Home Depot (Again. . .)


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Seminole
December 2, 2004, 05:20 PM
This afternoon after work I went to the new Home Depot that has just opened up in midtown Memphis. Since I live in midtown, I've been very excited at the prospect of not having to drive as far to shop at Home Depot. I need a couple of florescent light panels to remodel my den and I thought I would buy them at the new store today.

But as I walked up to the door, lo-and-behold--there was a big sign declaring that pursuant to the relevant section of the TN code, Home Depot bans firearms at that location!

After returning to my van, and temporarily storing my weapon, I walked in and asked for the manager. The cashier paged him, but he seems to have had something more important to do than talk to a customer at that moment because he never showed up. I walked out after 15 minutes of waiting.

Now I remember a thread either here or on TFL about Home Depot banning firearms and then rescinding that ban, but I can't seem to find the thread. Can anyone help me out?

I've shopped at other Home Depots in the three years I've lived in Memphis and have never seen a sign banning weapons.

I will be sending an e-mail to corporate headquarters as well as telephoning the general manager of this store and following up with a letter, but I really would like the information about the previous Home Depot bans.

Thanks for any help.

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Battlespace
December 2, 2004, 05:31 PM
Lowe's does not have that policy except for employees while at work. They may carry as long as they leave the weapon in the car. Maybe you need to change where you shop.

bogie
December 2, 2004, 05:34 PM
In Wentzville, Missouri, the "nice" locally owned everything hardware store has posted.

Home Depot hasn't.

I would _rather_ buy stuff from the locally owned business, but I shop at Home Depot instead.

Gunstar1
December 2, 2004, 05:50 PM
Home Depot: employee's are no, customers are ok.

Here you go, .pdf of letter from home depot to Tenn. Firearm Assoc. (http://www.tennesseefirearms.com/law_regs/postedletters/homedepo.pdf)

Unless they changed their policy since Dec. of 2003, the manager has incorrectly posted.

It is not corporate, it is local. I would print that letter out and take it to the manager.

Seminole
December 2, 2004, 06:27 PM
Thanks, Gunstar1!

Based on the previous discussions on these boards (and I suppose at the TFA) I mentioned, I was aware that it is probably a local policy. This letter is exactly what I was looking for.

I called Home Depot's national toll-free number and asked to speak to Mr. Sandor (the dirctor of public relations), but he was already gone for the day. I registered a complaint with the employee who answered the phone and she encouraged me to call back tomorrow.

When I call him back tomorrow, I will let him know that I spend about $200.00 on these two lights at Lowe's because the Home Depot location was posted.

RRTX
December 2, 2004, 06:41 PM
I work for Home Depot and I second what Gunstar1 said, our company policy only prohibits carry by employees. Hopefully your call gets some results, in my experience our corporate offices act pretty quickly on things.

SMMAssociates
December 2, 2004, 06:51 PM
A friend of mine, who is best explained by referring to the "Tasmanian Devil" cartoon character, practically lives at the local Home Depot.

When the signs went up around here after OH's CHL went into effect, he called the manager here and told him that he'd be shopping elsewhere. :eek:

I don't know how much he bought there, but the signs came down....

Unfortunately, my favorite "mom & pop" sort of hardware store hasn't removed it's sign. I sent them the whole "OFCC packet". Haven't been there since I bought a cheap toolbox in April. The box (which has a nice locking latch) is where I store my ammunition.... I figure that I've spent only a hundred dollars or so elsewhere, but I can't be alone. :fire:

Seminole
December 2, 2004, 07:24 PM
I called the Home Depot office and asked to speak to the Directore of Public Relations. Unfortunately, it was after 5:00 p.m. in Atlanta and he had already gone home (the nerve of the guy. . . ;) ) Anyway, I voiced my complaint to the polite young lady who had answered the phone, and was encouraged to call back to speak to him tomorrow. I will do so.

I also sent this e-mail from Home Depot's web page:

To Whom it May Concern:

I have been very excited about the new store that recently opened in midtown Memphis, TN. Today I stopped in for the first time to purchase two fluorescent light panels that I need to remodel my den.

Unfortunately, I noticed a large sign prohibiting the carrying of firearms at that location. As a holder of a Tennessee Handgun Carry Permit I have undergone a thorough background check that certifies that I am among the most law-abiding of citizens. Furthermore, I have carried my weapon without incident on each of the other very frequent occasions I have shopped at the other Home Depot locations in Memphis for the three years I have lived here.

In a letter to the Tennessee Firearms Association dated December 5, 2003 David Sandor, the Director of Public Relations for your corporation, stated, "the Home Depot does not prohibit anyone who is legally permitted to carry firearms from entering our stores, provided the firearms are carried in compliance with all applicable laws and regulations." The sign at this store appears to be in direct violation of your stated policy.

Being legally prohibited by the sign from entering the store, I went instead to a Lowe's store, where I am not prohibited from exercising my right to protect myself and my family, and purchased the two light panels I needed. Although it was out of my way, I spent $208.00 at Lowe's because your store refused me entry.

I hope that you will remedy this situation soon and will bring this store into compliance with what you have stated as policy.

Sincerely,
[Seminole]

We'll see what develops.

Standing Wolf
December 2, 2004, 09:21 PM
...our company policy only prohibits carry by employees...

I guess Home Depot believes its employees' lives are of no value.

SMMAssociates
December 2, 2004, 10:12 PM
Standing Wolf:

I guess Home Depot believes its employees' lives are of no value.

Actually, it's probably rather more complicated....

The employers don't want liability....

A buddy of mine, who's about as Pro-2A as you or I, runs a small business. He doesn't care what his employees do off the job, but cannot permit them to carry (with licenses) when on the job. He can't afford the lawsuit that would result if one of his employees used their weapon. (His people mostly work "outside"....) Meantime, letting "inside" employees carry raises some OSHA issues for "safe workplaces."

My own view is that the larger employers, like Home Depot, probably could take the liability risk if OSHA wasn't likely to get involved. You really don't want them to know where you are.... Small businesses, OTOH, are cooked....

Interestingly, OH's CHL law pretty well exempts (too new to be certain) business owners from any acts by CHL carriers on their premises (and hints at serious liability for folks who post against us), but says nothing about employees.

I blame the lawyers.... :fire:

wally
December 2, 2004, 10:23 PM
In Texas when a business posts the TSRA generally sends out a letter explaing the potential liability they incure should a CHL holder be attacked in their store or parking lot while disarmed because of their policy. I believe they have a legal team ready to pounce should this ever happen.

Around here the main place I see the legally binding signage is at gun shows! There is one shopping mall I know of that that posted, it appears to be going under (Sharpstown).

Neither Lowe's nor Home Depot ban CHL here.

--wally.

Bigjake
December 2, 2004, 10:46 PM
Screw those guys anyway. the Big Boys move in and put all the local hardware places out of buisness. patronize the locals, keep the money in the community. the Big Boys usualy only sell a fuz lower than our local hardware guy, and for the extra couple of pennies or dollars, i'd just as soon buy stuff from a guy who knows me by first name and is helpful and appriciative of my buissness.

Oleg Volk
December 3, 2004, 03:49 AM
Gun shows banning carry turned me off the whole concept. I haven't been back since the local show started to use wands at the door. Of all places!

P95Carry
December 3, 2004, 04:25 AM
Wands??? heck - and I thought presenting my piece at a show here to show it clear before entering was bad enough. Oh my - such is progress! :rolleyes:

SteveS
December 3, 2004, 12:54 PM
The employers don't want liability....

I agree with Standing Wolf on this one. This has come up on numerous occasions and no one has been able to dig up any lawsuits where an employer's lack of an "anti-gun sign" equaled liability. I am not saying it couldn't happen, but I just wanted to know if it happened. The few cases that I am familiar with where there was employer liability seemed more to be based upon the employer knowing that the individual was dangerous (history of threats, bad behavior) and didn't fire the individual.

Wouldn't the employer be just as far ahead placing a sign (or having a policy) prohibiting "unlawful carry?" How about a policy that prohibits workplace violence? I am not aware of any OSHA requirements that employees not carry, though I certainly could be wrong.

SMMAssociates
December 3, 2004, 02:04 PM
I agree with Standing Wolf on this one. This has come up on numerous occasions and no one has been able to dig up any lawsuits where an employer's lack of an "anti-gun sign" equaled liability. I am not saying it couldn't happen, but I just wanted to know if it happened. The few cases that I am familiar with where there was employer liability seemed more to be based upon the employer knowing that the individual was dangerous (history of threats, bad behavior) and didn't fire the individual. Steve: I'm going to go with the Ayoob philosophy here (as redacted by me - figured that BA in Philosophy might be good for something). I believe it's the possibility of lawsuits that tells the tale here. You should have to show that management failed to remove a dangerous individual, but this is the same broad brush approach that keeps us from carrying in Post Offices, where, it seems, the employees are the danger :D . In short, don't take the risk of being sued.Wouldn't the employer be just as far ahead placing a sign (or having a policy) prohibiting "unlawful carry?" How about a policy that prohibits workplace violence? I am not aware of any OSHA requirements that employees not carry, though I certainly could be wrong. The "unlawful carry sign" would be the best, but.... If memory serves, the local Post Office's signs said exactly that until the OH CHL came into being last April, when they were changed to "no carry". (OH's rules explicitly mark Post Offices as CPZs. The DMV has also instructed Deputy Registrars to post, but that's, I think, an abuse of authority.) OSHA doesn't have a specific requirement here - but the same things apply - don't get sued, and don't tell OSHA where you are.

Just IMHO, of course, and YMMV, but fear of lawsuits, whether they're going to win or lose, goes a long way against common sense. Consider the Whirlpool lunacy in progress now. (Yeah - I know they dropped out of the suit, but....)

Hawkmoon
December 3, 2004, 04:26 PM
In general, OSHA is charged with ensuring that employers provide a "safe" workplace. The rules are complex, and usually technical. I believe they are found at CFR 1910 if you wish to do some bedtime reading.

I doubt there is anything in there about concealed carry of handguns -- or any weapons, for that matter. I agree that ensuring the sanity of employees is more important than posting an easily-ignored sign prohbiting otherwise legal concealed carry of a handgun.

Disgruntled employee? At Home Depot? For Gawd's sake, Home Depot SELLS guns -- only they call them Ramsets, and they shoot nails instead of FMJ ammo. If an employee at Home Depot gets upset, he/she has an arsenal right on the premises.

Seminole
December 6, 2004, 06:37 PM
Good news!

I received the following e-mail message today in response to the one I sent last Thursday.

Dear [Seminole],


Thank you for contacting The Home Depot Customer Care.


You are correct. That sign should have been removed. We have contacted
the Management team at the Midtown Memphis Home Depot to have them
remove the sign immediately.


We apologize for any inconvenience this may have caused you.


The Home Depot does not prohibit anyone who is legally permitted to
carry firearms from entering our stores, provided the firearms are
carried in compliance with all applicable laws and regulations.


If you would like to speak with a Customer Care professional, please
call us at 1-800-553-3199 (USA) or 1-800-668-2266 (Canada). We would
like to provide you a ticket number as a record of your concern. Your
number is [xxxxxxx].



Sincerely,


Shelby
Customer Care Department
homedepot.com

I'll go by in a day or two and see if the sign has been taken down.

Average Guy
December 6, 2004, 06:42 PM
Nice! Now what about the store manager who was "too busy" to speak to a customer?

Leatherneck
December 7, 2004, 08:57 AM
Now what about the store manager who was "too busy" to speak to a customer? Yeah. I'd be inclined to take a copy of that e-mail you got from corporate and request to "discuss with the manager some correspondence from HQ about his performance." Then read him the riot act. Pompous fool. :mad:

TC
TFL Survivor

gigmike
December 7, 2004, 10:32 AM
Seminole,

Congratulations for setting this straight and thanks for taking the time to do so!

txgho1911
December 7, 2004, 11:01 AM
Is this same info stated as policy somewhere at HD website? Maybe a form letter or such one could print at home to put the HD team member in his/her place?
Also something to show other individuals at other companys who restrict approved citizens?

confinedbythecurtain
December 7, 2004, 02:34 PM
I always find it difficult to get help at Home Depot. No one works in the section you are in! I guess thats par for the course at HD.

Gunstar1
December 7, 2004, 02:41 PM
Give them a chair so they can sit in thier section, instead of wandering around the store. Every time you find someone, "This is not my section, let me call them for you"

I will say once you find the right person they are usually helpful.

Rickstir
December 7, 2004, 02:45 PM
The Home Depot in Columbia, MO is not posted. In the past I have had customer service type complaints about that store. One day, I patiently waited at the service desk. I was going to buy in insulated, six-panel exterior door. Just as it was my turn to speak to the service guy, the phone rings. He picks it up and off he goes. I found the manager and pi$$ a bundle about that. Left and went to Lowe's and bought the door. Came back (it was on the way home), took the receipt into the manager to show him I wasn't blowing smoke. I got the impression he didn't care much. Sent headquarters and email and told them the whole story. Within 1 hour after the email was sent the manager of the Columbia store called me to apologize. Guess he got his butt reamed pretty good. :neener:

papercut
December 8, 2004, 12:20 AM
confinedbythecurtain remarked:
I always find it difficult to get help at Home Depot. No one works in the section you are in! I guess thats par for the course at HD.
Gee, I never have that problem. But then again, the Home Depot location I go to is within visual rifle range of the main office--they're on opposite sides of the interstate. :neener:

roo_ster
December 8, 2004, 12:54 AM
I have never seen a HD posted with a 30.06 here in Texas (30.06=no CCW).

The HD in E Plano is so pathetic I will never again darken their door. The HD in W Richardson is the best HD I have ever visitied.

The stores are separated by 10 miles in distance, but are 1000 miles apart in customer service.

Most every Lowes I have been to has had decent customer service.

SMMAssociates
December 8, 2004, 01:16 AM
The local Home Depot is OK, barely. The usual "where is somebody?" issues....

But if I am able to find somebody, I can usually get what I need, and they've got some really useful stuff.

Having said that, I hate to shop in general, and really don't like to go in there anyway. I'm enough of a tool freak to enjoy a hardware store, but not this one.

(My favorite hardware store is now a CPZ.... I stay out.... Damnit.... :fire: Not even the courtesy of a reply when I wrote them.)

But I'm pleased that the local Home Depot isn't posted. At least if I need to go in there, I can....

Seminole
December 8, 2004, 01:44 AM
Is this same info stated as policy somewhere at HD website? Maybe a form letter or such one could print at home to put the HD team member in his/her place?

I couldn't find anything on the HD home page, but Gunstar1 posted the link above (http://www.tennesseefirearms.com/law_regs/postedletters/homedepo.pdf) at which can be found the letter from Home Depot's Director of Public Relations to the Tennessee Firearms Association, stating that their policy is to permit CCL holders to carry in their stores. Note that this is a national policy--not just one that applies to the state of Tennessee.

publius
December 9, 2004, 07:28 AM
I just look at the ground as I go into stores. There's never anything written down there. :neener:

GAMALOT
December 9, 2004, 01:04 PM
"I always find it difficult to get help at Home Depot. No one works in the section you are in! I guess thats par for the course at HD."

"I know what you mean"

Give them a chair so they can sit in thier section, instead of wandering around the store. Every time you find someone, "This is not my section, let me call them for you"

I will say once you find the right person they are usually helpful.

Maybe this is why they post the store- to keep the employees safe!

Gunstar1
December 9, 2004, 01:50 PM
Maybe this is why they post the store- to keep the employees safe!

Na, that would just make them act worse. They wont be helpful unless they fear the consequenses. :evil:

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