M-N M44 problem


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JimJD
November 28, 2004, 02:02 PM
Hi all,

I have a question about an accuracy problem pertaining to My M-N M44.
This past friday I took it out for the second time to the range and at fifty yards My groups were at about five or six inches. When I took it out to a hundred yards, My groups opened up to about ten to twelve inches. :confused:
This is with the bayonet extended, wich helped to not only tighten up those horrible groups, but also changed My POI to the right. With the bayonet folded, it was much, much worse. Ammo used was Wolf 148 Gr. FMJ's and S&B 180 Gr. SP's.
I really don't think it's Me. I'm fine with other rifles. I'm doing everything right on My end, so I do believe it's the rifle.
Anyone have any ideas on what is causing this? The rifleling and crown looks fine. Maybe something has to be done with the stock? If, in the end it's a problem that can't be fixed, at least I have a nice(to Me) collectable.
By the way, it's a 1944 M44 Soviet Russian made at Ivhesk.

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wasrjoe
November 28, 2004, 02:07 PM
Do any of your other guns have as much kick and muzzle flash as the M44? It's definitely not unheard of to be good at certain rifles and very poor at other ones.

JimJD
November 28, 2004, 02:11 PM
I have a Remington 336 30-30 and have no problems with it.
Add to that, I've fired My friend's M-N M44 a few times with no problems at all.
I've also tried out .308's, and 30-06's and had some great results.
:confused:

wasrjoe
November 28, 2004, 02:40 PM
Hmmmm, interesting. And the stock doesn't wiggle back and for at all? (My M38 used to until I got all the screws tightened right.) Has this happened more than once? Is it possible that you just had a bad day with the M/N? (I've had that happen, couldn't hit crap with it for some reason one day.)

Otherwise, I don't know. I just can't think of many things that can go wrong with what's basically a bullet launching tube. Perhaps I'm not creative enough.

cracked butt
November 28, 2004, 02:55 PM
This past friday I took it out for the second time to the range and at fifty yards My groups were at about five or six inches. When I took it out to a hundred yards, My groups opened up to about ten to twelve inches.

To tell you the truth, with my limited experience with M44's that doesn't sound all that bad.

George S.
November 28, 2004, 03:12 PM
I don't think the M44 would be as accurate as say the 91/30 at 100 yards due to the shorter barrell, but that sound's a bit much even for the M44 carbine. Having the bayonet extended is supposed to help with barrel harmonics and tighten the groups.

My 91/30 will get 8-10" groups at 200 yards and that rifle was designed with a 200 yard battle zero in mind. I haven't tried any of the Wolf ammo yet but I use primarily the Czech silvertip stuff.

Check to make sure the action screws are tight and that the barrel and receiver doesn't move around in the stock. You might be able to shim the receiver using some thin brass sheet to tighten things up. It would be difficult to keep the barrel free due to the handguard rings.

If you can't get any better groups, consider having it counterbored about 3/4". I have seen some M-N's where the rifling disappears right at the muzzle from years of cleaning with a steel rod and having it wear the lands right off.

You might also visit here: www.russian-mosin-nagant-forums.com to get some information.

schizrade
November 28, 2004, 06:56 PM
Took my M44 out for the first time today and got 4" groups at 50 yards and 8" at 100 yards. I am happy. I love the flash and the insane kick. People were moving away from me because of the percussion! :D Well most of them were shooting .223 and .308 and were not happy about my M44. :rolleyes: Not a big fan of the South Bay here. Back to Chabot next week. They like my boomstick.

Red Tornado
November 28, 2004, 07:58 PM
Try to get a muzzle wear gauge and see if it's actually as good as it looks. It may be shot out, or as George S. said, cleaned out.

FWIW, I mostly shoot Czech silvertip in my 91/30 and my groups were about 5", when I tried some Wolf, my groups went to around 3". Unfortunately that's only 50 yards, I just can't focus on those sights very well. (I'm getting some Mojo sights for Christmas, so hopefully my groups will improve.) So, some of the variance might be me as opposed to the ammo.
RT

armoredman
November 28, 2004, 08:18 PM
Was it counterbored? I get 3.5 inch at 100- yards wth my M38 and Wolf ammo. Looked over at Russian Mosin Nagant Page and Forum? I don't have the link right now, sorry. If anyone can help with the MN, they can. I will be getting a 91/30 soon, hope it can do as well if not much better than the M38!

JimJD
November 28, 2004, 08:22 PM
Was it counterbored?

I'm not sure, how can I tell if it was?
I need to go and check if those screws are not loose or anything.
That and a couple of other things.

jefnvk
November 29, 2004, 08:45 PM
If it were counterbored, there would be no rifling at the end of the barrel. Try sticking a tip of a bullet down the bore. If it goes down the bore to the shoulder of the case, its CB'd. If it stops on the bullet, its not.

Has this ever shot a better group? Or, is it possible you just aren't adjusted to the heavy trigger?

JimJD
November 29, 2004, 09:50 PM
Jefnvk, thanks for that tip. :D
I just tried it, and it stops on the bullet. So I guess it's not counterbored.
The first time I took it out, I only had time to shoot it at fifty yards. I achieved a 3.5-4.5 inch grouping.
My rifle's screws are not loose... Hmmm...
I don't know, maybe I was just having a bad day. Or maybe it's a little bit of colum A and a little bit of colum B. Hopefully I'll be able to take it out again this weekend and see what happens.
Thanks for all the help everyone. If anyone has any other ideas or suggestions, please tell Me. :)

Sylvilagus Aquaticus
November 29, 2004, 10:25 PM
It's just a thought, but you might try cleaning the barrel lands and grooves very carefully and thoroughly with a good copper remover. If there's an accumulation of goo in there it will most assuredly affect your accuracy. I know almost all M44's are 'factory rearsenaled' whatever that really means, but that doesn't make up for a lack of Ivan and Vladimir not giving it a good swipe.

It's not that bad an idea for the rest of us with an older rifle, either. I have a Swede back here somewhere I should go do now.....


Regards,
Rabbit.

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