[makarov]

Just went out on my lunch break to the local shop and spotted a Mak with fixed sights. They had a Russian .380 a few weeks ago that I passed on. This one I asked to see. On the side was made in Germany and a long manufacturer name ending in Suhl. The grip is some hard plastic atrocity, not original I don't think. The importer is not Century, but someplace in NY. Anyway, the gun is in nice shape and the price was $139.... I told them I would take it on the spot.

Have to wait 10 days to get it, gotta register for CCW soon, just so I can take my toys home sooner.

- Makarov

[oweno]

That is a wicked-good price on an E. German Mak. Way-to-go! Just in case you don't know about this site, check out:

www.makarov.com

they have good prices on ammo too, as does Dan's Ammo - a Google will find their url for you.

and they have 'real' E. German grips for not much money.

Owen

[alamo]

Must be the Ernst Thaelman factory in Suhl. Great price, is it in good condition?

http://www.makarov.com/makfaq.html

[firestar]

That is a great price for a EG Mak! You must be living right.:D I see them selling for about $300 all the time.

[Zip06]

Congratulations. Christmas came early for you.

[makarov]

Thanks, every once in a while I run into a very good deal. Sometimes I hesitate and when I go back they are gone. This was too good to pass up. Yes, I am very familiar with Makarov.com - great resource. I will have to get some replacement grips. I have never seen any like the ones that are currently on the gun, they are not original E. German grips. They are grey plastic with an "R" on them, blocky design with small thumbrest. I'll either put Pearce grips on it or get some replacement originals from Karl at makarov.com

Will post pics and a range report when I get it. Hope it will shoot as well as my Russian. The finish definitely nicer than the Russian. Much smoother metalwork and bluing, and the Ruskie isn't all that bad.

[Stephen A. Camp]

Hello. I expected no real surprises in this test today of a like new E. German Makarov pistol I purchased a few weeks ago. I was wrong. There were two major surprises and they'll be discussed in the text below.

I did this test on another make of Makarov as the E.G. version is generally considered to be the "best of breed" in terms of fit and finish as well as trigger pull(s).

The Pistol: As mentioned, it's a like new E. German Mak and it's entirely stock from the miniscule fixed sights to the recoil spring. Finish is a very even, bright blue and well-executed, being even all over the pistol. It is better finished in terms of blue and lack of toolmarks when compared to my new commercial Bulgarian. The DA pull is both smoother and a bit lighter and the SA trigger pull is actually crisp and lighter as well!

Though large for its caliber, this all-steel pistol can be easily concealed and is in the price range for many who desire a dependable, accurate defensive arm.
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid39/p65b1722f5dae4ea4d4566eea06c389ce/fd06bef1.jpg
Caliber is not at the tops of my list for protection, but it beats nothing.

Ammunition: The following ammo was used in this pistol. Listed velocities are based on 10-shot averages chronographed 15' from the muzzle. Extreme Spread & Std. Deviation are listed as well.

9x18mm Makarov (East German Makarov)

LVE 115 gr JHP Ave. Vel. = 1025 ft/sec (ES:12/SD:5.38)!
Sellier & Bellot 95 gr ball Ave. Vel. = 924 ft/sec (ES:264/SD:81)
Barnaul 95 gr ball Ave. Vel. = 1058 ft/sec (ES:45/SD:13)!
Fiocchi 95 gr ball Ave. Vel. = 1020 ft/sec (ES:89/SD: 32)
Corbon 95 gr JHP Ave. Vel. = 1100 ft/sec (ES:29/SD: 12)
Hornady 95 gr XTP Ave. Vel. = 984 ft/sec (ES:168/SD:60) HV:1102 ft/sec, LV: 933 ft/sec

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid39/p0153f0d2b17326b853b0136bc2788a68/fd06bef3.jpg
The loose rounds are the LVE JHPs.....

I was very surprised at the average velocity and consistency shown in the LVE 115 gr JHP! At an average of 1025 ft/sec, this compares very favorably with Federal's std. pressure 9x19mm 115 gr JHP when fired from a similarl length bbl'd 9mm Glock 26. That velocity is only about 75 ft/sec more than this Makarov load!

The "scientific mud expansion test" on the LVE JHP was also promising...even if it doesn't really mean much!
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid39/p49e0b29c644c7b81cb02c4cd004ed740/fd06be78.jpg
This round provides another "surprise" later on...

Note also the extreme spread in the S&B ammo. I was surprised to see the extreme spread in the Hornady XTP load as this has proven very consistent and accurate in the past. I did note that the spread was upward in speed and listed the high and low velocities.

Continued...

[Stephen A. Camp]

Shooting: Today's shooting was done at 7, 10, and 25 yards. All was fired off-hand, standing, and using a 2-hand hold with the exception of the 25 yard target which was fired from a rest. Groups are slow-fire unless otherwise noted.

10 Yards:

Here's some 5-shot groups with various ball rounds. I was NOT pleased with the first group (upper left) fired with the S&B so I fired a second group (lower right) and suspect that the first group's spread was me.
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid39/p319d63e4defd05a5cdc266868939f2a6/fd06bef6.jpg

These are the 10 Yard JHP loads...
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid39/p4bf4b120fb0fe5d28f8356ddba4437e9/fd06bef7.jpg

Firing these groups, I felt I had determined that the pistol is accurate and kind of developed a "baseline" on which to judge spreads and groups fired at speed.

7 Yards: Two groups were fired at this distance. One was a rapid-fired group fired as fast as I could obtain a flash sight picture with all shots being fired single-action. It consisted of 8 shots fired with the Sellier & Bellot 95 gr FMJ. I'd estimate each shot being fired roughly a second apart. Didn't have access to a timer today so this is just a guess. The smallish sights were harder to find than the Novak sights on the Bulgarian Mak tested previously.

Still, even with the little stock sights, accurate defensive shooting could be done...
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid39/p1b38f0f06878dabafa0372d1ba72d34d/fd06bebc.jpg

Because this is a conventional DA/SA pistol. I fired a group consisting entirely of double-action shots to see if it was significantly larger since most folks using the pistol for defense would fire the first shot DA.

The double-action shots, fired from a full magazine and the gun topped off with a round in the chamber were fired in the same manner as the rapid-fire group above. I did use the harder kicking LVE JHP as a "worst case" felt-recoil load, though nothing in this caliber was much in terms of recoil.
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid39/p6f3a992a1fb2abe7d4eb8277ced568c3/fd06bef8.jpg

25 Yards: This group was fired single-action and in slow-fire. It was also fired from a rest. Frankly, I'm quite pleased with these results from a "pocket pistol."

Even with the small sights, one could get deliberate hits at what might be considered "long distance" for this type pistol. Were my eyes not so old, the group might have been tighter.
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid39/pf2deea6268c4a111b6cbd7bb11964694/fd06bef4.jpg
The group consists of 17 shots; a full gun and then a magazine change with more rounds fired. Ammo was the Russian Barnaul 95 gr ball.

Observations: My Bulgarian Mak is fitted with the popular rubber Pearce grips and I expected that the considerably thinner plastic originals on the E. German to deliver more "snap" or felt recoil. Perhaps in a side-by-side test, I'd note a difference, but all of the rounds fired today, including the "hot" 115 gr JHP did not have significant felt recoil to me. To me, it's a toss up as to which is the best stock; the originals are thinner and easier to conceal, but the rubber ones do feel better to me.

Here's another surprise for me and it's related to the LVE 115 gr JHP, a load in which I'm developing interest. It was not reliable. On occassion, this round would fail to feed from the magazine. This always occurred when the magazine contained 7 or more rounds of it. I tried another surplus magazine with the same result. Those of you who are into Makarovs might have noticed the finger extension shown in the 25 yard group picture. It's one of the "concealed carry" Mak magazines sold through www.makarov.com and is a sound, factory magazine that's been refinished in a dark, matte finish, has a Wolff extra power spring, has a brass magazine floorplate w/extension and has reportedly been tested for function. The LVE JHP failed in it, too.

Even in a gun known for its reliability, this shows that ANY weapon considered for personal protection MUST be tested with the chosen defensive load! Never forget this...even if using a weapon having a reputation for flawless function.

Contrasting this was the perfect performance of the Hornady and Corbon JHPs. I THINK that the LVE round may be a tad too long or perhaps just this pistol doesn't "like" it. I don't know.....yet.

I checked the Speer No. 12 reloading manual where they advise that with a 95 gr ball, the LOA should be 0.984" at max and list the LOA for their ball round @ 0.980". I also measured a couple of S&B 95 gr ball rounds @ 0.970."

Today, I received a shipment of Hornady 95 gr XTP in this caliber and these rounds have not been cycled through my pistols at all. I measured the LOA of a box of twenty-five.

LOA:

12 measured 0.938"
12 measured 0.940"
1 measured 0.935"

So, except for 1, they're within 2/1000th's". The max variation was 0.005."

I then measured 25 of the Brown Bear 115 gr JHP.

LOA:

4 measured: 0.959"
2 measured: 0.961"
3 measured: 0.960"
2 measured: 0.958"
1 measured: 0.955"
3 measured: 0.953"
6 measured: 0.951"
2 measured: 0.950"
2 measured: 0.952"

Not so consistent as the Hornady. How much this inconsistency contributes I don't know, but max variation was 0.011."

Still, the stuff worked so long as no more than 6 were in the magazine.

Also, while the LVE load definitely has my attention, it should be noted that much more extensive expansion/penetration tests would be needed before trusting it for protection. Forced to choose today, I'd go with either the Corbon or Hornady JHPs, probably the latter.

If you have a Mak and use it for protection with JHPs, you might want to stock up on your favorite brand right now as Corbon's discontinued it. I THINK CCI/Speer still offers their Gold Dot Hollow Point in this caliber.

I'm no Makarov expert, but I do think the E. German guns are likely at the top of the heap in terms of finish and smoothness. Having said that, I did not note this being a better shooter or besting the Bulgarian in terms of shooting. It remains a very nice pistol if one likes Maks and one I'll likely leave stock and appreciate for what it is.

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid39/p9aa4c55cd8ebbbbfb52f156d90c943a4/fd06bef2.jpg

Best.

PS: Recalling the way that the "lip" of the jacket around the hollow point in the Brown Bear JHP round kind of extend, I gently "broke" the lower edge at the feed ramp. I cleaned the gun and reassembled. It now cycles by hand with the Brown Bear JHP ammo, but I've not fired it yet. Before, it would about half the time, but I didn't notice this as I'd not cycled it through other than when loading for the report. We'll see and I'll report back if it actually worked or not. It also cycled smoothly through the Bulgarian and I'll fire it from that, too. It may be that there's an easy "fix" should one want to fire this ammunition. We'll see.

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid39/p6de3770f2e987f2a2828e7b11f0d6591/fd04ef7e.jpg
At the bottom of the one-piece feedramp, you can see the broken, smoothed edge.

[Stephen A. Camp]

Hello. As part of a recent "Range Report" on the E. German Makarov, I mentioned some feeding problems with the Brown Bear (LVE) 115 gr JHP. Maks are known for many things, but usually reliability is at the top of its characteristics.

I'd noted that the longer 115 gr JHP would hang a bit at the bottom of the feed ramp. Seeing that there was a sharp edge at the very bottom of the feed ramp, I later "broke" the edge with a very slight rounding of that edge, but had only tested by cycling loaded rounds through the gun by hand.

The edge at the bottom of the feed ramp was gently rounded to see if that would alleviate feeding problems with the Brown Bear JHP...
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid39/p6de3770f2e987f2a2828e7b11f0d6591/fd04ef7e.jpg

Today, I decided to test the E. German Makarov with that round after breaking the lower feed ramp edge. I also have added a Wolff 19lb recoil spring in the E. German as is the case in my Novak-sighted Bulgarian Makarov. The Bulgarian was taken to the range to see if the 115 gr would feed in it as well. The feed ramp on that pistol was NOT altered at all.

No emphasis was placed on shooting groups from various distances as that's been done in my previous reports that deal primarily with the pistols. I did shoot 5 shots per load @ 10 yards simply to compare the grouping capabilities of each load. Only JHPs were fired today.

The Pistols: Shooting was primarily done with the unaltered E. German Makarov (except extra strength recoil spring), but the Bulgarian was used to test feed reliability along with the German gun.

Test Guns: Novak-sighted Bulgarian w/Pearce Grips & E. German Mak.
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid48/p1e0d611c517d5082eea5def4d4e72728/fcbd260d.jpg
The magazine shown is one of the refurbished/refinished ones sold at www.makarov.com as the "CCW Magazine." It has a brass floor plate and a Wolff extra strength spring. It worked flawlessly with all loads...as did the unaltered magazines with each pistol.

Ammunition: Many if not most folks shoot ball in their Maks, but regardless of one's opinion on the viability of the 9x18 Makarov as a "stopper," some folks do use it for such. Therefore, today only JHP ammo was used. It was chronographed and the average velocity (10-shot average) shown along with the extreme spread and standard deviation.

Very informal expansion tests were done as well. I didn't have enough plastic jugs to do "scientific water expansion tests" with but one round and since there's been quite a bit of interest in Barnaul's 95 gr JHP, I did the test on that one. "Scientific mud expansion tests" were done on all of the others except the Corbon. I ran out of it before I could do the test. Another reason that the Barnaul was used is because it can be had! It's my understanding that both Corbon and Hornady have or will discontinue 9x18mm Makarov. I've seen quite a few questions on various boards about the Barnaul JHP.

Data below was obtaining using the E. German pistol.

Hornady 95 gr XTP: (Lot # 020306) Average Vel: 938 ft/sec
ES: 63/ SD: 21

Corbon 95 gr JHP +P: (Lot # 200002-2) Average Vel: 1088 ft/sec
ES: 53/ SD: 27

Brown Bear 115 gr JHP: (Lot #H02-07-01) Average Vel: 1007 ft/sec
ES: 33/ SD: 10

Barnaul 95 gr JHP: (Lot # A27-08) Average Vel: 1030 ft/sec
ES: 66/ SD: 30

These figures compare closely with those obtained during the previous report. The Barnaul was not used in that test, but in that test, which was done in a bit warmer weather than today's 26 degrees, but the Hornady XTP averaged 984 ft/sec, Corbon got 1100 ft/sec, and the Brown Bear averaged 1025 ft/sec. In the same ball park and were fired from the same pistol.

This is how the Barnaul 95 grain JHP is packaged. Note the flat nose on a rounded bullet. It closely resembles the Brown Bear 115 gr JHP, but is shorter.
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid48/p6422d18a292b22fe05c6e519dbea6e55/fcbd15f6.jpg

The Brown Bear 115 gr JHPs are on the left with the 95 gr Barnaul JHPs are on the right.
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid48/p7a7229a85c98513a9c5a06970226b2dd/fcbd15e9.jpg

Side-by-side comparison of the "LVE" Brown Bear & Barnaul. For those interested, LOA for the Brown Bear JHP: 0.960," Barnaul JHP: 0.939," Barnaul 95 gr ball: 0.979," and Sellier & Bellot 95 gr ball: 0.975." The Barnaul is on the right.
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid48/pfb65132cb534fefe03032b07597374d5/fcbd1534.jpg

Hornady's 95 gr XTP was used as well. I THINK that Speer will continue to produce their Gold Dot Hollow Point in this caliber; I had none of it for testing.
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid48/pbda2163846432e70342c4101329f0f19/fcbd152a.jpg

...and Corbon's 95 gr +P. It is the only round labeled "+P,"but I suspect that the Brown Bear would be if produced in the U.S.
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid48/pc0115f5d8a88bdc09b9f0010047c66c9/fcbd152f.jpg

Continued....

[Stephen A. Camp]

Shooting: The only groups fired today were fired standing and two-handed @ 10 yards. Each group consisted of 5 shots. I was cold and didn't "trust" the first group fired with the Barnaul, so a second group was fired. All of the loads grouped well, but frankly, my hands were so cold that I couldn't begin to say which is actually the most accurate.

10-Yard Groups:
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid48/p978871475ea4bc9b1933098803003ed2/fcbcf2ce.jpg

At this distance, all rounds had about the same POI for POA.

Each pistol was fired as rapidly as possible using the magazine that came with it and the "CCW magazine" mentioned above for a total of 3 magazines-full (8 rnds), starting with one in the bbl and the magazine "topped off." There were zero failures to feed or extract with either pistol. The magazine from the Bulgarian was also used in the E. German and visa-versa; again, no failures. It appears that the "treatment" on the EG's feed ramp worked fine. I also repeated the above rapid-fire to the same degree using a standard strength recoil spring. There was no difference; 100% feed reliability. I'll leave the 18lb spring in both guns for use with standard velocity loads since they work fine even with the relatively "slow" Hornady XTP load. By the way, there were no marks on any of the rounds' primers from the firing pin using either the standard or 19lb springs.

The Barnaul 95 gr JHP was fired into two milk jugs filled with water. It penetrated both, but was laying on the ground about 2' behind the second one. It measures 0.571" at its widest and weighed 94 grains.
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid48/p0a021a05d90acdee333d30d87e9e2923/fcbd15ef.jpg

I would estimate penetration at 8 or 9" of water. I suspect it's a bit less in ballistic gelatin.

Just for grins, I compared the "scientific water expansion test" on the Barnaul JHP to a "scientific mud expansion test" for the same load. They're kind of interesting and somewhat similar.
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid48/p91a5c934c69de77cc249d99fcdf6bed2/fcbd15f5.jpg

Then I did the Brown Bear 115 gr JHP and compared the "mud" tests against the Barnaul JHP...
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid48/pb6e40419505f0ab2ae62fc3648c315df/fcbd15eb.jpg
The Brown Bear does appear to expand more, doesn't it? Expansion's not everything; more later on.

As mentioned above, I did NOT do any "scientific expansion" tests on the Corbon as I ran out of it!

Here is Hornady's 95 gr XTP after the "mud test."
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid48/p53f4aa093230d725342762930d51ac44/fcbd152e.jpg

Observations:

First, while I noted that there were zero malfunctions due to feeding of any rounds or extraction, that does NOT mean there there was not a malfunction. It occurred when 1 rnd of the Brown Bear 115 gr JHP failed to fire from the E. German Makarov. A second hit fired it. I'd checked this pistol when I initially shot it and it does NOT have a problem with light firing pin strikes. I don't know if this is a rarity or not with the Brown Bear ammo, but it was not reassuring.

While the Brown Bear fed fine by hand and in firing, it did NOT feed as smoothly as any of the other JHPs that were tried. The Barnauls in particular feed so smoothly that it was almost likely operating the slide with an empty pistol!

Even though the slowest of the lot fired today, Hornady's XTP did appear very capable of expansion. It's not surprising that it apparently works in the 9x18mm Mak's velocity window since that's the only caliber I'm aware that that bullet would be used in.

It is not my first or second choice as a defensive round, but some folks will by choice or necessity use it for such. Many opine that at least 10" of penetration in 10% gelatin is required for a defense round with many others wanting from 12 to 16". The round comes up short in this regard for about anything but a face-on torso shot when viewed using the above parameters. You will decide if it's "enough" for your situation.

What I'd really like to see is one of the major makers design a 110 or 115 gr JHP that is reliable and "slick" in feeding and that would penetrate about 12" in ballistic gelatin. I'm told that neither the XTP nor the Corbon will expand in gelatin after penetration of 4 layers of denim, a commonly-used obstacle in such testing. It would be nice if the desired JHP mentioned above would properly expand after such. I don't know if it's possible, but perhaps a Pow'Rball type round from Corbon could be produced?

Anyway, hope this is of some use to the Makarov fans amongst us.

Best.

[Kahrma]

It's hard to follow that Stephen feller.

Theres just something about the EG's

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid53/p6a1bbedf1f08e566aca2e4786a80ec3b/fc91ef12.jpg

This HP Barnual ammo is $5 a box. This is 25 yards.

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid53/pb499928e4dcfbda1e23296c4c5962e6e/fc91ef13.jpg

[Kahr carrier]

I glad I open this THREAD READING MR CAMPS REVIEW IS A GUILTY PLEASURE BECAUSE THEY ARE INFORMATIVE AND WELL WRITTEN.:D

[Tecolote]

If it's marked Made in Germany you likely have a Simpson Suhl imported by SOG in the 1990s. If not then more than likely it's an EG Mak. The SOG Suhls are pretty rare and getting more expensive. Either way you got a great deal at $139. I wish I had your luck.

[Stephen A. Camp]

I do, too!

Best.

[Kestrel]

Stephen,

Is that Mak with the Novak sights yours? Who put the sights on it? Is the gun refinished?

Thanks for a great write-up.

Steve

[Stephen A. Camp]

Hello. Yes, it's mine. I bought the slide with the sights already on it via www.makarov.com where it was being sold as a "Beast Enterprises Conversion" for the Mak. It came with what I believe to be a parkerized finish on the new, commercial Bulgarian slide.
It's my understanding that while the 'smith (don't recall name) that did the conversions is now ill and not able to, at the site, they will install Novaks on your slide.

Best.

[Tecolote]

Anyone know where I can find a NIB Mil Surp Bulgie?

[alamo]

Sounds like the ones SOG has are in unissued condition:

http://www.gunboards.com/forums/UltraBoard.cgi?action=Read&BID=42&TID=25513&P=1&SID=189518#ID11