[Gary H]

Just curious... Let us know what country you are from and what the local political atmosphere is like with regards to firearms. Also would be interested in local opinions regarding Iraq.

Thanks..

Outside U.S. only ..please.. Berkeley and San Francisco are still within the U.S... at least geographically.....

[CampX]

Country: Canada

Political atmosphere toward firearms: Well..... I believe my so-called government is trying to disarm us slowly. Me, I keep on buying more and more. Us Canadians are too laid-back towards the manure our leaders try to impose on us. The gov't just announced another 170 Million Loonies spending towards the the Federal Gun Registry, putting it up over a BILLION dollars of wasted taxpayers money. Without having a shred of evidence to prove that by registering Granddad's 30-06 will save a child's life....

Local feelings towards the Iraq scenario: Honestly, in my group of immediate friends and co-workers, who I would happily label gun nuts and rednecks, I would say that 80 percent oppose war in Iraq. Before you slay me for that, hear me out. We are not saying that we are anti-war. We ARE saying that we oppose how the US always wants to go in guns-ablazin, without any regards to the facts. We don't like the US media and how they twist and distort facts. I guess that is what the media everywhere does, but we Canadians didn't rush out and empty the shelves of stores, buying rolls of poly and duct-tape on media hype alone. We don't like Bush AT ALL. But then again, I can't stand my own Prime Minister. We also believe the impending war is unavoidable, because the US must be spending billions on the 200,000 plus troops it has in the region. You are not just gonna pull them out without having first smashed Iraq to pieces. And we also believe this war has nothing to do with WMD's and terrorism, but OIL and to build a power base in the Middle East where you can project your military might from. That ought to make the Islamic zealots happy, EH? Anyways, when the tanks start rolling and the bombs start dropping, I wish the best for your troops, and I hope that there aren't too many casualties. I just don't see the point of this crap anymore. You'd think that mankind, by now, would have the brains and knowledge of history to figure out that blowing each other to smithereens isn't always the best answer. I believe that WW1 and WW2 needed to be fought, but I ain't so sure about this one.......

[nemesis]

Now we've heard from the 3rd world.

We ARE saying that we oppose how the US always wants to go in guns-ablazin, without any regards to the facts.

If only we had their intel resources. Here I thought George Dubbaya had the best intel in the world at his command and now I find out that isolated communities on the Alaska Highway know the real truth.

We don't like Bush AT ALL. But then again, I can't stand my own Prime Minister.

Is there a world leader that you can endorse?

And we also believe this war has nothing to do with WMD's and terrorism, but OIL and to build a power base in the Middle East where you can project your military might from.

Yeah, you got us there. Did you notice after the first Gulf War that we occupied the oil fields of Iraq and Kuwait and never left?

You'd think that mankind, by now, would have the brains and knowledge of history to figure out that blowing each other to smithereens isn't always the best answer.

You're right, let's negotiate. Hey, haven't we been negotiating for twelve years?

Why is all this "Peace" talk coming from a country that executed surrendering German Prisoners in Normandy (see Royal 22nd Rgmt.). The same peaceful folks whose Airborne Regiment tortured to death young Somali thieves that had entered their camp. And, yes, the same peaceful folks whose troops in Afghanistan took pictures of themselves mutilating the bodies of dead terrorists. All of the above are part of warfare. I just object to warfaring nations criticizing us for carrying the battle to our enemies. Canada wasn't attacked on 9/11, we were.

Remember the Alamo! These Colors don't run!

[CampX]

For cryin' out loud, it's about stating your point of view. Like I said, we aren't anti-war (or anti-gun or anti-Bush or anti-American). We just don't agree with a lot of the policies and politics of diplomacy by force.
It's hilarious how by being an outsider (one that wasn't attacked on 911) with an opinion can get a person flamed. I've toned down my opinions quite a bit lately in order to try and get a thoughtful and productive exchange of ideas, but apparently it don't work.
I believe all world leaders have their agendas and alliances, it's just that some are a little more transparent than others.
As for the state of my military, it's a shame. The things you stated are a direct result of the Liberal government trying to run the military, and not letting the military run itself. Our troops are world class, as Afghanistan proved. Our policy is one of "peacekeeping", so when they are involved in firefights like Kosovo and Afghanistan and they KILL the enemy (GOD FORBID), they aren't even recognized for their bravery. It's a shame that our snipers in Afghanistan weren't recognized by our government, but could be given awards from the US military. 2547 yds for a sniper kill, amazing.
Thank you for actually being able to point out where I live on a map. Too bad another 250 million Americans couldn't actually know where Canada is, let alone Mile 300 on the Alcan. If you're ever up this way, I'd be glad to meet ya and take you to some of the best elk, moose, and Stone sheep hunting in the world, and to discuss politics.

[Deadman]

Australia

Gun laws here make it worse than Kalifornia.
Generally most people don't pay attention to gun 'issues', as the use of firearms is not as widespread as it is in the U.S., and people just carry on in their daily lives more concerned about the environment or public education etc.

However once a tragic shooting takes place, all the standard leftist anti-gun rhetoric is spouted forth in all sections of the media (which a majority of Aus. citizens swallow without any disagreement). More gun laws usually follow. Even if the political party in power at the time is what one would ordinarily consider 'conservative' or 'right wing'.


As for Iraq. Without U.N. approval, most Australian citizens are opposed to another war in Iraq. Once again for all the usual leftist BS reasons. If there is U.N. approval then most Australians will support a U.S. led international coalition.
Why U.N. support is so damned important to most Australians is beyond me.....
However on this issue the Australian government is largely ignoring public opinion and any peace protests, and has a strong commitment to supporting the U.S. For eg. Aus. SAS troops were in Afghanistan and are now most likely somewhere in or around Iraq. Plus the Aus. Defence Force also has naval, aircraft and other landbased assets in the middle eastern region.

[TallPine]

CampX: I don't mind your opinion at all, FWIW.

Mile 300 ... is that below or above Watson Lake? When I went to Alaska and back, I went via Prince George BC and the "Cassiar Highway" which comes out on the Alcan just above Watson Lake, IIRC.

Fantastically wild and beautiful country, especially back in the 70s when the road wasn't much to speak of - back then it was mostly dirt or gravel and most of the bridges were made of logs. Some brand new bridges, too, that didn't have a deck on them yet - just a couple planks laid down over the steel. :eek:

Would love to go back up there again, but I sure ain't traveling that country without "protection" ;) I doubt your country would let us through with even a rifle unless I had a Canadian hunting license, etc. Probably has to be "sealed" or something, too.

I hope you all can shove this registry nonsense right back up the politicians ... well - you know what. :)

[CampX]

It must be that as Commonwealth countries, we still feel the need to appease the UN. I think the UN is becoming a toothless tiger, so to speak. They still carry a lot of political and military power, but are too scared or handcuffed to wield it. Whereas the US just can't wait to use their military every chance they get, because it justifies them as a people and a country and who they are in the world.
I am glad that the Aussie government at least has a solid stance and is committed. My PM Chretien is the master of doing nothing and NOT taking a stand, which makes Canadians as a whole look like a bunch of boobs. If he actually came out and said that we were against the regime in Iraq, and against global terrorism, and that he would send as many of our troops that our miltary budget could handle to help out, I'd be the first to applaud. But instead he stands back in the shadows of world politics and says nothing until he gets a feel of what the status quo is.
On a lighter and more pathetic note, we were sending our flagship HMCS Iriquois to the region to patrol the waters. But a day out of port in Canada, one of our 40 year old SeaKing helicopters crashed on it's deck during takeoff. So back to port it is, to do repairs on both. Sad.

[4v50 Gary]

Anybody from Argentina, specifically Monte Video?

I'd like to know if the citadel still exists and the name of the commanding officer in 1807.

[nemesis]

CampX: I'm sorry you feel you were "flamed" as that was not the purpose nor intent of my response.

I welcome your opinion but I felt that you went well beyond opinion and went all the way to judgement. If you said "in my opinion, America should not go ahead without multinational support...yakkety, yak", I would accept it. You didn't. You handed down judgement. You said...........

We ARE saying that we oppose how the US always wants to go in guns-ablazin, without any regards to the facts.
we also believe this war has nothing to do with WMD's and terrorism, but OIL and to build a power base in the Middle East where you can project your military might from.

Please feel free to set forth your opinion, this is a free country. If you are comfortable with passing judgement..........I'll give you my assessment of a nation that harbors terrorists and coddles criminals while it disarms its citizens. I can't tell you what country that is because that would be judgment.

[CampX]

Maybe I missed the point a little, but I don't feel as if it was passing judgement....still an opinion. If you do go in guns-ablazin, then can I have an opinion? Or will it still be a judgement? I think we are arguing semantics here, and as I am not a professor of the English laguage, I respectfully surrender. Must be the French-Canadian part of my persona talking, even though I have zero French in me; wish I could say that for my Prime Minister....il est un imbecile!
Whats this about us harbouring terrorists?!? Thats news to me. Oh wait, my news, being Canadian news, doesn't have the same stance as pro-American news. So when I watch CNN and they are talking about Canada harboring terrorists, and how WE let them into YOUR country, they don't seem to mention that in order to cross the border from here to there, they must go through AMERICAN customs. Huh. What about the hijackers of 911 and how they got their flight training at centres in the US?
Yes, we do coddle our criminals, but so do you. I'd love to see a chain gang on the side of the road, digging ditches or picking garbage. No cable TV, no steak dinners. Let 'em pay their debt to society, not having more rights then their victims. By the way, how many thousands of people in the US have done time or are doing time for being caught with a tiny little roach of a joint?
And yes, while my country seems like it doesn't want me to own guns, I will do everything to fight that. Like buying a lot more, and emailing my members of parliament and bugging them about what they are doing to help us common folk out.
We aren't so different, Canada and the US, although the media and government does it's best to drive the wedge in there.

[TIMC]

Do You Live Outside of the U.S. Borders?


I believe I might, I live in Texas :neener:

[UnknownSailor]

I used to. I spent 4 years in Japan, in 2 two year stretches.

[fallingblock]

but I'll add some more comment about Australia.

The media here are firmly united against the idea of civilian firearms ownership, The P.M. John Howard has said several times that he 'hates' firearms and he is leader of the 'coalition' of the two most conservative parties here. More anti-gun legislation has been enacted during Mr. Howard's leadership than at any other time since Federation in 1901. The man is a disgraceful political populist who would sell any 'minority' group in this country out for seats in Parliament.
The Greens hate firearms more than Mr. Howard, and the Labour Party will hate them more than that if it will add seats for them in Parliament:banghead:

On Iraq, the media once again are united in their anti-war stance, but they also loathe G.W. with a passion difficult for a non-Democrat American to understand. The talking heads on the various ABC programmes blather on ad nauseum about Bush and America's 'cowboy' stance to the world.:rolleyes:

I don't think most Aussies really are that wound up about the Iraq war, but they have no balance or counterpoint whatsoever from the Australian media coverage.:barf:

Me, I'm an American-Kiwi-Australian citizen and I voted for G.W.
(in Florida, absentee...it really counted!), so I have lots of entertaining discussions about the issues with Australians:D

[Deadman]

' so I have lots of entertaining discussions about the issues with Australians '


Fallingblock you must have ALOT of patience ;)

[Lone Star]

Gary-

This is probably going to make me look really dumb, but I thought that Montevideo was in Uruguay. Is there one also in Argentina?

I did do a check in my college Latin American history book, but couldn't find a Monte Video. May still be one...was Uruguay once part of Argentina?

Sometimes, an Argie turns up in a gun magazine (letter). One commentated on their M1927 .45 pistols. Knew a LOT about them, too.

Hey: I thunk a thought. Have you asked the Argentine Embassy?

Lone Star

[telewinz]

I am very impressed with CampX's argument. Its valid and something Bush and Powell have not addressed effectively even with our own citizens. I support Bush, and the War against Iraq but I feel most of the justification/evidence will be found after we invade not before. I believe Bush feels this way also and probably has the Intell that proves it. Hate to say it but it does require an amount of trust, something that as a general rule I don't recomend. The World as a whole dislikes that fact that one nation (the US) has the power to do this thing alone...it makes them nervous, resentful and makes them question there own military spending over the past 14 years. They can only talk...they cannot influence the final decision, they are helpless and we are rubbing their faces in it.

I work in West Virginia, does that count as being outside the US?:)

[4v50 Gary]

Lone Star - Come to think of it, you may have a point there. Sorry but I'm fixated on past events right now. When I went to Maryland last month, I had trouble finding Antietam (Sharpsburg) because it wasn't up on modern road maps. Had to find it via Frederick and Hagerstown.

Was Uruguay part of Argentina back in 1807? I'm trying to find out about an incident back when the Brits where fighting the Spaniards in the days of Napoleon. The British were subsequently defeated at Bueno Aires and sent packing.

[T.Stahl]

Yes, I'm living in Germany's south-west.

Gun-laws? Well, a lot is available, as long as you can prove a "need" for it by being in the right association and participating in the right shooting disciplines.

The laws will change by April 1st, both to the better and worse. On the one hand evil black rifles will no longer be illegal and some old military self-loading rifles will no longer be have to be de-militarized (limited to 5 rounds, sights limited to not more than 300m,...). On the other hand they are doubling the time you'll have to be a member of a club before you can apply for a license, raise the minimum age for anything but .22lrs and olympic O/U shotguns to 21 and will ask for a medical-psychological examination if you aren't yet 25.

[muddyboots]

The citadel (Fortaleza) still exists on Montevideo Bay. Uruguay was originally a part of Argentina but became independent at about the time of all other Latin American nations during the Napoleonic Wars. The British were of assistance in this and had a lot to do with building the country after independence. One of the major thoroughfares in the city is the Bulevar Gran Bretana.

I do not know who led the country in 1807, but the father (George Washington) of the country is Jose Artigas. His tomb is in downtown Montevideo.

[M67]

Gary, Was Uruguay part of Argentina back in 1807? Sort of. At that time it was called Banda Oriental, the East Bank (of the river Uruguay) and was a part of the viceroyalty RÃ*o de la Plata, which also included modern Argentina. You may want to include those names in any searches for information about this period.

And talking about furriners, I'm one too. :)

Norwegian gun laws are stricter than some places in the US, but better than some other places, I think. And better than most places in Europe. There is registration and there is a "need" requirement like in Germany, see T.Stahl's post above. Anyone (certifiable nutcases and criminals excepted) can own a gun, there are just a few hoops to jump through.

A nation of riflemen, you say? The largest Norwegian rifle shooting organization has over 180,000 members and the national matches held by that organization usually draws more than 5,000 competitors, the finals are broadcast live on national tv. Not impressed by those ridiculously small numbers? There are less than four and a half million of us. Adjusted for size of population, those numbers would be roughly 12 million and 330,000 respectively, for the US.

Generally speaking we are a bunch of very nice people. We consider ourselves world champions at anything we think it's worth being best at (everything else is just crap anyway). You know how the French think they're the only civilized country on the planet? How Americans think they are the best thing since sliced bread? Well, you are all wrong. Us Norwegians know we are the best in the world. If you disagree with us, we don't even get angry, we just feel sorry for you and hope that you will some day come around and see the world as it really is. :)

[telewinz]

Go for it:D

[Sheslinger]

A lot of people there seem to think that Bush is going to war mostly for the oil and to revenge his father.

I am not saying this is my point of view but thought you would want to know what a lot of Russians think.

Sheslinger

[NonServiam]

M67, your post seems to indicate that people around the world don't know we're world champions. Is it really so?:p

As to the Norwegian opinion regarding Iraq, I'd have to say it is pretty anti-war. There have been large demonstrations against the war, gathering large masses of people. The anti-war alliance is pretty broad, from the extreme left to the church and various Christian organisations. The government supports the US with reservations, but there are forces at work wanting us to join the French/German fraction of NATO. The media is mostly very sceptic towards a war, and there's a great deal of Bush-bashing going on.

We even have a small contingent of "human shields" down in Iraq, who must have misread the definition of "shield". They are now going home, after they found out the Irqis were placing them where the US might actually bomb :rolleyes: . I also heard on the radio one of the shields explaining she got to talk to a civilan Iraqi in private, who asked them to get the hell out of there so they could welcome the Americans who would rid them of their dictator ...

Anyway, those are basically the Norwegian sentiments. Please do not mistake them to automatically belong to me or any other Norwegian forumites. Or any other Norwegians you should meet upon your path, for that matter ...

Myself, I'm not too fond of the idea of war, but I'm more or less on your side in this. I'm not sure your government is intervening for all "the right reasons", but that doesn't really matter as much as the consequences. I think both the Iraqi people and the region as a whole would be better off without Saddam. Secondly, I don't like this fractioning of NATO. "One for all, all for one" should still be our motto.

In general, I have a strong dislike of appeasement politics. My grandfather wore the "broken rifle" (the symbol of the peace movement) proudly on his lapel in the '20s, and my father had to pay for that as a young man in German-occupied Norway. My father has asked me not to repeat the family mistake. I'll honor that.

[Lennyjoe]

South Korea.

From what I gather here no one can own handguns. Have seen a local outdoor shooting range that I plan on visiting when the weather gets above 40 darn degrees.

Got around 3/4 of a mil (give or take) Northern military members pointing all kinds of weapons south. Count 37,000 Americans and a few hundred thousand (+ or - ) South Korean soldiers and the odds are really against us. Thank God for airpower.

[ahenry]

When I went to Maryland last month, I had trouble finding Antietam (Sharpsburg) because it wasn't up on modern road maps. Had to find it via Frederick and Hagerstown. Now that was a battlefield! Antietam was one of my favorite battlefields if not my actual favorite. The Cornfield, the Bloody Lane, Burnsides Bridge, all are something to see. What other battle resulted in nine times the number of Americans killed than on D-day? What other battle resulted in the deaths of six Generals? Where else did such a tiny force hold up such a large force as at Burnside Bridge? And where else did a foot army advance to battle as fast as Hills army did? Where else did a single brigade suffer so many lost as the Texas Brigade at Millers Cornfield[/i]? Walking this battlefield is sobering and chilling.

I wish I had known you were going, Sharpsburg Arsenal is the best place to buy Civil War memorabilia. Best prices, best selection (especially if you’re interested in artillery), best all the way around.

[Marko Kloos]

Moved to Legal & Political.

[anchored]

Used to live in Japan

No handguns, unless you're in the Yakuza (Mafia).
Shotguns are OK, but very expensive ($750 for a used Rem. 870 at my local gunshop). Not much to hunt though: maybe deer in the north and wild boar in the southern hills.

I didn't hear anyone who had a real anti-gun opinion, but everyone had a curiosity. I had a few students who said their lowered crime rate was a result of no guns, until I pointed out a few statistical anomalies. Then I pointed out that the reason they don't have guns is because WE disarmed them after WWII so they couldn't fight back against our occupation, then somehow we convinced them it was for their own good.

Interesting thing though, you can't own a gun of anyone in your family for several generations back is a felon.

[trooper]

In addition to T.Stahl's info:

Concealed carry for civilians is very rare in Germany because you have to prove to the authorities that you're personally being threatened in order to get a permit.

If you're in law enforcement you can carry your service weapon off-duty (lucky me :) ).

As for Iraq: I think I answered that question thoroughly an another thread. Most people over here also suspect some not-so-humanitarian motives on GWB's side.


Regards,

Trooper

[anchored]

Where in germany are you Trooper? I'm thinking of applying for a job in Heidelberg. Do you think it's anti-American enough over there right now for that to be a bad idea?

[trooper]

Anchored:

I live the state of Brandenburg in a small town close to the German-Polish border (it's about 90 minutes away from Berlin).

I don't know much about Heidelberg as I'm Northern German by birth and by choice :) , but it is said to be a nice, lively university city with lots of good bars and restaurants as well as some interesting historical neighbourhoods.

About the "worst" thing that could happen to you would be some people asking you what your government is up to and what you think about it. As I said, while a lot of people are critical about the Bush administration the usually hold no grudge of any kind against Americans as a people.

Besides this, the US HQ has been in Heidelberg for decades so the locals are used to you guys.

If you can get a good job, why not...


Regards,

Trooper

[jimbo]

Yes, I live in a place beyond the United States without the benefits of Freedom of Speech, the Right to Keep and Bear Arms and many benefits of the US Constitution.

It's called California.

[CampX]

Finally getting back to this post after a few days away from the computer, and I'm happy to see that other countries are also expressing some concerns over what ulterior motives George Jr may have with invading Iraq. I find that in forums such as these, if you swim against the current you take a real pounding by the people who's only answer to the world's problem comprise of "Nuke the pricks". Smart.


Where in germany are you Trooper? I'm thinking of applying for a job in Heidelberg. Do you think it's anti-American enough over there right now for that to be a bad idea?

Does anyone see the problem with this statement by Anchored? Sorry to make an example of you, but I see this as really ironic. To come from the proudest and mightiest nation in the world, and to be afraid of going out-of-country to another civilized and democratic nation.....is this why so many Americans sew Canadian flags on their backpacks while hitch-hiking or traveling in Europe, or other places? While you are busy waving your flag and feeling so mighty, are you really ashamed of America because of the compromising and dangerous position that your leaders put you into? Such as this "Showdown:Iraq". Funny how you hate being portrayed as cowboys, but then your own media uses, in glaring headlines, cowboy terminology to trivialize a possible precursor to WW3. Just wonderin'.

Anyways, I'm gonna do something very politically incorrect (if you live in Canada) and that is buy a handgun this week. Screw the Liberals and their 1billion dollar colossal failure known as The Registry. Always wanted a .45.