[Jmurman]

I am thinking of putting some money aside for one of these.

I've read about Springfields that have problems and really dont want to go through that.

First of all, what is the difference between the M1A and M14?

Secondly, can you recommend a quality company, that makes a consistently quality rifle?

What should I plan on budgeting for this?

Thanks

[alamo]

This is currently being discussed:

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=113937

[30Cal]

An M14 is a select fire weapon built under government contract by TRW, H&R, Winchester and the US Federal Armory in Springfield.

The M1A is the trademarked name of a commercial semi-auto replica of the M14 built by Springfield Armory Inc (a private firm that purchased the rights to the Springfield Armory name). Most of the rifles they build work flawlessly. They have been sending out a bad reproduction extractor which has a habit of not working right.

Fulton Armory makes an M14 clone. Expensive.
LRB makes M14 clone receivers. Expensive but nice.
Armscorp. I have heard mixed things about these.
There are Chicom rifles (Polytech, Norinco)--Cheap, usually very long headspace (can only safely fire 7.62mmNATO ammo, not .308Win) no guarantee.

I'd look for a used SA Inc M1A. Plan on spending a good $1200. Fulton or LRB will cost a couple hundred more.

[MAUSER88]

I have two SA's. Never had any kind of problem with either one. :confused:

[sigman4rt]

I bought mine new and have had zero problems. I'm at + 6000 rds. and counting. Only problem I did have was trying to get the cheap a** scope mount I bought to stay tight. Learned my lesson, scopes on an M-1A are finicky, iron sights rule. My $.02 on the subject.

[hillbilly]

I went with a Norinco.

I had the receiver and bolt hardness tested for free by a local tool and die shop.

Both tested fine.

Then, to my Nornico, I have added the following:

1) A camo GI synthetic stock
2) An M1 Garand rear sight
3) A slightly used Kreiger medium contour barrel
4) A glass bedding job on the action.


Because the Norinco was so cheap to begin with, even after I added all the above, my math tells me that I have spent exactly $1046 on an accurized M1A with a target barrel.

Go to http://www.gunsamerica.com and compare $1046 to the Springfield GI grade M1As.

Then, compare $1046 to the prices for accurized M14s with higher grade barrels and glass bedding jobs.

I got an accurized M1A that works just fine, and still have $200 or more from the price of Springfield to spend on ammo.

And since the gun came with three magazines, that's another chunk of cash I saved.

I'm very happy with my Norinco M1A.

hillbilly

[sigman4rt]

Amen, brother, Ihave a Poly-tech that I'm surprised to say shoots every bit as well as my M-1A. Every bit as accurate, at half the price. Only thing I did was change the stock to get rid of chinese wood and that awful rubber butt plate. Love'em both.

[Quintin Likely]

As mentioned earlier, "M1A" is Springfield's tag line for the semi auto civvie version of the M14. As far as Springfield's quality goes, I dunno, I don't have a Springfield and I don't think I'll own one. But they are guaranteed for life, and customer service in general from Springfield isn't too bad from what I hear. As far as which one to buy, I guess it depends on what you want to do. For just a general purpose plinker, SHTF or fun rifle, the Springfield will do fine. For an extremely accurate and consistent smoke pole...bring money and lots of it. Just remember that an M1A isn't exactly a benchrest gun. They are somewhat finicky and high maintenance compared to say, an AR10.

And if you wanted the aforementioned tack driver, I'd suggest hanging around the different highpower boards. Often times, really good rifles show up for sale used at a relative bargain compared to what it took to build them.

[Gewehr98]

Ask Skunkabilly how his held up.

They've had problems with bad bolts, extractors, soft trigger group components, out-of-spec receiver dimensions, etc.

I inspected several Springfields, saw some of the above problems first-hand, then bought an Armscorp receiver, good USGI TRW M14 parts, Krieger barrel, and built my M14NM.

Since then, I couldn't be happier. :D

[Farnham]

Maybe I'm just cursed, but I bought a Springfield Armory M1A Standard about a year ago and I've had the following problems...

Three thousand rounds of Portugese surplus 7.62x51 is expensive! :neener:

FWIW, my M1A came with a USGI H&R chrome lined barrel, a USGI H&R hammer and trigger group, and national match sights...somebody at Springfield was paying attention the day they put her together, because at a hundred yards, anything bigger than a golf ball is gettin it's ticket punched (and when I'm doing better than average, even the golf balls should hide).

I've heard numerous horror stories of SA rifles gone awry, and don't doubt that there are some bad ones out there, but always remember that 100 happy SA owners don't cry near as much as 1 unhappy SA owner.

Farnham

PS: If you must put a scope on, get a Smith Enterprises or ARMS #18 mount, the SA mounts suck!

PPS: If you put a scope on, you're cheating yourself out of the finest iron sights on the planet, and will soon take it back off. Ask me how I know... :rolleyes:

[spartacus2002]

My M1A loaded has run like a champ after about 2K rounds. No hiccups or burps. I've nailed 500 yard popup targets with nary a problem if I do what I have to do, and that's with surplus ammo.

[ChiefPilot]

Ugh. I'm one of the unlucky ones I guess - I bought a SA M1A standard last month and sent it back for warranty service yesterday. After 100 rounds, it would fail to feed from the left side of the magazine. Didn't matter if the magazine was a USGI 20 or a SA Inc. 10 round magazine, it consistently failed to feed. It also failed to extract, although not quite so reliably. Finally, there was obvious contact was some serious wear along the right receiver rail.

SA's customer service department was great, they gave me an RMA number and then apologized and expressed their commitment to stand behind their product.

I'm in a wait-and-see mode now. I like the M1A and the SA customer service folks are great, but I have thought that perhaps I should have checked out the AR-10 that was hanging above it....

[ocabj]

If you get a Springfield M1A, it's probably a better bet to get one that wasn't made in the past couple years. QC seems to have gotten worse since 2002.

For the money you'll spend on an M1A, you may just be better off building one from scratch or going with a Fulton Armory.

[Yo]

I had a Springfield M1A loaded. It had repeated failures to feed and extract and threw off metal shavings, despite two trips to the factory. On the first trip, SA did replace the defectively formed receiver (voids and big casting ripples in the inside). Finally I sent it to Fulton Armory. Clint unitized the front end, and replaced the substandard sand-cast op rod with a GI op rod. We also replaced the bolt with a GI bolt, and replaced the bolt stop and trigger group. He recommended replacing the gas piston too, but the gun was reliable without that upgrade.

I strongly advise any body getting one of these guns to avoid Springfield Armory. :cuss: Get a Chicom or Armscorp receiver, GI components and have a compentent smith build it for you--or look for a good used gun with GI components.

[4v50 Gary]

Springfield subcontracts out for the casting of their receivers. Depending on who casts it for them (and I don't know), the receiver quality varies. Personally I'm leery of SA.

[TAG2501]

My Springfield M1A has been great. For around 1100 brand new its not a bad deal. Subjectively it seems like the most recent SA's may be a bit less reliable, based on the volume of posts. IF you can deal with the $, fulton armory probably makes a more reliable weapon, but the price will be near double (I forget exactly how much). The PolyCorp/Norinco's will be about the same reliability as a very new springfield, without the customer service. The various web sites keep repeating the now legendary issues people have had with the SA weapons, but generall for every issue there are 100 or more satisfied owners out there.

[Ed]

I've got a 2001 Standard model that has never had a single problem. Looks great, no gap under the reciever, shoots real nice. I got it used from a guy who had never shot it and it has been nothing but a joy to me. I'd get another if I had the money.

[buttrap]

Just keep in mind that the things are made in Koreia now and nothing mil spec about them.

[sigman4rt]

I have a Springfield M-1A serial# 147###, standard model. I have never, in over 4000 rds., had a problem with it. (knock on wood). It will shoot consistant 2" groups at 100 meters, with surplus ammo. If I had to choose between it and my DSA-SA58 it would be very,very hard.

[MaceWindu]

"Just remember that an M1A isn't exactly a benchrest gun. They are somewhat finicky and high maintenance compared to say, an AR10."

Oh geez...not another AR is superior person :rolleyes: .....

Well in the Sandbox why is the M14 the DMR and not the AR-10? Hmmmmm...

M1A's, just like AR's are good if you know what to look for...because some AR's are crap also if you don't have an experienced eye and know what to look for...I have 2 M1A's in the low 14XXXX serial # range and not 1 hiccup and I am currently building a 3rd which is a Fulton...

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v188/Triggerman/Loaded1002.bmp
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v188/Triggerman/LdedAimpt001.bmp
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v188/Triggerman/Scout3001.bmp

There is a word for the insurgents in the Sandbox who are challenging our boys with the M14 DMR: DEAD... :evil:

MaceWindu

[spartacus2002]

the 14xxxx range must be a sweet spot for M1As. I have a Loaded in the143xxx range that has probably 2000 rounds thru it with not a single hiccup. With open sights, I've nailed 500 yard popup targets with surplus ammo over and over again.

[MaceWindu]

spartacus2002,

Yup!! My full size is so accurate w/ open sights I will be removing the Aimpoint and putting it on my 3rd build which is a Fulton Bush!!! :D

The M1A is very under estimated...not that AR's are not good platforms also....just tired of hearing that they are the end all be-all of rifles/carbines...

Mace

[Quintin Likely]

Oh geez...not another AR is superior person .....
You know what they say about ass-umptions...

Well in the Sandbox why is the M14 the DMR and not the AR-10? Hmmmmm...
Um, gee, maybe because perfectly good M14s were already available at the time?

I've had the pleasure of seeing very accurate, tuned M1As do their work under relatively harsh conditions, short of combat, in the hands of very hard holding service rifle shooters firing fairly stout loads with a lot of sling tension. Yes, they can be very accurate. It just takes money and maintenance, a lot more than with any AR pattern rifle. Oh wait, that's what I said above, oops. :rolleyes:

Don't get me wrong, I love the rifle. I think it's an excellent balance between firepower and accuracy. But I also know how to read the writing on the wall. I'll get me a nice M1A built someday, but I know it's gonna cost a lot more than its AR service rifle cousin.

[MaceWindu]

"but I know it's gonna cost a lot more than its AR service rifle cousin."

Really!? Do you have the latest issue of S.W.A.T. magazine?

I just received mine yesterday. Guess what is on the cover...Yup...The Bushmaster A3 .308...let's go to the article on page 68....good write up by the way...hmmmm..turn to page 72....quote.."Suggested retail...$1785.00"

More huh? Let's go to the Fulton Armory website (I am currently building a Fulton Bush rifle by the way). Fulton Armory sets the standard with M1A/ M14 builds)...

Standard Service rifle: $1799.00 (LIFETIME GUARANTEE...)

Yeah....HUGE DIFFERENCE... :rolleyes:

MaceWindu

[Quintin Likely]

Really!? Do you have the latest issue of S.W.A.T. magazine?
No, I try to stay at the range and the gun store instead of the magazine racks.

I just received mine yesterday. Guess what is on the cover...Yup...The Bushmaster A3 .308...let's go to the article on page 68....good write up by the way...hmmmm..turn to page 72....quote.."Suggested retail...$1785.00"

More huh? Let's go to the Fulton Armory website (I am currently building a Fulton Bush rifle by the way). Fulton Armory sets the standard with M1A/ M14 builds)...

Standard Service rifle: $1799.00 (LIFETIME GUARANTEE...)

Or you could buy an AR10 for around $1200ish. Which I believe was my original comparison. So, we've gone from M1As, to AR10s, to Bushmaster's .308. And what part of "more maintenance than an AR pattern rifle" did you miss? Accurate M1As require more upkeep than an AR. That's a plain and simple fact. I'm sorry if you can't accept this. And to clear the misconception up on my part, when I said "AR service rifle cousin," I'm referring to an NRA high power service rifle. There is a reason why you see a lot of ARs on the firing line as opposed to M1As.

But I digress. The original topic was about Springfield's M1As. I personally don't think I'll own a Springfield; I'm gonna bide my time and have one built the way I want it, so I know that it's right. I've seen Smith Enterprises built rifles shoot very nicely, a few by Hook that shoot great too. I think Accuracy Speaks still does M1A work as well, and they're held in good regards. I guess the bottom line when it comes to an M1A is what do you want. A nice, general purpose rifle? The Springfield should do you fine. A consistently sub MOA rifle? You may want to look into getting one built by one of the aforementioned smiths, and it will not be cheap, both in initial purchase and maintenance further down the road.

[MaceWindu]

Good points....

I think there is much ado about nothing when the topic of "MOA" comes up. If the BG is hit in the chest or abdomen...the 7.62 round is not gonna leave much left....good debate sir!!

MaceWindu

[Quintin Likely]

What would life be without debate? :)

I'll have a nice M1A someday...

[Steve Smith]

The problem with saying that chest or abdomen accuracy is ok is that you don't know how far away the BG is gonna be. Better to have a very accurate rifle so you can take those long shots with known accuracy.

Quintin...shhhh....don't be tellin' non HP folks about Hook! ;) That man's our treasure.

[MaceWindu]

If a proficient shooter can knock down 12 x 12 plates or pop ups @ 500 yrds with open sights...I'd say that you have a pretty good rifle and shooter on your hands....

Bang...he's DRT...

MW..

[voilsb]

Hey Sigman, love your sig. Were you in the 82nd?

[Quintin Likely]

Steve, Hook who? :confused:















;)

[telewinz]

I've owned a NM M14 Armscorp for several years now and have no issues with it. I had heard that "some" gunsmiths had to put a little extra effort when assembling these rifles but in truth that comment was made years ago and even then was of little concern to the end user even if were true. To avoid the problem just buy the complete rifle from Armscorp, they warranty their accuracy from sub MOA up depending on the model.

[Mannlicher]

I have two Springfields now, a Loaded M1A, and a SOCOM. I have zero complaints. My M1A has mostly USGI parts, including the bolt, op rod, barrel, and trigger group.
I do lust for a Fulton Peerless with the Kriger barrel. Close to three grand, but I have seen, and shot one, and I WANT one.

[sigman4rt]

Negative, do I look that ugly? SEA wargames '70-71 101-502-bravo

[voilsb]

Ahh, it reminded me of "Blood Upon the Risers," the 82nd Airborne song.