to which I referred were of middle eastern extraction, dressed alike, and silent. They said nothing to no one, ignored the greeters, and were there on the heels of a statment made supporting Israel by our pastor.

Better to be ready.

CAS700850
November 22, 2004, 10:22 AM
Sometimes. Actually, for a while I began thinking of my Smith 649 as my "Church Gun" because I wore it to church related occassions, like services, funerals, and weddings. I must admit that I carry more for what happens around the church rather than what happens in the church. I believe that if someone enterred my chucrch with evil intentions, the hail of gunfire from the many LEO's that attend would suppress any such desires in the future.

DF357
November 22, 2004, 10:39 AM
"He who turns his swords into plowshares will plow for those who don't"

DigMe
November 22, 2004, 11:24 AM
I think you need to expand your frequency options beyond "Always" and "Never". I carry most of the time but I don't yet have a pocket gun and sometimes all my good church cover garments are dirty. I'd say I tend to carry 3 out of 4 Sundays or so.

brad cook

sensei
November 22, 2004, 11:31 AM
If I'm not inside my home I am carrying.

I certainly not alone. I know of at least 5 others carrying also.

sensei

Swamprabbit
November 22, 2004, 11:53 AM
I voted "Never" at least when there are services there. If I have to go into the building at night, when I'm the only one there, I usually do but never when others are there. My church is a small rural church so, first of all, I don't see any security issues and, secondly, the congregation is very touchy-feely with hugs and close handshakes being very common. The chances of my CCW being noticed are quite high.

Wingshooter
November 22, 2004, 12:05 PM
I never carry to worship. Our church is large enough that we have uniformed LEOs directing traffic and (I suppose) providing security.

There are several LEO's that attend my church, we also have officers that direct traffic. That said, I don't rely on them for the security of my family. I am responsible for that task, therefore I carry while attending church services.

Ala Dan
November 22, 2004, 12:35 PM
Of course, as GOD's house needs to be protected at all times!

Best Wishes,
Ala Dan, N.R.A. Life Member

TonyB
November 22, 2004, 01:12 PM
Always.....my Pastor is a shooter...not sure if he knows for sure I carry,but I think he assumes I do......God knows anyway...... :)

Gus Dddysgrl
November 22, 2004, 01:26 PM
All the time. I think. If I'm hanging out with the youth for a fun night I won't since that usually involves running around and playing games, but the gun is in the car if needed.

I carry in my pruse for church since there is no way I could hide a gun in most of my church clothes cause in my class we give hugs and I'm a girl so we give/get even more hugs.

I see no reason why not too carry at church. If you don't take it into church, what about afterwards? Say you are at church and decide to go out to lunch do you have your gun in the car? Just wondering.

Gus

Joe Demko
November 22, 2004, 01:32 PM
I seldom attend Divine Liturgy; but when I do, I always carry. I have a daughter it is my obligation to protect. A long time ago, I was also taught by the Sisters of Mercy that I have an obligation to protect my own life.

Sam Adams
November 22, 2004, 02:37 PM
"You think you christians are hated and targeted? I wouldn't think twice about carrying to synogouge.

Trust me, the only thing better in the minds of these terrorists than killing americans is killing jewish ones."

I am Jewish, and I ALWAYS carry my .45 with me to services. You are 100% correct that killing lots of Jews is Job 1 for most of the terrorist arsewholes out there, and it is well known that on any given Saturday a bunch of us will be in a synogogue - one need not be a rocket scientist to figure this one out. Thankfully, I am not the only one, as we have several others who also carry, including an ex-Israeli special forces vet and the Rabbi (though he won't carry on Saturdays or other holidays when carrying things is considered to be "work" and thus forbidden, but note that if there is a threat to life one can break this rule). I, personally, consider that merely being a Jew in this day and age involves having your life at risk, so I don't hesitate to carry - and doing so on Saturdays and holidays is especially critical since some others won't do this, leaving us under-gunned.

We do have police outside the synogogue on many occasions, but not all, but in any case I don't like to rely on others for my protection or that of my wife and kids. Anyhow, determined terrorists that want to kill several dozen or more Jews will surely have the means of dealing with 2 police officers first. I guarantee that they won't accomplish their goal for free.

MaterDei
November 22, 2004, 02:40 PM
Sometimes but I should always. Therefore I'll vote always.

I don't see why the need to protect oneself and one's loved ones would be any different at church than anywhere else.

countertop
November 22, 2004, 02:43 PM
I don't carry there as Virginia law doesn't allow concealed carry at Church. Since we have a number of high ranking Government types who attend my church, open carry there will not only piss my wife off but needlessly excite the numerous secret service agents in attendance - something I would rather not do.

sm
November 22, 2004, 02:53 PM
AR law says no CCW in Church.

I haven't attended in quite awhile, honestly have not made plans to visit again even tho my name is on a member's list...

There is that bit about "To Thine Own Self Be True". Lets just say the last funeral I attended in a Church, I was true to myself. ;)

DesertEagle613
November 22, 2004, 03:06 PM
Sam Adams—

Thankfully, I am not the only one, as we have several others who also carry, including an ex-Israeli special forces vet and the Rabbi (though he won't carry on Saturdays or other holidays when carrying things is considered to be "work" and thus forbidden, but note that if there is a threat to life one can break this rule).

Why doesn't your rabbi store a gun in the synagogue? (Assuming this can be done safely.) It avoids the issue of carrying, and R' Goren, former chief rabbi of the IDF, made a ruling that guns can be handled on Shabbat and holidays despite the issue of "muktzah" because their purpose is to save life.

By that ruling, your rabbi should be able to CCW on holidays anyway, because carrying is not a problem.

Just a thought :)

B36
November 22, 2004, 03:49 PM
Usually two, sometimes three.

Sam Adams
November 22, 2004, 04:43 PM
"Why doesn't your rabbi store a gun in the synagogue? (Assuming this can be done safely.) It avoids the issue of carrying, and R' Goren, former chief rabbi of the IDF, made a ruling that guns can be handled on Shabbat and holidays despite the issue of "muktzah" because their purpose is to save life.

By that ruling, your rabbi should be able to CCW on holidays anyway, because carrying is not a problem."

I'll mention the storage bit to him. He's got a lockable office, and I'm sure that it wouldn't be a big deal to get a small, lockable metal case to put in a drawer somewhere that kids couldn't get into even if they opened the drawer.

I'm sure that he's aware of Goren's ruling; I think that he's concerned with not printing in front of hundreds of people, as some of the flock are of the belief that guns are all possessed by demons, along with those who carry them. :barf: In any case, I will discuss it with him; it is high time to go out shooting with him again, esp. now that his 15-round Glock magazine with "LEO Only" stamped on it is now legal. :what: :D

MrAcheson
November 22, 2004, 05:01 PM
I don't have a CCL so I don't carry in general. Once I get it, I may or may not. While I don't have a problem with carry in general, I do not want my guns to become an idol to me or an extension of making an idol out of myself. At some point I have to trust in the Lord for my safety.

I think those that are carrying in church despite laws to the contrary should have a good read about the nature of earthly authority in Romans (unapplicable to non-messianic Jews of course). Suffice it to say that unless God is telling you otherwise, you are supposed to respect the law and the lawgivers as God's agents on earth. I'd need to be really sure before I broke the law in this way, otherwise I really would be making an idol out of something. But hey I had a friend who pirated bible software so some people might not share this view...

crucible
November 22, 2004, 05:56 PM
I don't carry there as Virginia law doesn't allow concealed carry at Church. Since we have a number of high ranking Government types who attend my church,

Countertop, Virginia law specifically states it is unlawful unless there is "good and sufficient reason", not outright barring (and there's more than a few government-types at my church as well-which may be your church too.) Good and sufficient reason is the protection of my family and my church family against the evil that walks this earth should they ever pay us a visit there.

You're call certainly, but you do have options-even if they are legally ambiguious. And the protection of your family isn't going to in the interest of those Secret Security types-their mission is different in that respect. (That said, I'm fairly certain we attend the same church).

Chris

countertop
November 22, 2004, 06:06 PM
Virginia law specifically states it is unlawful unless there is "good and sufficient reason", not outright barring . . . . . . Good and sufficient reason is the protection of my family and my church family against the evil that walks this earth should they ever pay us a visit there. I'll have to think about that. When I took the concealed carry class at the NRA the instructor told us, in no unertain terms, no church carry. I wonder if there is any court cases elaborating on the issue? Or maybe we can get Gen. Kilgore to issue an opinion on it.

And the protection of your family isn't going to in the interest of those Secret Security types-their mission is different in that respect. (That said, I'm fairly certain we attend the same church).
That is certainly true.

I go to church in McLean, and you??

mountaindrew
November 22, 2004, 06:08 PM
MO law prohihibits carry in church, unless you have the permission of your pastor. When I was attending a church in a rather shady neighborhood, my pastor asked me to sit near the door to keep an eye on some of the transient types that would sometimes come in. He never addressed carrying in church, but the conversations we had about guns, he was very supporting of our responsibility to protect ourselves and others. I know he would have backed me up if I carried ( whitch I did a few times) and had to use it to defend out congregation. (which I didn't)

cordex
November 22, 2004, 06:14 PM
Did so ... pardon the pun ... religiously for a long time. Haven't recently. Not for the best reason, but my choices are limited.

glock27
November 22, 2004, 06:15 PM
MI law prohibits carry in a church - unless you have permission of the church, which I can get easily - as I also make the church deposits, and after a big offering, the lead minister has asked me if I have my gun with me.

My problem is MI law, also prohibits carrying in a day care - with no wording about if it is open or closed for business. We have a day care in the church M-F.

Its always in the car, in the parking lot, which is exempt from the restrictions.

Andrew Rothman
November 22, 2004, 06:18 PM
At some point I have to trust in the Lord for my safety.

Reminds me of a joke/parable:



The Big Flood
A terrible flood had come over the land. The waters rose so high that one man was forced to climb onto the roof of his house.

A man in a rowboat appeared, and told him to get in.

"No," replied the man on the roof. "I have faith in the Lord; the Lord will save me." So the man in the rowboat went away. The man on the roof prayed for God to save him.

The waters rose higher and higher, and suddenly a speedboat appeared. "Climb in!" shouted a man in the boat. "No," replied the man on the roof. "I have faith in the Lord; the Lord will save me." So the man in the speedboat went away. The man on the roof prayed for God to save him.

The waters continued to rise. A helicopter appeared and over the loudspeaker, the pilot announced he would lower a rope to the man on the roof. "No," replied the man on the roof. "I have faith in the Lord; the Lord will save me." So the helicopter went away. The man on the roof prayed for God to save him.

Eventually the waters rose so high that the man on the roof was washed away, and the man drowned.

Upon arriving in heaven, the man marched straight over to God. "Heavenly Father," he said, "I had faith in you, I prayed to you to save me, and yet you did nothing. Why?"

God gave him a puzzled look, and replied, "I sent you two boats and a helicopter, what more did you expect?"

God, it is said, helps those who help themselves.

crucible
November 22, 2004, 06:22 PM
Yes, that's the one (hiya homie!)-and ours is a high profile church, with a high profile pastor, in a high profile area, with little security.

That said, I love my family, and their defense is up to me regardless of whever we may be. It is also my belief that since God has seen fit to equip me physically and mentally able to do so, and that God calls us to love our neighbor as ourselves as the second most important thing we do as Christians, that I am called to carry that love to my church family as well.

I pray it's never necessary, but I will not allow my loved ones to be defenseless in the face of evil.

Chris

spacemanspiff
November 22, 2004, 07:45 PM
I carry in my pruse for church since there is no way I could hide a gun in most of my church clothes cause in my class we give hugs and I'm a girl so we give/get even more hugs.
i always hear something along those lines, guess the church i went to just wasnt that loving, to me anyways. :D

though i'd like to see the reaction of someone who puts their arm around me and finds my kimber.

stewie: "its a tuna sandwich! and nothing else...."

Skunkabilly
November 22, 2004, 10:14 PM
John 15:13

aerod1
November 22, 2004, 10:38 PM
In Texas it is legal to carry your CHL weapon in Church. Therefore my priest has never seen me unarmed. He doesn't realize this because it is "concealed".
I know I am not alone, for there are at least three others in our parish who also carry in church.

Jim

DigMe
November 23, 2004, 09:52 AM
God, it is said, helps those who help themselves.


I don't think a quote that originated in greek mythology and is not found in the Bible is really fitting for this thread.

Psalms 27:14 Wait on the LORD: be of good courage, and he shall strengthen thine heart: wait, I say, on the LORD.

I"m not really arguing against your point, Matt. I do believe in utilizing the things that God has given us here on earth but "God helps those who help themselves" is not scriptural. Also, I'm not saying that you claimed it is from the Bible...just clarifying because a lot of people do quote that as if it's from the Bible.

brad cook

Sam Adams
November 23, 2004, 02:24 PM
"...but "G-d helps those who help themselves" is not scriptural."

Perhaps the exact phrase isn't found in any translation of the Bible (Jewish or Christian), but the thought is certainly there in the Jewish Bible (what Christians call "The Old Testament"). We can't just wait around for G-d to perform miracles for us, we need to do whatever is humanly possible to help ourselves - and then, if we are sufficiently deserving, G-d will grant us a miracle if we still need it. A perfect example of this is the splitting of the Red Sea. This event wasn't at all like the 1957 Charleton Heston movie. I know that this isn't a board or a thread that is oriented toward religion, but to understand what I mean you need to know the following:

According to Rabbi Yehuda, none of the tribes wanted to enter the sea first. Each one was waiting for the other. Finally, Nachshon ben Aminadav of Judah jumped into the sea. Seeing him, the entire tribe of Judah followed. Then the rest of the tribes entered the sea.

Jumping into the sea, Nachshon cried out, "Save me, 0 God, for the waters are threatening my life." (Psalms 69:2)

As a result of Nachshon's great faith, leadership was given to the tribe of Judah. Regarding this, it is written, "When Israel went out of Egypt, Jacob's family from a strange-speaking people, Judah became his holy one, Israel his domain." (Psalms 114:1, 2) When the Israelites left Egypt and stood on the shore of the Red Sea, they did not have faith that the sea would split; they were afraid to enter the sea. The leader of Judah then sanctified God's name by literally jumping into the sea, and as a result he was worthy of fathering the royal line, making Israel his domain.

http://www.jewishgates.com/file.asp?File_ID=1018

In other words, had Nachshon not jumped in to the Red Sea (Sea of Reeds?) in order to demonstrate his great faith in G-d and to try to escape the Egyptians with all of his human resources, then there would have been no miracle.

Matt Payne's joke gives us the same lesson, albeit in a more enjoyable format.

How does this relate to carrying in a house of worship? Simple: You shouldn't rely on G-d to protect you from all of the evils in the world, at least not until you have taken every step possible to protect yourself from those evils. In my mind, one of those steps in this era (speaking technologically, socially and politically) is carrying a firearm.

The Rabbi
November 23, 2004, 03:13 PM
When I am out of my house I am carrying. So when I go to shul in the week I am carrying as well. Of course concealed and I suppose no one knows better.
Carrying on Yom Tov is a big problem of muktzeh and I don't do it. Shabbos even more so. If there were an actual threat (not, "people are out to get Jews") then I would carry, even on Shabbos. When the riots hit LA a few years ago I know there were many in the Orthodox community who showed up packing. I have no problem with that.
One funny note: one of the guys in the congregation sells advertising for one of the gun show producers. He always carries a Smith Airweight in his talis bag. On Yom Kippur the shul holds services at the Loews Hotel here so people can stay over. He did and of course carried his pistol. Unfortunately Pres. Bush was scheduled to stay there the next day so there were hundreds of Secret Service agents milling around. I think one of them figuring out you had a gun would make for a bad Yom Kippur.

DigMe
November 23, 2004, 03:21 PM
Sam,

I don't see your example as the Lord helping those who help themselves. I see that as an example of the Lord helping those who put their faith in and rely on Him...those who call on his name. They didn't jump into the sea and then swim for it..they jumped in the sea and then called on God to save them. That's faith.

The Bible talks over and over and over about waiting on the Lord. I can post scripture after scripture here if you really want me to but it seems unnecessary.


How does this relate to carrying in a house of worship? Simple: You shouldn't rely on G-d to protect you from all of the evils in the world, at least not until you have taken every step possible to protect yourself from those evils. In my mind, one of those steps in this era (speaking technologically, socially and politically) is carrying a firearm.


I think I made it quite clear in my original post that I understand and agree with that. God has given me the ability to protect myself from certain earthly threats and I am willing to follow through on that. I didn't say anything to the contrary.

brad cook

Bulldozer
November 23, 2004, 03:23 PM
I've carried at weddings, funerals, christenings, bar mitzvahs, and a host of other church-related events. I carry anywhere not expressly prohibited by law.

Nobody knows. I'm sure I'm not the only guy out there that does so.

I'm of the firm opinion that God helps those who help themsleves. Churches can be and have been targets of crime. I'd not take too kindly to some hooligan defiling my place of worship.

jojo
November 23, 2004, 03:34 PM
P-32 in the pocket always, minimum.

jojo

P95Carry
November 23, 2004, 04:04 PM
Hey Austin!!! How you doin?! :)

I go to church rarely - usually only when attending an event like wedding, funeral etc. I respect the religious institutions but have no problem or discomforture over carrying within. Concealed means concealed and I feel our right of defence is applicable all places - tho Federal rules make that impossible at times!

At very least - R9 is in pocket - more usually SP-101 is there.

wdlsguy
November 23, 2004, 04:09 PM
P-32 in the pocket always, minimum.

Front pocket or rear pocket? I carry mine in a rear pocket in a pocket holster. Works great until it's time to sit. The gun+holster assembly is very rigid. I'm afraid the button is going to pop off of the pocket someday...

wdlsguy
November 23, 2004, 04:23 PM
In case we needed reminding:

http://www.thedenverchannel.com/news/3942444/detail.html

Havegunjoe
November 23, 2004, 06:10 PM
trying to force their views on everyone, the result was that they managed to take away all churches option of posting against carry. Therefore I carry when attending services.

keyhole
November 23, 2004, 06:13 PM
You always have to be ready, as you cannot usually pick your fights. If you could, I'd choose to stay home that day.

Sungun09
November 23, 2004, 08:06 PM
S&W 640 .357 hollowpoints in a large inner city church....

Sungun09
November 23, 2004, 08:08 PM
S&W 640 .357 hollowpoints in a large inner city church.... I hate surprises..

PinnedAndRecessed
November 23, 2004, 08:25 PM
I carry a sword.

Heb 4:12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

Hardtarget
November 23, 2004, 08:52 PM
Unless something has changed, carrying into the church building for services, is illegal here in Tennessee. It will be interesting to listen to the news if/when a church gets hit during services on a Sunday. Things could get ugly fast.
Mark.

Model520Fan
November 23, 2004, 10:26 PM
Carrying on Yom Tov is a big problem of muktzeh and I don't do it. Shabbos even more so.

As noted above, there are serious opinions that a defensive firearm is NOT muktzeh. Carrying itself is not prohibited on Yom Tov. Concerning Shabbos, is there any chance that it is possible to construct an eiruv in your area?

BTW, there are actually some minority opinions that wearing a weapon is not carrying. They are not generally accepted, and might not apply to a concealed weapon, anyway.

Hypnogator
November 23, 2004, 10:27 PM
When I'm in church, I'm wearing pants.
When I'm wearing pants, I have something in them! :D :D :D

The Rabbi
November 23, 2004, 11:50 PM
As noted above, there are serious opinions that a defensive firearm is NOT muktzeh.

I would have to see some sources to believe this. Someone mentioned Rabbi Goren. I could not give credence to someone who poskened that a person could be a Jew in EY and a non-Jew in chutz.

BTW, there are actually some minority opinions that wearing a weapon is not carrying. They are not generally accepted, and might not apply to a concealed weapon, anyway.

This is a machlokes in Shabbos 63A. The Shulchan Oruch poskens like the chachamim in OC 301:7, that we do not go out with swords etc. A concealed weapon would be even more so.


Carrying itself is not prohibited on Yom Tov.
This is simply not true as stated. Only ochel nefesh is permitted and I do not know how ochel nefesh would apply to concealed carry weapons.

Again, all of this is different in a makom sakana, like LA was and in those circumstances I would have no problem carrying at all.

nick89302
November 24, 2004, 04:04 PM
Murdering would be a sin of commission, not preventing murder would be a sin of omission. Because I have the ability, I have the duty. JMHO

It doesn't really apply to The Rabbi, but Jesus said that the Sabbath was made for Man, not Man for the Sabbath.

I carry a P229/.357SIG in a Comp-Tac CTAC.

TechBrute
November 24, 2004, 04:15 PM
One of my employees goes to the church in Fort Worth that was shot up some time back. It hit home.

ShaiVong
November 24, 2004, 05:48 PM
"I can't disagree with you there rock....but only if it is HIS will that I go."


Nobody decides for me when its time to go, except me. :scrutiny:

Matt G
November 24, 2004, 06:57 PM
One should always carry when one can. You owe it to yourself and to the lives of those you should be protecting. In 1999 we found that even in Fort Worth, one is not safe in a church. (http://www.cnn.com/US/9909/16/church.shooting.03/)

Poll needs an "Occasionally" choice.

CentralTexas
November 24, 2004, 07:31 PM
because if I entered a church I'm sure I would burst into flames! :evil:
CT

m39fan
November 24, 2004, 08:14 PM
Of course I carry! When I was in the pastorate I even had a holster mounted inside the pulpit. In addition, my two trustees always carried. Now that I'm on sabbatical, I still carry but have to be more discrete as the pastor, staff and most of the congregation of the church we now attend are gun-phobic. Most of them will state emphatically that nothing would/could happen in church. This in a church that markets itself to those in "down and out" lifestyles many of which entail criminal activity!!! What happens if those old friends/significant others/spouses/business partners object to their leaving? Wouldn't church be a perfect place to find them? After all who carries in church? Unfortunately, even the LEO's that attend feel this way as they don't carry when in the building. As far as I have been able to ascertain, that leaves me, God and a P-32 to guard a flock of over 600! :eek: You might add us to your prayer list.......

Take Care,
Mike

Tom Servo
November 24, 2004, 10:02 PM
Unless something has changed, carrying into the church building for services, is illegal here in Tennessee.
Same here in Georgia (and quite a few other states, I'm sure). HOWEVER, I'd rather get a misdemeanor slap-on-the-wrist than have to stand by and watch my friends and neighbors get killed. I've actually "made" quite a few folks at my church, and I'm sure I'm not the only one. It's sort of a don't-ask-don't-tell sort of deal.

Oh yeah, and I attend a Lutheran church. I imagine the Southern Babtists carry some SERIOUS ordinance on Sundays :)

mormonsniper
November 25, 2004, 11:08 PM
Possibly.

crewsr
November 26, 2004, 03:41 AM
evil knows no boundries.

Highpower1
November 26, 2004, 03:53 AM
everytime I grace the doors of church I carry. I have ever since I was 21.

macman37
November 27, 2004, 02:33 PM
For some reason I can't vote... but if I could, I'd vote "no".

Unfortunately one of the conditions of CCW in MI is that we can't carry in houses of worship.

sturmruger
November 27, 2004, 02:42 PM
I usually go to church with my family in MN. When I am in MN I am always carrying a gun somewher.

gumshoe4
November 27, 2004, 09:27 PM
Do so virtually every Sunday, usually a 649 or SP101 ankle-carried. As far as I can see from Scripture, it is my duty to protect innocent persons from oppressors, including anyone who would harm my family or members of the congregation.

Bob

snug
November 27, 2004, 10:55 PM
GOD helps those who help themselves! :rolleyes:

Mark whiz
November 28, 2004, 01:49 AM
And here's the follow-up question.........................

How many of you teach/preach while your carrying???

I do and I know a preacher buddy/mentor of mine does as well...................and the churches know it and appreciate it.

David had to kill intruders to protect his flock from harm and those entrusted with God's flock would be wise to be ready to serve likewise.

voilsb
November 28, 2004, 02:01 AM
How many of you teach/preach while your carrying?I have. Main service, 500+ people. College group, 150 people. Small groups, 5-20 people. Nursery, 2-10 infants. One-to-one.

DigMe
November 28, 2004, 11:09 PM
GOD helps those who help themselves!

That's not in the Bible. We already discussed that statement in this thread.

brad cook

SteveS
November 29, 2004, 01:33 PM
Unfortunately one of the conditions of CCW in MI is that we can't carry in houses of worship.

The statute has an exception. If the leaders of the church (priest, elders, church council, etc.) allow it, you can CCW.

Gary in Pennsylvania
January 11, 2005, 03:35 PM
How many of you teach/preach while your carrying???

In PA, CCW is illegal on school property/grounds etc...

That includes colleges and universities. It is also illegal in areas considered to be child day care facilities and the like.


But as for carry in church.....I ALWAYS carry in church.

NORM
January 11, 2005, 04:43 PM
can't in ND.

Lord Bodak
January 11, 2005, 10:51 PM
I don't go to church too often, but if I found a church I really liked, I would speak to the pastor. Permission from the pastor should qualify as "good reason" for Virginia law.

secamp32
January 11, 2005, 11:50 PM
I never go to Synagogue without my Glock 19 and 2 spare mags. It must be a terrorist wet dream, a room full of unarmed (guns are evil) liberal Jews. :banghead: Of all the people in this world that should be pro gun and heavily armed, the Jews should be at the top of the list. I still don't get it. :banghead:

stzd8
January 12, 2005, 12:28 AM
Well,

For one, I know a church in Houston where mostly middle to upper class community goes that has bodyguards sitting a certain sections of the auditorium during sunday service.

And yes, they sure their presence is known. Since I was going there that day cuz a friend brought me, I asked why the 'secret service' ppl? The reply I get is because the pastors get a lot of death threats. And I thought church was a safe place.

pete f
January 12, 2005, 02:41 AM
I carry when I go. My father was a baptist minister and he looked at me and the shoulder holster before I put my suit coat on and gave me the "why?" face. I stated I now had two kids and wife and I was responsible for them. he shrugged and said "I would too!" All my suits were tailored with the shoulder holster on.

Ben_Tucci
January 12, 2005, 04:52 AM
I attend a church where my father is one of the elders and He and I are always armed. While the quote God loves those who love themselves may not be in the Bible...the responsibility to protect and take care of ones family is and that fact makes the decision obvious to me. :cool:

mr hanky
January 12, 2005, 07:47 AM
I agree evil knows no bounds, otherwise there would never have been shootings or anything else bad in a church. I personally have never carried in church, but after reading this it is changing my thinking.

ruger270man
January 12, 2005, 08:17 AM
why wouldnt you? wasnt there a massacre in a texas church a few years ago? people can get killed in a church just as well, its probably a good place for a mass killing spree.

CAPTAIN MIKE
January 12, 2005, 06:33 PM
Okay, we're the "Infidels". Hmmm. Wonder if that means we might get hit going to, inside of, or while leaving church. Never hurts to be ready. I think the way to go is to wear my nicest suit and my "best gun" to church. Concealed, of course.

Model520Fan
August 30, 2005, 12:11 AM
Gunman Kills Self after Shooting Four in Texas Church

SASH, Texas (AP) -- A gunman opened fire in a rural Texas church, killing four people and later killed himself after a nine-hour standoff with police, officials said Monday.

At least one other person was injured.

The suspected gunman, whose name was not released, reportedly knocked on the door of the Sash Assembly of God church Sunday night, then started firing when the door was opened.

Three people were shot, including the pastor, according to Dallas television station WFAA. Two women in a car outside the church were then shot and killed, police said. The identities of those killed were not released.

The man fled and was later tracked to his home near the church in Sash, about 80 miles (129 kilometers) north of Dallas. Sheriff's deputies and a SWAT team surrounded the house, and after the long standoff police said the man surrendered just before 11:00 GMT.

However, when officers entered the home they found him dead, Fannin County Sheriff Kenneth Moore said.

''We have good reason to believe, based at what we see at the scene, that it was a self-inflicted gunshot wound,'' Moore said.

Moore said the motive for the shootings was under investigation.

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