MA acts - criminals can no longer get guns!!


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BB62
December 1, 2004, 12:08 PM
I don't know about you, but the next time I go to Massachusetts, I sure will feel a lot more comfortable:

http://tinyurl.com/6f2wv

The absolute BEST line is: "This (system) enables us to make sure that the only people bearing arms in the commonwealth have the right to bear arms".

Spare me, please.


BB62

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Standing Wolf
December 1, 2004, 12:43 PM
...fingerprints and photographs will be taken electronically and stored in the statewide system. The license will be produced by the state's Criminal History Systems Board...

You couldn't pay me to live in Taxachussets, which apparently wants to be the next East Germany.

Old Partner
December 1, 2004, 01:16 PM
The only problem I see is how are they going to hook up the terminals in all of the crack houses, back alleys and street corners so all of the poor misguided goblins can be checked out properly. If they don't pass, they will then know that they have to go to the police station and turn their guns in. But, if they don't have access to this wonderfull technology, they will just have to keep on carrying their guns without knowing any better. That is soooo unfair!!!

:neener:

BB62
December 1, 2004, 02:20 PM
I checked the GOAL website, and found that unfortunately there is no direct e-mail to the Executive Director, nor the board.

If I were with them I would want to be all over the official's comment. I would also be all over GOAL's ex. director's comment: "We don't support licensing anyway, but it's a fact of life here in Massachusetts" too!.

Does anyone know anyone with GOAL? I'd like to drop a line or three.


BB62

FPrice
December 1, 2004, 02:34 PM
"Does anyone know anyone with GOAL? I'd like to drop a line or three."

I do know several people at GOAL and am fairly confident that, given the political climate here, the guy's statement is unfortunately accurate.

If you want to email GOAL there is a little email link at the top right of the opening page at the GOAL website that will give you addresses to various offices at GOAL. You can try that.

edited to add:

This is the email link.

http://www.goal.org/Misc/emailus.htm

Third_Rail
December 1, 2004, 02:40 PM
Great....


I could live with being fingerprinted, but being put into the statewide DB is too far.


Nice.

KRAUTGUNNER
December 1, 2004, 02:48 PM
You couldn't pay me to live in Taxachussets, which apparently wants to be the next East Germany.

At least East Germany knew no such obscenities like same-sex marriages! :banghead:

Augustwest
December 1, 2004, 03:02 PM
At least East Germany knew no such obscenities like same-sex marriages!

Hmmmmmmm, let's see.

Stasi...Same-sex marriage. Stasi...Same-sex marriage.

Yeah, they're about equally oppressive.

:rolleyes:

RavenVT100
December 1, 2004, 03:21 PM
I really don't give a hoot who gets married to whom. It doesn't affect me at all. I just want the state to keep its sticky little hands off of my property, and quit trying to regulate everything out of existence.

Criminals will always have access to whatever they want; the only limiting factor in their case is cost. And when it comes to handguns, from a purely monetary standpoint it is far, far cheaper for them to buy handguns from an illegal market. There is no incentive whatsoever (even disregarding the guarantee that a person with priors will be denied purchase) for anyone engaged in criminal activity to purchase a weapon through legal channels.

All that this regulation, licensing, and triple-checking of criminal background has accomplished is the guarantee that there is no cost incentive for criminals to even think of attempting to purchase weapons through legal means. It makes illegal weapons dealers more prosperous and acts as a deterrent for the legitimate ownership of firearms by the law-abiding. All that is really necessary is for a criminal background check to be completed at the point of sale. I would love to see anything indicating that these expensive and elaborate licensing schemes that some states employ WRT firearms have had any effect whatsoever on crime rates. I wouldn't count on it, though, because the CDC was unable to determine if the use of even the NICS check had an effect.

Your tax dollars at work, everyone.

BB62
December 1, 2004, 04:21 PM
I saw that link, but it was too generic for me. Do you have any suggestions as to how to contact the decision makers?

Referring to your post:
The "political climate" is just what I mean - in his and your statement there seems to be, IMHO, too much acceptance of that climate.

RKBA people, libertarians, and GOPers need to, IMO, undertake the same sort of relentless, time after time pounding (on the antis and those who support them legislatively) that DemocRATS are so well known for employing.

"We don't support licensing anyway, but it's a fact of life here in Massachusetts."

For the Ex. Director to make such a statement seems to me far too accepting of the status quo. If I were an anti I would be JUMPING FOR JOY knowing that he had spoken those words.

"This (system) enables us to make sure that the only people bearing arms in the commonwealth have the right to bear arms".

BULL. If I were GOAL, I would be throwing the words above into the face of any and all media outlets and elected representatives sympathetic to my cause - and my cause would not be to bemoan the idiocy imposed upon me.

I know a Pink Pistol here in Ohio - and not that she is representative, good or bad of the PPs, but she is one GREAT activist and out of the box thinker. Maybe GOAL ought to be finding such people up their way.


BB62

Coronach
December 1, 2004, 04:33 PM
Same-sex marriage is not germane to this topic. Everyone stop chasing the red herring. ;)

As an aside, there are also a lot of Pink Pistols members here. Let's be polite to our fellow board members, and welcoming of all those who support RKBA.

Clear?

Coronach

FPrice
December 1, 2004, 04:48 PM
"Referring to your post:
The "political climate" is just what I mean - in his and your statement there seems to be, IMHO, too much acceptance of that climate."

Sigh. It always amazes me that ALL the folks who could make a difference in this Commonwealth and who could force our officials to change the laws somehow choose to live in other places.

FYI this is the state that has elected Ted Kennedy something like 6 or 7 times, and his little "brother" John Kerry another 3-4 times. Liberalism has taken root like a terminal illness and does not respond to any remedy. Even our Republican Governor is anti-assault weapon like several other prominent Republicans.

Pro-gun people have not "accepted" the climate but are fighting an uphill battle such as you cannot imagine! We are outnumbered yet continue to make some little progress here and there. This whole story may be part of the outgrowth of the reform of our CCW system which provided some relief to previous abuses but may have added one negative. The fact that we have any rights left is a tribute to those who are here and are fighting the good fight.

I am going to begin making a standing offer to anyone who does not think that we are doing enough to support our state (Commonwealth) RKBA. If you don't think we are doing a good job, move here and take over the effort and let's see what you can do.

jamz
December 1, 2004, 05:16 PM
You can look at this in a vacuum, or in an overall sense.

They made a change. Instead of paper based fingerprinting, et all, it's now electronic. We are all in a statewide database right now, as gun owners in MA. When you buy or sell, it gets recorded. Now, instead of waiting 6-8 weeks for the fingerprints to come back from the state police, it can be checked more or less immediately. This removes the wait for a license, and for the Gun Owner, it is a Good Thing, but it's in a Bad System, sort of like getting your color preference for your chains.

-James

BB62
December 1, 2004, 05:25 PM
I really do see where you are coming from, but there is too much "aid and comfort" in the Ex. Director's statement, and plenty of ammo in the official's statement.

I can only imagine your predicament, but dadgummit, an uphill battle never seems to have stopped certain aformentioned parties from any battle regardless.

As a conservative I have come to the conclusion that conservatives make poor rabble rousers. GOAL's website is very nice, but I don't see evidence of rabble rousing. I know it is easy for me and others to take potshots, but it is certainly constructive criticism, regardless of how seemingly unrealistic it may be to many.

Back to my question though - are there any names I can direct my comments to at GOAL?


Thanks,
BB62

FPrice
December 1, 2004, 05:39 PM
"Back to my question though - are there any names I can direct my comments to at GOAL?"

"Jim Wallace, executive director of the Gun Owners Action League..."

jimwallace@goal.org

would be a good start.

While rabble-rousing may be emotionally satisfying it is not filling and seldom beats good solid grass-roots legislative action which is where GOAL seems to do it's best.

BTW, no offense taken at your comments.

edited to add:
Before you get too upset over Wallace's comments, please review this thread about Larry Keane's reputed comment in the NYTs concerning the recent WI hunting shootings. Read his reply to someone's angry email.

http://thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=113645

Yojinbo
December 1, 2004, 06:19 PM
My people left MA in the 1800's. Move to Oklahoma where gun control is "hitting what you aim at".

Of course, you'll need some kind of job here. We don't have a lot of those at the moment...

-Yo

Headless Thompson Gunner
December 1, 2004, 07:00 PM
It's almost as though the authorities in MA don't want you to go through the mainstream channels to acquire your weapons.

Stickjockey
December 1, 2004, 09:31 PM
Anyone catch this?

"You hit the button. Before the customer leaves the store, the state knows they purchased that firearm," said Carl Ingrao, owner of Four Seasons Firearms in Woodburn.
:eek: :uhoh:

Benjamin
December 2, 2004, 01:29 AM
Before anyone else ruptures a vein over that line in the article....

MA already has state wide firearms registration


When any [lawful] purchase, sale, loan (etc, etc, etc) happens in MA, the participants fill out an FA-10 form, which is filed with the MA Firearms Records Bureau.

This practice is not new. The innovation is the use of an electronic filing method.

NEtracker
December 2, 2004, 11:14 AM
I'm going to have to run up to Four Seasons & see this new system..

BB62
December 2, 2004, 11:55 PM
Thanks for pointing that out - I assumed otherwise.

I think most people understand the new element of things (I'm guessing of course), but my point and others are the idiocy - not only of the statements but of the system itself.

NETracker - please report back!


Regards,
BB62

FPrice
December 3, 2004, 07:00 PM
Here is the latest on the GOAL website about this system:

http://www.goal.org/Alerts/mircs.html

GOAL Investigates MIRCS

The Massachusetts Instant Records Check System was unveiled this week. Although the project has been in development for more than two years, it was the first time that the public has actually been shown the system.

MIRCS ties together electronic transmission of firearms sales by Mass dealers, issuance of the new driver’s size licenses, and electronic backgrounds checks. It identifies licensed gun owners at the point of sale by digitally by digitally scanning the purchaser’s index fingerprint and matching that to the fingerprints that are already on file with the state.

GOAL has many questions concerning this system, including privacy concerns and budget questions. A more detailed analysis of the system and its true impact on the Commonwealth’s licensed gun owners will be coming in the future.

Third_Rail
December 3, 2004, 08:12 PM
Yep, 'tis true about the paper system currently. They phone in (and then mail) the registration papers for every firearm bought.

Chipperman
December 4, 2004, 03:05 PM
They just get the info faster now.

Just buy all of your long guns in NH. Then you can still file using the now obsolete paper system. Hopefully they will never get entered into the database. ;)

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