Should I be satisfied?


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student
November 28, 2004, 11:23 PM
I took my walmart-special Remington 700 ADL 30-06 to the range this week. Put some winchester 150grn hunting ammo through it at 100 yrds. It has a weaver seek through mount (I like to be able to use irons at close range or as backup) with a cheapish simmons 3-9X40 scope (this rifle was a gift and I hadn't the money to cough up for a good scope). The stock is factory synthetic that I free floated the barrel and weighted the rear of the stock significantly by adding ~29 rnds of ammo to it. I also had adjusted the trigger release distance but not the weight or overtravel. Anyway, I got 3-4 rnd groups of about 1.5 up to 2 inches. I had a bench from which to shoot but no rest or bipod. Was using the 9X position and the crosshair seemed to be dancing over the bullseye. I would try to squeeze the trigger when the crosshairs rested in the center for a second or two.
I just read an article over at the sniper website (got there from a google search on bipods) stating that the 30-06 is quite less accurate than the 308 and that 1 moa (or a 2 inch at 200yrds) is about the best to expect from a 30-06 while the 308 can do .75 inch.
So if I get a bipod or better rest and since I just adjusted the trigger to a lower weight to break, and get a group of about 1 inch at 100yrds, am I maxed out on potential with this rifle/round? Should I bother to get a bipod if my accuracy potential is nearly maxed, or should I be thinking about a switch to 308.
I should state that I am no long distance shooting expert, don't think of myself as an awsome shooter, only have access to a 100yrd range, and currently am not planning any hunting with this or any other rifle.
Also, I have my rifle sighted in to shoot 3inches high and center at 100yrds having read that for this caliber it would be nearly point of aim at 200 yrds. Is this correct?
Thanks

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taliv
November 28, 2004, 11:33 PM
i'd be real surprised if remington hunting ammo averaged that well over a couple dozen rounds. in my experience, it's been "teh suq".

expect a lot better from your unmodified 700, after you get some decent ammo

mustanger98
November 28, 2004, 11:53 PM
Seems to me you got a decent rifle. A 700ADL is a 700ADL regardless of where you got it.

It has a weaver seek through mount (I like to be able to use irons at close range or as backup) with a cheapish simmons 3-9X40 scope

I've had good results with Simmons 3-9x32 and 3-9x40. It's nothing to sneeze at.

Anyway, I got 3-4 rnd groups of about 1.5 up to 2 inches. I had a bench from which to shoot but no rest or bipod.

You're talking about a hunting rifle here. (I know you said you're not planning on hunting, but this sounds like a good start on find out the true accuracy of a hunting type rifle.) Run 5rd strings and see how that groups, although, what really expands your group size is flyers as the barrel heats up. If you don't experience this, your rifle is better than average. However, my opinion is 1.5-2" groups are good.

Put some winchester 150grn hunting ammo through it at 100 yrds.

Try several different loads. Some rifles of the same make and model shoot some loads better than others.

I had a bench from which to shoot but no rest or bipod.

A bipod or sandbag either one would help steady it and take more of the human factor out while you work on seeing what the gun will do. Being that much steadier may reveal much better accuracy, or show you what the rifle won't do. It could go either way, but you'll have to work with it to find out.

Was using the 9X position and the crosshair seemed to be dancing over the bullseye. I would try to squeeze the trigger when the crosshairs rested in the center for a second or two.

Back your scope's power down to 4X or 5X. You'll probably have a better picture to deal with than at 9X.

I also had adjusted the trigger release distance but not the weight or overtravel.

You may well have to lighten the trigger some, depending on what it is now. A heavy trigger can have you all over your target and throw your shot off. BTDT. Remington puts "lawyer-proof" heavy triggers on there.

As for are you maxed out on accuracy with this rifle vs. what you've read is possible with .308, like I said, you'll just have to work with it more to find out.

Also, I have my rifle sighted in to shoot 3inches high and center at 100yrds having read that for this caliber it would be nearly point of aim at 200 yrds. Is this correct?

Your zero sounds pretty close, but my reading says 4" high at 100yds is 0 at 200yds. But, that depends on the load. You have to know the projectile weight and speed to be sure and to do that, you gotta handload.

cracked butt
November 28, 2004, 11:57 PM
I just read an article over at the sniper website (got there from a google search on bipods) stating that the 30-06 is quite less accurate than the 308 and that 1 moa (or a 2 inch at 200yrds) is about the best to expect from a 30-06 while the 308 can do .75 inch.

1.5-2 inch groups with a remington adl is about par for the course, and probably isn't all that bad if you are shooting off an unsteady rest.

You aren't going to see much difference in accuracy in a .308 or 30-06 rifle until you are shooting a highly tuned and much more expensive rifle.

JohnKSa
November 29, 2004, 12:01 AM
Try some different ammo.

I've got one sub-moa rifle that groups one particular brand at about 6-7" at 100 yards...

Ammo CAN make a difference.

lycanthrope
November 29, 2004, 12:55 AM
You guys have some low expectations.....


I've never shot a Remmy that wouldn't hold 1MOA or better with the right ammo. With a floated barrel such as yours the groups you are posting aren't acceptable. Not by a long shot.

Get some good sandbags and then shoot some more. Try differing brands of ammo as well as bullet weights. Make sure you aren't canting the scope as this has a BIG effect on the high mounts. Just get targets that have lines on them and then use a level to level the lines so you can just align the crosshairs on them when you shoot. You can get 1MOA or less, I darn near promise.

The '06 is inherently less accurate than the .308, but that in no way means you can't make any of them shoot 1MOA or better. It simply means that with all things being equal the majority of .308's will post a small edge. My '06 shoots .5MOA with the right loads.

rbernie
November 29, 2004, 01:00 AM
The suggestion to try different ammo is a good one. I've recently been thru a process of trying to find a favorite diet for a new2me rifle. I found that I could get 5" patterns or 1" groups from the same rifle on the same day under the same conditions from the same rest - all by switching the brand/weight of factory ammo that I was shooting.

By the way - I dunno if I would take the 30-06 vs. 308 accuracy comment too seriously. I'm certainly no expert, but I've seen no real data that would substantiate that the 30-06 is INHERENTLY less accurate than the 308 or any other round.

Jim Watson
November 29, 2004, 01:11 AM
To get best mechanical accuracy, you have to have a steady rest. Jerking the trigger as the sights wobble won't do it.

The only reason a .308 MIGHT be more accurate than a .30-06 is because it is a current service cartridge and gets a lot of development at taxpayer expense. My old Winchester M70 '06 Target does real well, thank you. My long range shooting is limited by my inexperience in judging the wind, not rifle performance.

Be not dismayed, get steady, a sandbag rest is better than a bipod but the 'pod will do if you are going to hunt or target shoot off of it. Try different ammo; Remington or Federal hunting loads MIGHT do better than Winchester. When you have worked on technique a bit, treat yourself to some match ammo; I think Federal still makes .30-06 match.

lycanthrope
November 29, 2004, 04:01 AM
I suppose "inherently" is a poor term to use. I think we all agree that in most instances of Minute of Animal accuracy it comes down to the indian and not the arrow.....

The .308 cartridge tends to be a more "efficient" cartridge (although not as versatile as the '06 due to it's inability to handle a wider range of bullet weights). When one has an efficient cartridge this will make burn rates smoother and more consistent which, all things being equal, will help accuracy. This is why today's short mags can reach the old belted magnum velocities less power and recoil. More importantly, it is why the 6PPC cartridge is favored in benchrest shooting versus the .244 remington. The 6PPC will be more accurate with all other variables being equal. This, however, does not mean that any other caliber cannot be worked into tight groups. My 7STW is very inefficient and an overbore from hades, but prints .25 MOA regularly due to a lot of load development on my part.

Art Eatman
November 29, 2004, 10:07 AM
Almost any rifle has some load that gives notably better group size than do other loads. Nothing unusual there.

My pet '06 has almost always given me five-shot groups inside one MOA if I do my part. 35 years ago, I could occasionally get inside one MOA with ten-shot groups. Last time I meddled around at 500 yards I got two four-shot four-inch groups, and one ten-shot string with two called flyers and a six-inch group. IOW, no flies on the old '06...

I've always handloaded for my centerfires, although I've found that some modern factory stuff is as accurate as my handloads. I'm proud of'em! Congrats to Federal! :D

So adjusting triggers, trying out different ammo...Just part of the game.

But in testing any rifle, I try to take my own "human factor" out of it as much as possible. That means a good benchrest and as many sandbags as are required for a really firm "set" for the rifle. No wiggle.

$0.02,

Art

ojibweindian
November 29, 2004, 10:39 AM
I wouldn't be at all satisfied. Your ADL should be able to do MOA, provided that you find the powder, case, primer, and bullet combination it prefers.

This means either spending time at the reloading bench or spending money at the cash register.

Also, what Art said. To do real accuracy testing on your rifle, you need to shoot from a sturdy benchrest; the idea is to remove as much as yourself from the equation as possible to properly guage your rifle's performance.

Finally, to be honest, 1.5" - 2.0" 100 yard groups from an essentially unsupported shooting position is not that bad.

student
November 29, 2004, 10:16 PM
Thanks everyone.
I will try to improve upon my previous results with confidence that it can be done. To be honest, this is the first rifle I have ever tried to push the accuracy issue with. Until now I have been content with 'in the black' shooting.

JohnKSa
November 29, 2004, 11:40 PM
Brands to try:

Federal
Hornady
IMO, these two brands are currently tied for first place in terms of accuracy. Hornady MIGHT have a small edge.

Black Hills (this stuff is really good--even the remanufactured stuff they sell)

Remember! Even good ammo may group poorly in your rifle if the rifle doesn't "like" it--it's a matter of the rifle's "preference" more than the quality of the ammo in some cases.

rbernie
November 29, 2004, 11:57 PM
Dunno about that - I have at least one rifle that loves the cheap Remington Cor-Lokt stuff, and another that prefers UMC FMJ. Sometimes there's just no accounting for taste... :)

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