ISO truth, WI murders


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ID_shooting
November 29, 2004, 02:09 PM
OK, after reading the report and VPC's comments:

http://graphics.jsonline.com/graphics/news/img/nov04/statement112304edits01.pdf

http://www.vpc.org/press/0411wisc.htm

We can assume that the rifle in question is indeed a Saiga and not an SKS (I am awaiting a phone call back from the WI DOJ verifying this), and the various VPC postings calling for more bans on SKSs, is there a way to force the antis to post a retraction, or at least have one of the counter sites post the truth and destroy VPC's cerdibility?


BTW, the AG office is posting info: http://www.doj.state.wi.us/

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Bubbles
November 29, 2004, 02:26 PM
...is there a way to force the antis to post a retraction...

You are kidding, right? Their arguments are based on the fact that John Q. Public - and in many cases John Q. Gunowner - neither knows nor cares that there is a difference between a Saiga and an SKS.

Standing Wolf
November 29, 2004, 04:09 PM
...is there a way to force the antis to post a retraction, or at least have one of the counter sites post the truth and destroy VPC's cerdibility?

Not to worry, eh? The aptly named Violence Policy Center has had no credibility with intelligent people since it emerged from the swamps of irrationality.

igor
November 29, 2004, 06:11 PM
FWIW, my Saiga's serial# has a similar beginning as Vang's. H03xxxxxxxx...

Art Eatman
November 29, 2004, 06:48 PM
Do you think the VPC gives a rat's patoot about the difference? They're black, they're semi-auto and they're evil and bad-nasty and they'll lead you to violence, not to mention mopery with intent to gawk.

Bad, bad, bad EBR!

Art

Harry Tuttle
November 29, 2004, 07:40 PM
sks are brown wood stocked
http://www.gunboards.com/forums/uploaded/spriteman65/20043117415_1952%20laminate%20SKS%201.jpg

saiga hunters are brown or black:
http://kalashnikov.guns.ru/photos/10.jpg

Cacique500
November 29, 2004, 08:01 PM
I don't know...that one on the bottom sure looks eeevil... :scrutiny:

ID_shooting
November 29, 2004, 08:11 PM
I guess my beef is that a Saiga is a dedicted hunting rifle, no different than an auto-loading remmy or BAR. I will agree that an SKS is a MILSPEC and a war rifle. Makes no real difference, but I would like them to at least be accurate in thier ramblings.

ReadyontheRight
November 29, 2004, 08:51 PM
They want to take away every gun but the over and under shotgun.

This is what they mean when they say "I believe in the second amendment" and "We're not going to take away your gun".

nico
November 29, 2004, 10:56 PM
Such an action would not require Congressional approval.
so they want him to circumvent that pesky "checks and balances" thing.

. . .the SKS and many other assault weapons that easily slipped through the old law's loopholes
so the SKS was designed to slip through a "loophole" in a law that was written over 50 years after the gun was invented and in a different country than its origin. riiiiight.

By the way, did anyone else notice the semantics of the article? There seems to be an effort to change "assault weapon" to "assault rifle." Hasn't there been a dictionary definition for "assault rifle" for a long time that defines it as a select fire rifle?

edit: is the VPC writing for the American Heritage Dictionary now?
assault rifle: n. Any of various automatic or semiautomatic rifles designed for individual use in combat.

Desertdog
November 29, 2004, 10:58 PM
I haven't been hunting in years so I am not upto date on hunting gun laws.
As I remember, there was a limit of 3 shells in a shot gun and I assume it is the same now.
Is there a limit on the number of shells when hunting other game? If there is, then there should not be any difference in fire power between a SKS and a Remington semi-auto. In fact, the Remmy should be able to stand up to the SKS, espicially at longer range.
From reading the Police report most of the GGs were unarmed.

nico
November 29, 2004, 11:01 PM
It differs from state to state, but in Maryland, you're limited to 8 (i think) rounds for deer and 3 for birds. There's no requirement for physically limiting the magazine to that size, you just can't get caught with more than the maximum number of rounds. ie: if you have a 10 round magazine, you can only put 8 rounds in it. I guess here there isn't really a need for a hunting plug in shotguns.

meathammer
November 30, 2004, 01:34 PM
Desertdog,

Wisconsin has no magazine limits for deer hunting. Birds/Waterfowl regulations are similar to other states, plug in tube, 3 shells max.


--meathammer

Art Eatman
December 1, 2004, 09:25 AM
Some states do have 5-round limits, which is where the special 5-round clips for Garands originated. Just guessing, this probably goes back to the early years of the 20th century when game laws were first being developed. Such rifles as the Springfield and Mauser were very popular, and the early laws sorta tied in with customary usage. Probably, western states aren't so limited, given the numbers of lever action rifles in use there.

Federal law on migratory birds creates the 3-rounds limits on shotguns. Non-migratory: Quail hunting, e.g., no plug needed; no limit on capacity.

Art

Leatherneck
December 1, 2004, 10:05 AM
I guess here there isn't really a need for a hunting plug in shotguns. Slightly OT, but please don't get caught hunting migratory waterfowl with a shottie that isn't plugged for no more than three rounds-it's against fed law.

Back to the thread on rifles...

TC
TFL Survivor

sturmruger
December 1, 2004, 11:57 AM
I read the whole complaint and have to say I am shocked at how brazen this guy was! :fire: I think they have him dead to rights. I can't see how he can get out or prison time. The WI DOJ website has several relavent docs that are worth checking out.

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