How to deal with a burglary, UK style


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nwmanitou
December 1, 2004, 10:48 AM
This article makes me want to puke. Talk about doing the SNiVeL :barf: :banghead:
When individuals are confronted by intruders there are some actions they should follow. Direct contact should be avoided whenever possible. If unavoidable, the victim should adopt a state of active passivity. In most cases the best form of defence is always avoidance. If this isn’t possible, act passively, be careful what you say or do and give up valuables without a struggle. This allows the victim to take charge of the situation, without the intruder’s awareness, through subtle and non-confrontational means. People can cooperate but initiate nothing. By doing nothing there is no chance of inadvertently initiating violence by saying something such as "Please don’t hurt me". So what do you do when your home is burgled? (http://news.scotsman.com/uk.cfm?id=1377062004)

For those of you who don't know what the snivel is, here are the instructions: The SNiVeL (http://www.handguncontrolinc.org/snivel.htm)

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Standing Wolf
December 1, 2004, 11:44 AM
...act passively, be careful what you say or do and give up valuables without a struggle. This allows the victim to take charge of the situation, without the intruder’s awareness, through subtle and non-confrontational means.

I have a better idea: shoot the parasites.

Zedicus
December 1, 2004, 11:56 AM
Better Idea.

Sneak up behind the vermin, tell them you called 1911, turn a light on, When the vermin turns around say "Say Hello to my Little Friend" & aim directly at them, tell them not to even think about moving, & call the cops on your cell's handsfree. :D

if they move, aim anywhere that will stop them & squeze the trigger.

Can also be done with any other pistol or a AR or .12 gage...

R.H. Lee
December 1, 2004, 12:04 PM
When the vermin turns around say "Say Hello to my Little Friend" Be sure to say that in several different languages, so you demonstrate that you are respectful of his cultural diversity. :p

agricola
December 1, 2004, 12:10 PM
bad article, largely because of the media's inability to admit fault over the Martin case:

As a law-abiding individual confronted by an intruder in your home you face a catch-22. If you attack the burglar, or react in an "over the top" manner, as was recently illustrated in the case of Tony Martin who shot intruders in his Norfolk farmhouse, you will inevitably end up on the receiving end of a prison sentence that will far outstrip that imposed on the intruder in your own home. This situation has resulted in a lack of belief in the law among the public or rather a belief that the law isn’t exactly on your side when your home is broken into.

RavenVT100
December 1, 2004, 12:10 PM
...act passively, be careful what you say or do and give up valuables without a struggle. This allows the victim to take charge of the situation, without the intruder’s awareness, through subtle and non-confrontational means.

And if these "valuables" include a child?

Dbl0Kevin
December 1, 2004, 12:41 PM
And if these "valuables" include a child?

Well obviously you can always have another kid. There's no need to get violent over it. :rolleyes:

JohnMc
December 1, 2004, 12:53 PM
This kills me:although not entirely excusing over-retaliation from homeowners When somebody breaks into another's home, they have also broken the coven under which civilized people live together. Their lives are forfit.
Over-retaliation would be what???

nonquixote
December 1, 2004, 12:54 PM
act passively, be careful what you say or do and give up valuables without a struggle. This allows the victim to take charge of the situation, without the intruder’s awareness, through subtle and non-confrontational means. People can cooperate but initiate nothing.
I love how they portray rolling over and playing dead as taking charge of the situation. People should be advised though that they can take further control of the situation by bundling up their money and valuables and dropping them off at the nice burglars doorstep.

Nonq

mhdishere
December 1, 2004, 12:56 PM
Sometimes the perpetrator of a burglary is even more terrified than the victim

So I'm supposed to feel sorry for a person who breaks into my home, armed, with intent to rob me or worse, because he's scared? News flash, you'd have no cause to be scared if you weren't in my house.

victim should adopt a state of active passivity

Huh? Does anyone know what that means?

This allows the victim to take charge of the situation, without the intruder’s awareness, through subtle and non-confrontational means

So the perp comes into my home, takes what he wants, and leaves unmolested, but I've "taken charge of the situation"? How is that?

I've got a better idea, point home-defense weapon at perp and tell him that if he refrains from moving a muscle he's got a good chance of surviving until the police arrive.

And this is the same country that gave the world Winston Churchill, that fought the Battle of Britain, that endured the Blitz. The older I get the more convinced I am that the world has gone mad.

Jubei
December 1, 2004, 01:36 PM
I'm suprised the article didn't instruct women to voluntarily disrobe so not to risk damage to their clothing if the perpetrator was also a rapist.

I wonder if you should say "Thank you" as the choad-monkey that just robbed you exits unmolested from your house.

And this from a group of people that'll start a riot over a soccer match.

dumba$$es

Jubei

trapperjohn
December 1, 2004, 02:29 PM
bad article, largely because of the media's inability to admit fault over the Martin case:

Should have read a little closer, the author is not a Journalist, rather he is a Phd Holding Criminal Psychologist.

Andrew Rothman
December 1, 2004, 02:46 PM
In a situation involving housebreaking it is also important to remember that many common burglars are adolescents, most likely starting out on the first rung of the criminal ladder...

...so the most important thing is to make sure that their first criminal enterprise is as stress-free and successful as possible. This will encourage them to further their criminal careers and move on to more violent and destructive behavior.

Idjits.

big poppa
December 1, 2004, 02:50 PM
why do you guys read these articles? all they do is agravate you, get you worked up.you can,t help those people,let them suffer in their own stupidity,it seem,s in england the inmates are running the asylum. :barf:

Cosmoline
December 1, 2004, 02:53 PM
Once again I'm very happy I live in Alaska.

tuna
December 1, 2004, 03:00 PM
Best advice I've heard is: "Shoot till he's down for good, watch the last part of "Old Yeller" to get up a good cry - then call for ambulance FIRST and request the police as an afterthought". The point is to seem genuinely concerned about the scumbag (hence the ambulance first) and that you are truly upset about harming the poor indivudual. Of course, thinking about cleaning the carpet may be used in place of the movie...

HowardC
December 1, 2004, 03:16 PM
...the hours of labor and hard work scrubbing the miscreant's blood out of your carpet and off the walls. Remember to wear the proper protective equipment to prevent picking up the various diseases that may be present.

What a crock of bovine excrement, typical of the psychology profession.

-Howard

OOPs, failed to read all of Tuna's post. Sorry.

Leatherneck
December 1, 2004, 04:03 PM
he is a Phd Holding Criminal Psychologist Is that a felony in UK?

:neener:

TC
TFL Survivor

F4GIB
December 1, 2004, 04:14 PM
I sure wish Agricola would explain how it is that we are all missing the hidden meaning of the original article. Isn't an offensive stare as effective a defensive tool as a Gerber multitool? Just drive them out with your stiff upper lip, old boy!

agricola
December 1, 2004, 04:33 PM
F4GIB,

The "hidden meaning" is basically, since the media got the Martin case so wrong (they only used the defence case, when Martin was convicted they either could own up, or continue along the "miscarriage of justice" line, they chose the latter), they have peddled the myth that if you defend yourself, you go to jail for more than the burglar / attacker does.

What the media should say (backed by the law and by events), is that you have the right to defend yourself and your family in your home. That they do not says an awful lot about them.

Despite trapperjohns comments, this article will have gone through the editorial process and so represents the Scotsman

victory
December 1, 2004, 06:08 PM
If unavoidable, the victim should adopt a state of active passivity.

I prefer a state of passive aggressiveness. Say, "No, please don't hurt me" as i unload into the perp

Brick
December 1, 2004, 06:25 PM
...so the most important thing is to make sure that their first criminal enterprise is as stress-free and successful as possible. This will encourage them to further their criminal careers and move on to more violent and destructive behavior.



Exactly what I was going to say.

Firethorn
December 1, 2004, 06:59 PM
Two to COM, one to the head. Repeat as necessary.

CGofMP
December 1, 2004, 10:54 PM
Guys easy......

EASY!

Please remember that our x-bretheren since 1776 still had not learned about how real life works as late as 1938.... Seems they still have not learned how to stand up to violent individuals or groups.

Remember a chap named Neville Chamberlaine? "Peace in our time...."
As the Brits attempted to appease a criminal on a national level....
I reference this (http://home.sandiego.edu/~jnoga/munich.html)

http://home.sandiego.edu/~jnoga/chamberlain2thumb.jpg

Does the original article posted in this thread sound at ALL like the following from NC himself?
"
" The real triumph is that it has shown that representatives of four great Powers can find it possible to agree on a way of carrying out a difficult and delicate operation by discussion instead of by force of arms, and thereby they have averted a catastrophe which would have ended civilisation as we have known it. The relief that our escape from this great peril of war has, I think, everywhere been mingled in this country with a profound feeling of sympathy.

"

Cosmoline
December 1, 2004, 11:05 PM
The sad part is, most Brits know they're being fed a load of bravo sierra by the socialist elite that runs the nation. But after half a century of getting benefits doled out by a manipulative, maternalistic tyranny, they no longer have the will to fight back. On top of this, they are fed a daily dose of propaganda that the US is a battleground full of gun-toting loons and that all will be well if they simply follow the accepted dogma. Citizens are reduced to civilians and told not to fight back. Accept the guiding hand of the mother state to protect you and punish you. You alone are nothing. The community is everything. Don't be like those nasty Americans and try to stand up for yourself or fight back.

ProactiveReactionary
December 1, 2004, 11:22 PM
i dont play nice with trespassers and burglars. you'll be lucky if you get to leave the same way you came in.

our neighbors house was broken into some years ago and they were pretty brazen about it, middle of the day, broke the window in the back door and then walked in and too a bunch of stuff out including her kids xmas presents.

i dont take chances in my neighborhood, kill first, ask questions later.

legally it might not sound like a good argument but if you break into my house there are two things i'm not sure of. 1) are you armed? i dont know and i dont want to find out the hard way 2) WHY are you in my house? wanna steal my TV or rape my wife? again, i dont wanna find out the hard way so i'm prone to put a bullet in you as soon as i see you and then call the meat wagon to pick up your worthless corpse.


this whole notion of calling the cops and waiting for them to protect you and yours is bull????. we have called the cops and it takes them quite a while to show up, long enough for you to get killed, your wife raped and your valuables stolen. maybe the reason for calling them was different but i remember one occasion where it took them an hour to show up. when every second counts a home owner does not have 20-30 minutes. so a person IMO has two choices, deal with the burglar in a swift and decisive manner and pay the price later (i dont feel the homeowner should be faulted for their actions based on two things that are unknown to them) or you can bend over and take it like a woman and let the burglar do what they want because you're afraid you'll get locked up for defending yourself, your wife and your property and you stand the chance of being killed.

being passive is NOT a guarantee of staying alive. just you seeing them and being able to indentify them later is usually cause enough for them to put a bullet in your head.

Pilgrim
December 2, 2004, 12:53 AM
• Dr Ian Stephen is an Honorary Lecturer (Forensic Psychology) at Glasgow Caledonian University and has worked in a number of prisons with long-term prisoners and young offenders. He was a consultant to forensic psychology television series Cracker.

I suppose Dr. Stephen got his start counseling baby seals.

Pilgrim

JPM70535
December 2, 2004, 02:29 AM
As to the sheer stupidity involved in complying with the instructions presented to the masses as the proper response to a Miscreant intent on depriving them of their property, or worse, it just boggles the mind.Most THR
members have the right mindset, shoot first , be sure the poor soul has stopped moving, (Dead Men have a really hard time testifying in court) then call the Para Medics, and the Police in that order. Since you will have an unknown wait for the Police, the magnitude of what you have had to do will weigh heavily on your mind, so you better call your Doctor as you feel a nervous breakdown coming on.

The idea that calling 911 will instantly bring hoards of uniformed LEOs to the rescue has as much validity as "The Check is in the Mail" After a carear in Law Enforcement, I can count on the fingers of one hand, the number of times I was close enough to a call to actually prevent the crime reported. I can't imagine our unarmed comrads on the other side of the pond rushing headlong into an unknown situation without multiple backups. Perhaps that accounts for the suggestion that the victims do all in their power to speed up the burglars visit, (filling out a Burglary already occurred report is so much simpler than a Homicide already occurred)

Any individual who decides to enrich himself at my expense will, unless he is very lucky and my Home Defence Weapon misfires or I run out of ammo engaging mutiple individuals, shortly after entering find himself taking what we call A DIRT NAP!

Art Eatman
December 2, 2004, 08:39 AM
agricola says, "...you have the right to defend yourself and your family in your home."

Okay. Fine. With what?

I'm 70 years old. I have low-level arthritis (or some other -itis) in both shoulders. No disk between the lowest verterbrae. IOW, I'm somewhat limited in mobility. Not bad, but somewhat. I ain't into karate. I assume I have equal protections under the law, as with those who are younger and healthier.

What's reasonably readily available under English law? (Unarmed combat is out of the question. Clubs and knives are less likely to be useful to one in my physical condition.)

Self-defense action: If one or more miscreants enter my (presumed) London house in my presence, with obvious intent to do harm to me if I don't cooperate, what limits, if any, are there?

Overall personal view of safety in the home: Georgia passed what's been called the "make my day" law. Law, duly passed by the legislature and signed by the governor. Simplest put, it is your right to shoot a burglar. Away from the idiotic world of "drug deals gone bad" and all that, the law seems to be working as a deterrent to home invasions*. Seems to me that functioning as a deterrent is the intent of criminal law in the first place, is it not?

Art

*Entry into an occupied residence by an armed burglar is an invasion. Entry by a group is not a prerequisite to the definition of the term, common usage aside.

Battlespace
December 2, 2004, 10:15 AM
It looks like the Brits need to start the "shoot, shovel and forget" used by some ranchers for protected predators.

big poppa
December 2, 2004, 05:12 PM
better yet let them dig the hole first!

The_Antibubba
December 3, 2004, 04:18 AM
I mean, don't sheep bleat or struggle when you attack them? This is just...just...

:barf:

Zedicus
December 3, 2004, 11:14 AM
I mean, don't sheep bleat or struggle when you attack them? This is just...just...:barf:
Try living here, Even more Disgusting to see this kind of policy up front & be told you have to do the same or face prison if you dare injure the burglar.... :banghead: :barf:

Igloodude
December 3, 2004, 12:04 PM
I am not going to shoot a burglar because he intends to steal from me. I am going to shoot a burglar because it is reasonable to assume that he has entered knowing that I am at home, therefore that he is prepared to do great harm to me in order to successfully steal things from me.

I read in several places that the percentages of burglaries that are "hot" (i.e entering into an occupied home) is around 50% in the UK against under 10% here in the US. I would presume that at least 40% of burglars try to avoid occupants who are #1 probably armed and #2 will get the benefit of the doubt by the police when using those firearms.

Don Gwinn
December 3, 2004, 01:45 PM
I just keep my most valuable stuff on the front porch. Not only does this count as taking charge of the situation (action beats reaction, after all) but it obviates the need for burglars to rouse me out of a warm bed in order to rifle through my possessions.

Everybody's happy. I think.

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