fox hunting in uk


November 28, 2004, 08:56 PM
interesting article in wall street journal opinion page.
liberal override veto to ban fox hunting

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November 28, 2004, 10:23 PM
That place is whack.
Yet the deeper modern rift between the urban elite and the disempowered countryside is more salient. The urban professionals backing the ban have ideas about themselves, very precious ideas. They are civilized. They recycle. They believe that meat grows in cellophane packets. They abhor genetically modified foods and animal testing. They are good. Britain's country dwellers, who actually make things, grow things, raise things and, yes, kill things, are too busy to worry about being good.

Fox hunting turned an unpleasant necessity, the eradication of livestock predators, into a ritual--an excuse for a frolic on horseback, fresh air, fellowship and a warming drink. And therein lies the nugget. For the virtuous, killing animals grimly is OK, but killing animals and enjoying it amounts to sadism and is therefore unacceptable. What was legislated was not so much what rural sportsmen are allowed to do as what they are allowed to feel.

Alas, Europe in general is suffering under the tyranny of Goodness. The same impulse to legislate virtue drives the antismoking lobby. Hate-crime legislation levies additional jail time on criminals not for what they did, but why. And recycling is embraced as an intrinsically virtuous idea, whether or not its economics or even its environmental merits add up. Thus Goodness is not about doing good but affecting it, and about telling moral inferiors what they may or may not enjoy. In sum, the hunting ban is about vanity.

November 28, 2004, 10:32 PM
In sum, the hunting ban is about vanity. Incorrect!! It is about also deprivation of freedoms and tradition - and let's not close eyes either - it is about subjugation and the spread of innane liberalism.

The brave new world advances - yet another step. :rolleyes: :barf:

November 29, 2004, 05:01 AM
Don't forget Class War as well.

(Hmmm... wonder why the Left never calls for Class Lets-Discuss-This-Diplomatically-And-Ask-The-UN-To-Mediate?)

November 29, 2004, 05:54 AM
That did not come from the Wall Street Journal. It comes from FOX news. There is a joke there somewhere.

The whole issue is clouded in arguments about animal cruelty, pest control efficiency, sport and entertainment and more.

There probably is a class element to it. As there probably is in the US when anti-hunters portray hunters as ignorant rednecks drinking beer and taking potshots at living creatures.

Art Eatman
November 29, 2004, 09:58 AM
It's reflected here quite notably in this recent election. Urban vs. rural, with--by and large--urban votes coming to have more and more influence on our society.

The 2000 elections in the state of Texas saw the transfer of political power in the Legislature from rural to urban.

It's fortunate that a majority of urban voters are in the moderate to conservative range of political views, even if the more liberal views get far more publicity in the media.

Thinking about the old saying of "The squeaky wheel gets the most grease," it seems that for now most voters figure that enough grease has been applied.

Regardless, many assaults on traditional--yet harmless--pastimes continue...


November 29, 2004, 10:22 AM
Urban populations are expanding more rapidly. There is definitely an element of incomprehension from some urban types. I was lucky, my grandparents were farmers, some of my aunts and uncles still are, so I got to spend a bit of time on farms when I was a kid despite being an urban type myself.

I rapidly learned that yes we could give the bullocks names but they were still going to the slaughterhouse, and if I wanted to eat a Sunday roast I had no right to complain. Not everyone learns that way. I watched a great programme yesterday about a Mississippi river-rat and he said that killing is what we do, and at least he don't hire no mercenary to do his killing and his butchering for him.

Got to say - I really don't care about foxhunting and I've said that before. I am bothered by the unnecessary criminalisation of law-abiding types. It was a stupid election promise, fulfilled finally just before a new election is due. It's politics and nothing else.

Chuck Jennings
November 29, 2004, 11:33 AM
That did not come from the Wall Street Journal. It comes from FOX news.

Look more carefully. "Fox News" is the headline of the article. They sure are clever at the WSJ! :D

November 29, 2004, 01:43 PM
Um, yeah. None of the smilies are sufficient to convey the embarrasment.

I did only point out that it was from FOX (mistakenly) because there was a joke there. A joke that the WSJ were way ahead of me on. Feel stupid right now.

November 29, 2004, 02:51 PM
Arguments about allowing immigration aside, I welcome anyone from the UK or Australia who wants to get out of there, move to the US and help the pro-gun cause.
For that matter, any pro-gun, law abiding person from just about any anti-gun UN-bullied country is welcome.

November 29, 2004, 04:18 PM
"Thus Goodness is not about doing good but affecting it, and about telling moral inferiors what they may or may not enjoy."

This is always what it comes down to in every part of the globe.

I grew up in Wyoming and we raised Quarter Horses. Horses and gopher holes and prairie dog mounds don't mix. I spent many happy hours as a child with .22 helping to keep the rodent numbers down.

Now, would my actions have more "moral" if I had disliked potting those flea bitten dogs?

Hopefully, the foxes will begin to molest suburban pets and children.

November 29, 2004, 04:39 PM
Ginger -

I doubt the abolition of hunting with hounds will make much difference to fox numbers, the slack will be taken up by shooting and possibly increased roadkill.

The Burns report suggested that around 21-25,000 foxes were hunted with hounds each year.

A PDF file I have just pulled off DEFRA's (Depart for Rural Affairs) website suggests that of a study of 864 dead foxes in the UK 0.6% had old gunshot wounds, so that calls into question the argument that shooting leads to wounding more often than death. That issue may arise when farmers out with shotguns and birdshot take shots at foxes at too long a range or the suchlike.

You guys can tell me more, but when the average weight of a male fox in the UK is around 15lbs, use of a decent calibre and a reasonable hit should mean lights out right?

November 29, 2004, 07:06 PM
.22-250 would be thought adequate for foxes. The problem arises when .22LR or 12-gauge is used instead. I doubt many farmers would get permission for anything more powerful than these. Plus they would have to get a waiver from the general prohibition on softpoints and hollowpoints (even the projectiles are controlled items now)

November 29, 2004, 09:02 PM
I used to belong to a hunt club, and in 42 some-odd years they only did away with three foxes. England is loosing it's collective mind :banghead:

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