Glock and the California handgun laws


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PinnedAndRecessed
December 5, 2004, 01:40 AM
This might just be an urban legend, but I heard that when Kommiefornicate, oops, I mean California, passed the drop test law, that Glock refused to participate. Glock supposedly said that if that's the way Kalifornicate wanted it, then Glock would not send any parts, etc., to Kal. Now, this upset Kal LEOs because so many use Glocks.

So the Kommies in Sacramento amended the drop test regs to exempt Glock.
The reasoning was that since so many Glocks were in official use that it was prima fascia evidence that the gun is safe.

True or legend?

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Ieyasu
December 5, 2004, 02:30 AM
Bogus.

You can see a list of Glocks with the date their certifications expire here:
http://justice.doj.ca.gov/safeguns/safeguns_new.taf

magsnubby
December 5, 2004, 03:17 AM
Why would they amend it? The whole idea behind the drop test is to insure the gun won't fire if it's dropped.

That's the offical reason.

I don't have to explain the real reason do i?

mcmoyer
December 5, 2004, 03:50 AM
Damn, looking at that website makes me real grateful that I live in Texas.

:D :D

We just got back from a trip to California...it is a beautiful place & the folks we met were real friendly, but still...DAMN!! Must be something in the air or water up there in Sacramento. How about that list of handgun models that have been taken OFF the list??

:what:

Sactown
December 5, 2004, 04:06 AM
Blatant government extortion. Like suddenly de-listed firearms are now unsafe to own. Friggin ID10Ts.

Chuck Jennings
December 5, 2004, 04:47 AM
Yep. Blatant extortion of the firearms industry. Just another means to get a pound of flesh out of the manufacturers. They have to pay a hefty fee and submit (non returnable) firearms for testing. It also makes it damn hard to get a good used gun on gunbroker!

AFAIK, any handgun would probably pass the test. Heck, there Bryco/Jennings pistols on the list!

George S.
December 5, 2004, 12:02 PM
Without looking at some of the specific models mentioned, it may be that some of the pistols haven't been upgraded to meet the CA requirements. I find it hard to believe that similar models of the same brand are on boths lists.

The most saddening thing I found in reviewing the lists is that there are 39 pistols approved and 94 pistols that now cannot be sold and that rejected list include some very high-quality pistols. And yet, you can buy one in any other of the 49 states.....

This is more about CA liberal anti-gun viewss in general than it is about the operating safety of a given handgun. In all my years of shooting, I have never dropped a handgun. Besice the obvious safety issues, I paid a lot of money for my handguns and I can't even contemplate risking damage to them by being careless with them.

I don't see Glocks as an issue for law enforcement use. I would have to think that any Glock LEO service pistol would have some sort of an exempt status when purchased by a police officer for duty use or by a government agency for issue to an LEO. After all, don't most CA police agenices also have AR's available to them with hi-cap mags, along with shotguns that hold much more than what a "civilian" shotgun holds??

Ieyasu
December 5, 2004, 12:21 PM
I don't see Glocks as an issue for law enforcement use. I would have to think that any Glock LEO service pistol would have some sort of an exempt status when purchased by a police officer for duty use or by a government agency for issue to an LEO

You got it, by George. :) That's how most of the gun ban/control laws are passed in Mexifornia. LEO's, and usually retired LEO's, are exempted to remove them as a source of opposition to the legislation.

Boats
December 5, 2004, 01:53 PM
How could anyone believe in Glock business integrity? Remember the "frame upgrade?" Remember the ballistic fingerprinting hilarity?

Glock never tells any governmental agency where to go, just their non-mil/LEO buyers. :D

confinedbythecurtain
December 6, 2004, 04:35 PM
Are a joke! :barf:

Ewok
December 6, 2004, 04:43 PM
Specific models are taken off the list when the manufacturer declines to pay the relisting fee. That's why, for example, Walther P99 QPQ 9mm is off the list, while P99 Titanium Coated 9mm is on the list. The QPQ is a discontinued model.

magsnubby
December 6, 2004, 09:28 PM
You want stupidity?

An example:

Taurus 85 in blue.

Taurus 85 in blue, D/A only (same gun but with a D/A only hammer).

Taurus 85 in stainless steel.

They're all basically the same gun but they're considered different models.

Each "model" has to undergo seperate testing.

jnojr
December 6, 2004, 09:37 PM
What is Glock going to do when LCIs and magazine disconnects are mandatory? My guess is, they'll make a couple of models for CA, and that's it. They are not going to make a CA-only version of every model, nor are they going to force these "features" down the throats of everyone else in the country.

The drop-test law needs to get killed. It's the brick that's going to break the camels back, I think. This issue is more important than CCW reform or repealing SB23. If it stands, 2007 is going to be a very, very bad year for us, and things will only go downhill from there.

magsnubby
December 6, 2004, 09:39 PM
The new regs only apply to newly introduced models. All others were grandfathered in. Whaterever is legal now will be legal then.

MagnumCaliber357
December 6, 2004, 09:45 PM
HAHAHAahaHAhA thats hilariouse, the list of handguns that are banned, that is. So basically berreta and colt just pissed it off and just said "oh well" ahahah Kali is so dumb what were they thinking!!!!

jnojr
December 6, 2004, 09:52 PM
The new regs only apply to newly introduced models. All others were grandfathered in. Whaterever is legal now will be legal then.

Only for private-party transactions! Guns that drop off of the list can not be sold by a gun store! They can be sold on consignment. But once a gun drops off the list and won't ever be re-added, how many people are going to blithely sell it, knowing they will most likely never be able to buy another?

This reminds me of the bellyaching over all the previous laws we know are absolute death now. "Oh, it isn't that bad". "You'll still be able to buy X. Calm down". This law, if not repealed, is going to deal one hell of a blow to the retail firearms market in this state. Gun stores will have much less selection at much higher prices, which is going to adversely affect demand, which is going to mean stores closing. There are only so many stores that will be able to stay open by selling to the police, especially considering the big departments don't buy from the local dealer.

How many guns now have a loaded chamber indicator and a magazine disconnect? Not very many. And those are the only ones that will be available for sale. Sure, the big manufacturers will create a couple of lines of "California Specials"... but choice will be out the window. There'll maybe be a couple of models, each in a couple of calibers, to choose from from each of the biggies... HK, SIG, Glock, S&W Everyone else will be locked out of CA. It's just too expensive to run a seperate assembly line, and nobody is going to re-engineer all of their existing lines to add "features" nobody wants to satisfy the requirements of one state.

I think this one will take a lawsuit. I think we ought to have good grounds, as the law is ostensibly about safety, yet exempts police, military, and the government. That's proof, right there, that it is not about safety.

What's involved in filing a lawsuit to challenge a law like this?

Don of Kalifornia
December 6, 2004, 10:23 PM
Unfortunaly most of you don't understand either the drop test law, or the chamber indicator/disconnect law.

The disconnect/indicator applies to NEW design handguns only, if a manufactor doesn't change design indicators/disconnects are not required.

As far as the drop test goes yes people from Glock were in Sacramento when SB 15 was working it's way thru the capitol. They convinced the state/legislators the the trigger safety on a Glock is a safety. According to the state DOJ handguns are not only tested at manufactors expense, but it also costs $200 a year to keep each handgun on the 'Approved' list.

Yes both the above laws are total B.S. along with SB 23 the 'assault weapon ban' this is the main reason I moved to Arizona.

During all three of these bills I 'worked' (for free) in the capitol to stop these bills from passing. The real problem in Sacramento is the legislature is run by the crazy dems from the bay area, and the dems from LA that want to make crime the fault of gun onwers (most of which are more conservitive) than punish the drug dealers and gang bangers

magsnubby
December 6, 2004, 11:03 PM
jnojr,
I was refering to the new '06-'07 legeslation not the current law. Any gun that is on the approved list now will still be on the approved list when the new legislation goes into effect in '06 and '07.

Gun shops can still sell any gun on consignment that has dropped from the list. I still haven't figured that one out. I can take my nonapproved S&W 28-2 and have them sell it on consignment but they can't buy the gun from me and resell it. Anyway you look at it the shop is making money by selling a nonapproved gun.

The whole thing gives me a headache.

EOD Guy
December 7, 2004, 12:41 PM
You want stupidity?

An example:

Taurus 85 in blue.

Taurus 85 in blue, D/A only (same gun but with a D/A only hammer).

Taurus 85 in stainless steel.

They're all basically the same gun but they're considered different models.

Each "model" has to undergo seperate testing.

That's not true. If the only difference between the models is cosmetic (finish, grip material, grip shape, etc), only one model has to be tested. The manufacturer can certify that the others are identical mechanically and in size and dimensions.

See PC 12131.5.

Regardless, it's still a BS law.

Chuck Jennings
December 7, 2004, 01:16 PM
That is true. However, if it is not explicitly on the list, most dealers won't do the DROS.

EOD Guy
December 7, 2004, 01:29 PM
That is true. However, if it is not explicitly on the list, most dealers won't do the DROS.

I think the different models still have to be listed, and the listing fee paid. They just don't have to go through the actual tests.

Sactown
December 7, 2004, 04:13 PM
different finish? resubmit
different sights? resubmit
different barrel length? resubmit
different grip panels? resubmit
madness.

EOD Guy
December 7, 2004, 04:54 PM
different finish? resubmit

No

different sights? resubmit

Possibly

different barrel length? resubmit

Yes

different grip panels? resubmit

No

madness.

Yes

Gordon Fink
December 7, 2004, 04:57 PM
The disconnect/indicator applies to NEW design handguns only, if a manufactor doesn't change design indicators/disconnects are not required.

I hope you’re right, but I doubt it.

~G. Fink

Librarian
December 7, 2004, 11:53 PM
"The disconnect/indicator applies to NEW design handguns only, if a manufactor doesn't change design indicators/disconnects are not required."

More precisely, if a gun is on the 'approved' list, it can stay on the list so long as the renewal fees are paid.

To get a handgun on the list, it must meet the requirements in force at the time.

Rather than 'new design', I think one ought to say 'handguns newly submitted for certification'.

wolf
December 8, 2004, 02:31 PM
tried to buy a Beretta Cougar L..nope..not on the list...i called beretta & the DOJ to find out when it would be tested...the "lab" decides that i was told ... so the hell with it...i ordered a full size cougar 8000f...hey..your gun is here...go to the shop...open the box...its a cougar L...took it home and never looked back

wolf

flatrock
December 8, 2004, 04:06 PM
Bulgarian Makarovs which have a free floating firing pin, and no firing pin block passed the drop test.

I can't immagine that guns are removed because they fail to meet the standards.

I can believe that CA would remove them if they don't continue to pay to be recertified.

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