when to disclose that you're carrying?


PDA






Ukraine Train
November 28, 2004, 09:19 PM
I was just in line in a Subway next to an officer. I drive an ex-police car that still has the push bumper and spot lights on it and I was afraid that she might think I'm off duty LEO and ask me about it or just enquire about the car in general, ie. small talk, not official police type stuff. Would I have to tell her before answering any question that I'm carrying? It was right by the counter too so the Subway employees would have overheard it.

If you enjoyed reading about "when to disclose that you're carrying?" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!
P95Carry
November 28, 2004, 09:56 PM
Unless your state laws say you must give this information if stopped by an LEO ( I mean apprehended as in traffic stop etc) then ... ''concealed - is concealed'' - Yeah? :)

Ukraine Train
November 28, 2004, 10:02 PM
Michigan law states "An individual licensed under this act to carry a concealed pistol and who is carrying a concealed pistol and who is stopped by a peace officer shall immediately disclose to the peace officer that he or she is carrying a pistol concealed upon his or her person or in his or her vehicle."

I guess the definition of "stopped" needs to be defined. Does this mean only in a vehicle or anywhere?

victory
November 28, 2004, 10:07 PM
My car probably looks a lot like yours, minus the pushbar, but accentuated by the fact that it has a blue LED dashlight for EMS responce.

A couple times cops have made the mistake, asking what agency i work for. I correct them and we usually continue to BS for a few minutes. I don't feel that they need to be informed if i'm carrying

Telling an officer you're carrying during a traffic stop is different because untill the stop is over you are in their custody.

Hawkmoon
November 28, 2004, 10:10 PM
You really need to read the text of the law for YOUR state but, in general, it's probably safe to assume that social banter while standing in line at the Subway does not require disclosure.

P95Carry
November 28, 2004, 10:18 PM
You guys beat me to it! I agree - social banter (BS!) would not IMO count at all - compared with an actual stop per se.

alan
November 28, 2004, 10:37 PM
The folowing is attributed, possibly incorrectly, to President Lincoln:

"most people sound a lot smarter with their mouths shut, than with their mouths open".

enough said?

El Rojo
November 28, 2004, 11:24 PM
Another vote for not saying anything unless the officer asked. If I were an officer and suddenly the guy next to me in line at Subway says, "I need to inform you that I am carrying a concealed weapon." I would have to consider two things. First, nice for you, keep it that way or second, is that a threat?

Dog
November 28, 2004, 11:38 PM
I think if they asked for ID that would be the time to inform them otherwise concealed is concealed.

Zach S
November 29, 2004, 07:55 AM
The back of my permission slip says "It is unlawful to carry a concealed handgun without this permit and valid identification in your possesion or to fail to disclose to any law enforcement officer that you are carrying a concealed handgun."

Uh, yeah, I'm gonna tell every LEO I see that I'm strapped...

I dont bother telling them when we're just BSing about my 9C1 or making small talk while waiting in line at a gas station.

Dbl0Kevin
November 29, 2004, 04:11 PM
Unless the officer is questioning you in regards to a suspected offense you don't have to notify. A "stop" would mean if you were a suspicious person and the officer made contact with you to investigate not simply making small talk in line at a store. Police are people too and you aren't automatically under investigation when one makes a comment to you. ;)

Ktulu
November 29, 2004, 04:29 PM
"An individual licensed under this act to carry a concealed pistol and who is carrying a concealed pistol and who is stopped by a peace officer shall immediately disclose to the peace officer that he or she is carrying a pistol concealed upon his or her person or in his or her vehicle."

I've been told that if you are a passenger in a car that is stopped you are required to disclose.


Hoping to add to the thread not highjack it...

If you're carrying in a area where you cannot lawfully carry, a school for example, and you are detained by a police officer to answer some questions to an incident you witnessed. Are you required to disclose? You would be incriminating yourself in a crime. Could this law be in violation of the 5th amendment if it is later found that you were carrying and charged with the crime of not disclosing?

Dbl0Kevin
November 29, 2004, 05:43 PM
If you're carrying in a area where you cannot lawfully carry, a school for example, and you are detained by a police officer to answer some questions to an incident you witnessed. Are you required to disclose? You would be incriminating yourself in a crime. Could this law be in violation of the 5th amendment if it is later found that you were carrying and charged with the crime of not disclosing?

If someone did that, not only do they deserve to be arrested, but they belong in the stupid criminal files along with the guy who when pulled over blurts out "I don't know nothing about the stuff in the trunk" when there's 5 kilos of coke back there. :uhoh:

spacemanspiff
November 29, 2004, 06:28 PM
no no no no...you're all wrong. R O N G wrong.
waht you should have done once you saw the LEO is pull your concealing garment over the gun to reveal it and yell in a clear voice "i have a gun!"

:evil:

musher
November 29, 2004, 06:55 PM
ummm, Spiff you should really give the whole answer if you're going to try to answer the question.

After following your advice, the proper next step is to take the gun out of the holster and hold it up so the peace officer can take it into custody for safekeeping until the conversation is over, should they so desire.

Dbl0Kevin
November 29, 2004, 06:57 PM
After following your advice, the proper next step is to take the gun out of the holster and hold it up so the peace officer can take it into custody for safekeeping until the conversation is over, should they so desire.

No you're BOTH wrong. The CORRECT way is to point the barrel at the officer so that he can look down it to make sure that it is unloaded. Geez I gotta tell you guys everything!!! :neener:

spacemanspiff
November 29, 2004, 07:11 PM
After following your advice, the proper next step is to take the gun out of the holster and hold it up so the peace officer can take it into custody for safekeeping until the conversation is over, should they so desire.
yeah silly me, what musher said, and then after the LEO secures your weapon, repeat step 1 and 2 with the BUG in your back pocket.
then repeat again with the BUG on your ankle.

only the truly demented would have a 3rd BUG to disclose. :what:

in the event that you are carrying two identical pistols on your right and left hips, you must draw both weapons out quickdraw style, twirl them around your finger, and present them butts forward to the LEO, after taking a bow and acknowledging the round of applause from the bystanders.

alan
November 29, 2004, 07:22 PM
Ktulu Quote:
"An individual licensed under this act to carry a concealed pistol and who is carrying a concealed pistol and who is stopped by a peace officer shall immediately disclose to the peace officer that he or she is carrying a pistol concealed upon his or her person or in his or her vehicle."



I've been told that if you are a passenger in a car that is stopped you are required to disclose.


Hoping to add to the thread not highjack it...

If you're carrying in a area where you cannot lawfully carry, a school for example, and you are detained by a police officer to answer some questions to an incident you witnessed. Are you required to disclose? You would be incriminating yourself in a crime. Could this law be in violation of the 5th amendment if it is later found that you were carrying and charged with the crime of not disclosing?

According to USSC in Haynes v. U.S., 1968, criminals enjoy 5th Amendment protection. Regarding those who are essentialy law abiding, the answer is perhaps less than clear.

CAS700850
December 1, 2004, 01:21 PM
Common sense here, folks. If you're standing on a street corner, an LEO comes up nest to you and comments "Boy, it sure got cold quick, didn't it?", do you really think you need to inform him or her you are armed. That would probably do nothing more than get you a hassel, if not something a little more aggressive. At the same time, if you are in a vehicle stopped for a traffic offense, you ought to tell before it gets discovered and turns a traffic incident to a "look down the barrel of the LEO's gun" incident.

Gordon Fink
December 2, 2004, 01:01 AM
I drive an ex-police car.…

Why?

~G. Fink

Ukraine Train
December 2, 2004, 01:18 AM
It's fast for a 2+ ton car, very roomy to move all my stuff to/from college, rear wheel drive (donuts:)), durable, I got a great deal on it, and it's just kinda cool to have.

This is it.
http://www.fabiens.net/albums/album29/PA120059.sized.jpg

Zach S
December 2, 2004, 07:54 PM
Why?

~G. Fink Why not? They're roomy, handle well, run good (well, mine doesnt, its an L99), and most are pretty cheap compared to the same civilian models.

Ukraine, have you changed the plugs and wires in that car yet? What a pain:banghead: I'm thinking about getting rid of mine instead of putting an LT1 in it since its such a PITA to work on comapred to my Fairmont.

cfabe
December 3, 2004, 01:58 AM
have you changed the plugs and wires in that car yet?

I live with ukraine train, and that's my white 9c1 behind his in the photo. He's hasn't done the wires yet, but it needs them. I did them in my car, it wasn't all that terrible compared to other cars I've worked on, but it probably is alot worse than a fairmont.

If you enjoyed reading about "when to disclose that you're carrying?" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!