Congress/AWB Watch... be alert please.


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Ironbarr
November 25, 2004, 07:56 PM
Congress may be called back after Thanksgiving to work on the CIA/Intelligence Czar bill that they couldn't agree on. This, of course, could provide the Schumer/Kennedy/Feinstein types to add something (AWB???) to the mix - particularly since the administration wants the Czar bill done.

There have been a few weapons events these past months. The (so-called) hunter event was a shock and antis will make some hay of it. (Too bad it was a SKS/Saiga, take your pick) - if it had been a typical .308/30-Ought-6 it wouldn't be "known" as an "a"-weapon.

I suggest that we diligently watch for an effort to push the (perpetual) ban once again.

Situational awareness - even in politics. -Ironbarr

-Andy

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Lone_Gunman
November 25, 2004, 09:29 PM
The Republicans here tell me we have nothing to worry about regarding gun control, know that their party is in charge.

We should just lock this thread, stick our heads in the sand, and trust the Republican party to keep our guns safe and our rights intact.

Standing Wolf
November 25, 2004, 09:35 PM
...trust the Republican party to keep our guns safe and our rights intact.

Yep, and I can make anybody who follows that course a heck of a deal on some Kansas ocean-front property, too.

Lone_Gunman
November 25, 2004, 09:36 PM
Standing Wolf, I bet you could sell that property like hot cakes to some people round here...

Ironbarr
November 25, 2004, 09:59 PM
Well, until January's revamp of congress, House & Senate Republicans have no more power than before the election. Also - all the prime members of the AWB "renewal +" club are still in their chairs.

We need to see what's coming so don't let the holidays, weather, Iraq, Iran, N. Korea, Osama, Zacarino-oski (sp. whatever), or other noise reduce our noze-4-nooz... let's call it - Intel.

-A

The Rabbi
November 25, 2004, 10:55 PM
The spin in the election is that guns were a deciding issue in the Republican win.
AWB will never happen in this Congress.

Standing Wolf
November 26, 2004, 12:06 AM
The spin in the election is that guns were a deciding issue in the Republican win.
AWB will never happen in this Congress.

Would you like to buy some real estate? It'd be a fine investment, I assure you! It's 400 pristine acres on the Kansas ocean-front about twelve miles south of the mountains.

Seriously: I wouldn't put it 1% of a seventy-seventeenth of an inch past the Republicrats in Congress to concoct another so-called "assault weapons" ban, and if it need be said, Bush has repeatedly stated his willingness to sign such a legal and moral abomination. Our elected misrepresentatives fear the voters only in the few weeks immediately preceeding elections; the rest of the time, they regard themselves as our rulers.

tulsamal
November 26, 2004, 12:24 AM
Congress may be called back after Thanksgiving to work on the CIA/Intelligence Czar bill that they couldn't agree on.

I heard a reporter talking about this. He's been around Congress a long time. He thought it was _virtually certain_ that Congress wouldn't go back into session. He said the members will say they "might" when they are on the record but get them off in a corner and ask them and they say it will never happen. In the first place, they want to go home for the holidays like everybody else. The lame duck types are trying to figure out where they can get a new job. And the ones that are staying are already trying to plan out what to do once the new Congress convenes. But the biggest reason was that why would they want to go back into session and "fail publically?" The idea is that they couldn't come to a decision and pass the bill before. Why go back in to argue and ultimately fail again? It just makes them look bad. Easier to publically say you would like to pass the bill and YOU will come back but "others" don't agree. And you are sad about that but what can you do?

I agree it is a good idea to keep an eye on the Congresscritters but I don't think they will be going back to Washington.

Gregg

Ironbarr
November 26, 2004, 01:23 AM
Thanks for that info. Still... it's not a fact until we see next week's view.

There are (rumors??) that the ban club will push for something in the next session. I know there'll be a big whirly-gig getting the new admin and congress organized, etc., but I suspect that around Feb/March there could be another push for gun control of some sort - Feinstein won't give in easily and (IMO) I think the only thing that would put her effort off would be a major (think "national") need for civilian expertise in firearms.

Again - my opinion.

-Andy

The Rabbi
November 26, 2004, 12:06 PM
I will happily bet Standing Wolf $25 that we will not see an AWB pass Congress until the next election.

CZ52GUY
November 26, 2004, 12:55 PM
I find it ironic (and disturbing) that the same rhetoric that "we'll never sunset the ban" is alive and well.

AWB died, may it rest in peace...forever.

Do we need to remain vigilent? Absolutely!

Is a new AWB (or worse) likely to pass both houses and receive presidential approval? I've not seen objective evidence that it will.

The renewal was a convenient vehicle for RINO's and otherwise skeptical Dem's (yes there are a few). A brand new AWB would be more complicated and even William Jefferson Clinton recognized the folly of his short lived victory in 1994.

People will try, no doubt, and we need to keep them in check, but enthusiastic wagers on a negative outcome is counterproductive defeatism that 2nd Amendment advocacy can do without.

CZ52, out

tulsamal
November 26, 2004, 02:55 PM
Feinstein won't give in easily

Did you see what happened to Feinstein last week on the budget? She was unhappy that the Senate put in a provision saying that you couldn't _force_ a hospital, or other health care agency to perform an abortion. The primary force behind the amendment was Catholic hospitals who were afraid of being sued if they wouldn't perform an abortion on demand. Anyway, Feinstein said "there was no way this was going to pass" in the Senate. She was going to stop it no matter what it took. Ultimately she couldn't do a damn thing about it and it passed. And this is before the new Senate even comes in and makes the numbers even tougher for her.

I don't think she has a lot of power left in the Senate!

Gregg

Ash
November 26, 2004, 03:54 PM
The AWB passed barely in a Democrat-held house 10 years ago. It won't happen in the House now. The vast majority of southern Democrat congressmen wouldn't risk it, and the Republican congressmen by no means would risk it. Remember, both Republicans and Democrats in the House have to run again in two years. The Republicans in the House are pretty staunchly pro-2nd ammendment and wouldn't let it pass.

Ash

George S.
November 26, 2004, 04:11 PM
Even if Congress returns for a special session, the activity will probably be limited to the CIA issues. Their won't be enought time to go thru the process of adding any AWB riders, committee work and vote swapping/buying/selling.

And after the last go-round with that rider that would have allowed committes to review individual tax returns, I would think that sneaking totally un-related riders onto a bill would be difficult to do right now.

Next year may be a different issue. While the citizens may forget about shootings and assorted crimes that involved "assault weapons", the Anit's in Congress will not. They will use any method they can to bring up tales of mass killings and bloodshed where it suits their stance. That's where villigance will really be necessary.

Standing Wolf
November 26, 2004, 09:51 PM
I will happily bet Standing Wolf $25 that we will not see an AWB pass Congress until the next election.

Truth to tell, I dropped a quarter into a slot machine in Carson City, Nevada in the summer of 1972. That's it. Some people just aren't cut out for wagering, I guess.

Seriously: I believe—and sincerely hope, of course—you're right; I'm absolutely sure, however, we'd be utter fools to trust our elected misrepresentatives even a sixteenth of an inch with the nation's civil rights.

The price of liberty is eternal vigilance.

Dbl0Kevin
November 26, 2004, 10:36 PM
The odds of seeing another AWB at the federal level are slim to none unless there is a massive shift in the country. While politicians may be liars, weasels and cheats there are very few that are actually stupid. The simple fact is that there is a far greater number of pro-gun people who vote for that single issue than there are anti-gun votes to be gained. Just the nature of the beast. They are actually taking something AWAY from us which makes us fight harder. The anti's just have a feel good philosophy that really doesn't effect them day to day. Which group would YOU rather go up against?

Justin
November 27, 2004, 12:43 AM
I will happily bet Standing Wolf $25 that we will not see an AWB pass Congress until the next election. Just because that is a sucker's bet doesn't mean that the Republicans are totally on our side. The only reason that they won't pass a new AWB is because they fear us.

Remember how we all lit up the Congressional switchboards a few months ago?

What's that bit about eternal vigilance being the price paid for something or other? :)

reagansquad
November 27, 2004, 07:15 AM
This is a perfect example of why you folks need to get out there and start working for Dean in 08. He's more pro-gun than Bush. :neener:

victory
November 27, 2004, 07:17 AM
I voted for Badnarik, so no matter what happens in the next 4 years, it won't be my fault.

Lone_Gunman
November 27, 2004, 09:15 AM
This is a perfect example of why you folks need to get out there and start working for Dean in 08. He's more pro-gun than Bush.

Reagansquad, I know you are being facetious, but what gun control does Dean support?

The Rabbi
November 27, 2004, 07:49 PM
Just because that is a sucker's bet doesn't mean that the Republicans are totally on our side. The only reason that they won't pass a new AWB is because they fear us.

And isnt that the best reason?? Politicians generally are motivated by fear of losing office. Not always and not universally but a vast majority of the time. Look how the Dem leadership has changed tune on Bush's judicial appointments now that Daschle has gone down in flames. They're scared. They certainly dont want to lose more votes.
Dbl0Kevin is exactly right. AWB will never happen in this congress.

Justin
November 27, 2004, 08:09 PM
Call me a hopeless romantic, but I find it rather troublesome that politicians are motivated purely by fear of reprisal at the voting booths rather than out of respect for basic human civil rights.

:rolleyes:

The Rabbi
November 27, 2004, 08:15 PM
Politicians are motivated by lots of things. But one of those things is that they are representing those who put them in office, which is how it should be.
I doubt too many people see gun cntrol as a civil rights issues, except the antis who actually think that restricting guns is more moral because it results in fewer deaths (and it is for the children after all).

pittspilot
November 28, 2004, 11:34 AM
Folks,

The Republican leadership killed the AWB restoration bills. They did this at a fair amount of political risk to themselves. Witness the 70% in favor polling numbers. However, they paid no political price at the polls. In fact they gained, especially in the Senate.

Therefore, the Republicans will have judged that being opposed to gun control has no political downside. I think they have learned that being anti-gun has a downside.

I am not saying that gun control legislation is not possible. But I would be stunned if the Republicans even consider it. Why would they want to screw their constitutents, when there is no political upside?

I actually think we can make some strides in the opposite direction. I think the NRA will be having a new swagger through the hall of Congress. If we can mobilize like we did for the AWB sunset, we may be able to get some good things through.

Ironbarr
November 28, 2004, 11:41 AM
Well, it had best be happening NOW - as the first two years can be productive, but the last two - well - the other "team" will be laying plans for the 2008 election... etc.

-Andy

El Rojo
November 28, 2004, 01:02 PM
I guess I shouldn't complain that there are still those here among us that think a new AWB will ever go through with the Republicans in charge of the House, Senate, and Oval Office. They still take a cautious watch even though in November of 1994 the Democrats lost their standing in the House because of the first AWB. They take a cautious watch even though the republicans let the AWB sunset as it should. Still they some how think that the now untouchable Bush will suddenly shed his semi-conservative clothing all in order to bring back an assault weapons ban and kill his party's gains come November 2006 or give the party zero chance in November 2008. Yes, the Republicans are out to get on the left's good side for some reason clear to everyone but those with logic and reasoning. There is a difference between keeping an eye on the critters and drumming up some hysteria for something that isn't going to happen.

Politicians are sneaky folk, but they aren't stupid.

I voted for Badnarik, so no matter what happens in the next 4 years, it won't be my fault.Not true. You threw your vote away on a third party candidate that had no chance of winning. Dubya is president again because you didn't vote Kerry. He is in office because of you. If Bush screws up it will be because you didn't stop us from putting him in office. You can't get away from your responsibility.

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