given we're entering a 'WW II' type situation, what do we need to prepare for?


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ahadams
March 1, 2003, 01:08 AM
What I mean is, in terms of firearms and such. F'rinstance durring WWII Gen Patton had a .357 magnum, but no more were produced durring the war and neither (as far as I can tell) was any .357 ammo. Given that we get involved in another global war scenario which redirects production within the USA, what do we need to prepare for, as far as shortages? First things I can figure would be powder and primers for reloaders, but what else?

anybody?

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Coronach
March 1, 2003, 02:10 AM
I'm not sure that your premise is correct.

Mike

SquirrelNuts
March 1, 2003, 02:25 AM
Just buy a bunch for whatever you already own.

-SquirrelNuts

Hal
March 1, 2003, 04:00 AM
87 octane @ ~ $3.00 per

-

Schuey2002
March 1, 2003, 04:09 AM
Airline tickets and money, 'cuz I'm headin' for Hawaii...:D

DadOfThree
March 1, 2003, 04:40 AM
Hawaii??? They'll take your guns away. :D :D

telewinz
March 1, 2003, 08:01 AM
See which way the wind is blowing, then either stay christian or convert to islam:D

Quantrill
March 1, 2003, 08:27 AM
Pearl Harbor is in Hawaii. Not a good comparison for WWII. Quantrill

sixgun_symphony
March 1, 2003, 10:00 AM
You might want to get a flintlock muzzle-loading rifle and musket for hunting and general knockabout field gun.

You can knap your own flints, cast your own ball/shot, and make your own gunpowder. You can find people to teach you these pioneer skills by attending buckskinner rendezvous.

You will then be able to always have guns & ammo for hunting and shooting.

Boats
March 1, 2003, 10:28 AM
A WWII situation?

I guess I am getting ready to pointedly ignore a plea from the sheeple of England to ship them surplus firearms for defence of the chunnel after the French surrender on the basis of a rumor that four guys comprising the crew of Col. Qaddafyih's weekend yacht just put into Monaco for a Riviera Romp with their boss.:evil:

4v50 Gary
March 1, 2003, 01:04 PM
A cottage industry sprang up during the Revolution with folks making their own blackpowder. Ahh, for the old days.

Gary H
March 1, 2003, 01:24 PM
Your post suggest WWIII. If this is WWIII, then it will not look anything like WWII.

You might need some anti-ship missiles to stop container ships with nukes.

Knee supports for the French.

A prayer rug if we lose.

Mr Jody Hudson
March 1, 2003, 01:31 PM
Personally, I'd say the best thing you can do is to move to where you want to be. Become a valuable and trusted member of the community and it's volunteer groups.

Find a way to continue your current income while living there or learn to get along well with what you earn at the new location. Save half of what you earn and purchase double or tripple what you use on a regular basis.

Learn to repair and maintain everything you own and reduce or eliminate your dependence on outside energy sources.

Learn to hunt and fish, farm and garden, and become the very best person in the neighborhood as far as others are concerned. Join the volunteer fire department in some capacity get to know the politicians and cops....

And learn to love your new life and everyone around you. :)

Schuey2002
March 1, 2003, 01:56 PM
OK, so I won't fly to Hawaii!!!

I'm off to Alaska then...:D

ahadams
March 1, 2003, 10:40 PM
We are already in a recession headed for a depression and we're about to become involved / are already involved in a war which threatens to split the world into opposing factions a la WWII. Although there may be minor use of tac nukes I expect any such will be primarily in 3rd world countries...very possibly *by* 3rd world countries, since none of the major players are willing to take a shot at another major player since they know what sort of retribution they'd have to absorb as a result.

I would submit that the military in this country will grow radically over the next 3 to 5 years requiring massive industrial support which will require shelving of much nonessential technology (remember television transmission began in the UK and on the US east coast in the late 1930's but then ceased for the duration of the war). Given that is the scenario which occurs, what do we need to prepare for? In other words, neither TEOTWAWKI nor status quo, but something else. I think we're all fairly adept at thinking about TEOTWAWKI, but not very good at all at thinking about something else . What say y'all?

Triad
March 1, 2003, 11:28 PM
If I understand you, you're talking about a WWIII scenario that would involve the rationing of fuel, food, and lots of other supplies and the availabilty of guns and ammo to be extremely low or non existent, right? Well, I don't think that would happen, but if it did you're only likely to have ammo if you had stocked up ahead of time, or if you could make your own.

Manny
March 1, 2003, 11:34 PM
Too young to have any personal experiance with WWII conditions, but the period up to and during has always held a facination for me, especially repurcussions on the homefront. ( On a totally unrelated note, I wish prez Bush had chosen "Dept of Homefront Security", just seems more in keeping with history in my eyes) The shortages and dificulties average citizens had to put up with were many and varied, no cars, very difficult at best to get guns or ammo, very limited amount of consumer goods, shortages of any number of food items etc... While I personally don't think it'd get that bad again I could easily be wrong and far too optomistic. Just think of the resulting consequences if someone were to smugle in and detonate a small nuke or dirty bomb in one of the main ports for shipping here in the US. Think how much everyday stuff is imported from China and elsewhere, shoes for example. You can't hardly find any not made in China, as a matter of fact it is depressingly hard to find much of anything not made in China anymore. If something happened to shut or slow down much of the shipping in goods that comes in to the US many folks would be in for a rude awakening as the shelves at Walmart and most other stores quickly became bare. Even traditional goods carried at Lehmans would be affected, as so much is made overseas. To get ready I think you might want to look at your consumables, stuff you use everyday and decide what would'nt be available in such a case. Something as simple as a can of tuna might disappear from shelves in such a scenario. I think basics, such as wheat, corn, milk, etc.. would be avialable as most is raised here for export, but imports of anything would be in short supply. Might not hurt to have a spare pair or two of boots stuck in the closet, make sure you have some extra maintenance supplies and a spare set of tires for the Toyota or Kubota. A fuel efficiant vehicle, with a back up of a good back with a spare set of tires and tubes could be a god-send if gas is scarce. Have a few cases of oil put back, just in case. A couple bricks of .22 and a case or two of shotgun shells would be comforting. A good bike with a spare set of tires and tubes would be handy if gas becomes scarce. A wood burner to heat the homestead in case heating oil gets scarce. All things easy to find now, maybe not then.
Manny

UnknownSailor
March 2, 2003, 12:49 AM
One thing to bear in mind is that all those shortages during WWII were primarily to support all the man power we had in uniform at the time. (over 8 million, just in the Army alone)

Since the draft no longer exists in any meaningful form, the days of the country having to support such a massive manpower drain are long gone.

Sure, we might see gas rationing, but seriously, I can't see much else in the way of rationing

ahadams
March 2, 2003, 01:17 AM
Triad, you are essentially correct though I hope your username isn't an alternative for Tong which is what triads are apparently called now a days in the Chinese American community.

I also think Manny has the right idea generally.

My question to Unknown Sailor is this: at what point does a draft again become a reasonable solution to the problem?

Let me explain that last part. My first hitch with the Army was at the end of the draft era and the second hitch was at the beginning of the 'all volunteer' era. What I noticed, and this may just have been in the intelligence field, since I didn't work any in any other area (although I really liked the idea of shooting at airplanes!), was that the average education level of the enlisted personnel went DOWN in the all volunteer era. When I was a sergeant I had a year and a half of college and I was *undereducated* compared to the folks I was supervising. When I was lieutenant with a BA, only a couple of the senior NCOs (and most of the warrant officers) had at least tech school degrees and several had BA's. So the question is: is that still the status in the 'all volunteer' force, and can we fight a major war that way?

Diesle
March 2, 2003, 01:25 AM
Overcome, adapt and adjust...!


Diesle

sixgun_symphony
March 2, 2003, 01:33 AM
If we have a draft then its really going to hell in a handbasket.

This is the post 1960's America, tens of millions will join up with the marxist "peace" organizations and they will shut this country down.

Triad
March 2, 2003, 02:09 AM
ahadams, no it isn't an alternative for Tong, it isn't remotely related to anything Chinese. Back on topic, I don't see the draft ever becoming a reasonable solution to the problem. I don't see any situation that would require conscription to bring enough manpower to service. The other part to that is that I don't think conscription would work. Like sixgun symphony I think you would see the Vietnam era protests and such on a much larger scale. I am one of the young men they might try to draft, and I'm doubtful that I would go.

UnknownSailor
March 2, 2003, 07:33 AM
Let me explain that last part. My first hitch with the Army was at the end of the draft era and the second hitch was at the beginning of the 'all volunteer' era. What I noticed, and this may just have been in the intelligence field, since I didn't work any in any other area (although I really liked the idea of shooting at airplanes!), was that the average education level of the enlisted personnel went DOWN in the all volunteer era. When I was a sergeant I had a year and a half of college and I was *undereducated* compared to the folks I was supervising. When I was lieutenant with a BA, only a couple of the senior NCOs (and most of the warrant officers) had at least tech school degrees and several had BA's. So the question is: is that still the status in the 'all volunteer' force, and can we fight a major war that way?

I look at this way. With current US military doctrine being so dependant on technology, even in the infantry, the training conscripts would need to be worth a darn might take up to half their term of service (if said term is 1 year, like the last time they were used). The days of the cannon fodder grunt are over, and have been for a long time.

Also, nobody I know wants conscripts, especially those retired military DoD employees, who origionally came in during that time.

As for college, about a third of my department goes to some form of school.

cheygriz
March 2, 2003, 04:46 PM
I don't consider your scenario likely, but if you do, the advice from Jody Hudson is spot on!

Become a good neighbor, a good citizen of your community/neighborhood, a good (and helpful) friend to all of your neighbors, become valuable to and well liked by your community, learn basic survival/living skills, and STOCKPILE non-perishable food and potable water. Then buy all of the ammo/reloading components you budget can stand.

Make sure you have enough "surplus" to share with those who do not have the foresight to prepare. Make sure you have the arms and ammo to arm your ill prepared neighbors as well.

You will then become not only well loved, but also indespensible to your community, and they will work but to protect you.

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