Question For Correctional Officers


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Bartholomew Roberts
December 6, 2004, 04:40 PM
In an ideal world, we wouldn't allow people we couldn't trust with firearms to wander through our communities and families. Unfortunately, this isn't such a world, which is one of the reasons I currently support denying firearm ownership for people whose past behavior indicates they are more likely to abuse their rights to the detriment of others. I understand not everyone shares this view; but I don't really want to debate that subject in this thread.

However, I am curious in hearing suggestions from those who do work in the correctional system about how we might get closer to an ideal system. I know we have several members who work in corrections and was interested in their thoughts on the matter.

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Preacherman
December 6, 2004, 08:45 PM
OK, lessee now...

I think that non-violent felons (i.e. those who have not perpetrated violence, or engaged in the types of crime that can potentially lead to violence, such as burglary of an occupied dwelling, or did not use any weapon in the commission of their crimes) should have their RKBA rights restored automatically as soon as their full sentence has been served (including prison time, probation, parole, etc. - as soon as they're officially released from all forms of supervision).

Other felons - permanent, lifetime ban, with additional sanctions (up to and including life imprisonment without parole) if they ever violate the ban. No exceptions.

Lone_Gunman
December 6, 2004, 08:55 PM
Other felons - permanent, lifetime ban, with additional sanctions (up to and including life imprisonment without parole) if they ever violate the ban. No exceptions.

Why?

Because they are still dangerous? If so, shouldnt they be in jail?

Because it will assure us they won't have access to guns? If they want guns, they can find them whether they acquire them legally or not.

Preacherman
December 7, 2004, 12:29 AM
Why?

Because they are still dangerous? If so, shouldnt they be in jail?
Yes, they probably are still dangerous: but we can't keep them in jail if they've already served their sentences. At least, with such a prohibition, we can put them away again if they're caught in possession.

Because it will assure us they won't have access to guns? If they want guns, they can find them whether they acquire them legally or not.
Of course they can get guns if they want to. No law is going to prevent them making an illegal purchase. However, the law can put them away again if they do, whether or not they commit any more crimes with their gun(s).

Standing Wolf
December 7, 2004, 12:33 AM
I was a prison guard for awhile quite a few years ago.

I think everybody deserves a second chance; by the same token, nobody deserves a third chance.

WEPS
December 7, 2004, 12:37 AM
I don't see a problem with ex cons owning a firearm after they have served their time and have stayed out of trouble . I believe everybody has the right to protect their life regardless of their past. Not everybody will agree with this but that's ok, It's just my personal opinion.

GAMALOT
December 7, 2004, 01:09 AM
I retired from Corrections and was a Weapons Training Officer for most of my career.
I think I want to take a hard line stance on this "RIGHT"
The vast majority of felons are sentenced for a crime commited that they got caught for. It is a well documented fact that most convicts got away with many more offenses then they were ever imprisoned for or even charged with.
Although I do believe there are some who would learn from a mistake and decide to live as law abbiding citizens upon release, I am not willing to accept a blanket reinstatment of the right to bear arms for those who were only caught for non violent offenses.
I firmly believe in the "RIGHT" for all law abbiding citizens to possess arms and I must stand on the side of caution where my "RIGHTS" are concerned.
Once you cross the line and can no longer be called "law abbiding", Your right to have guns should be gone forever.
This should be a very real reason for all who even think of commiting a crime to re-think what they will lose if caught.
At the very least, I think a felon who wants his right reinststed should have to pettition the courts and prove his worthiness.

Stickjockey
December 7, 2004, 01:47 AM
At the very least, I think a felon who wants his right reinststed should have to pettition the courts and prove his worthiness.

My only problem with this is that it's supposed to be that way right now. However, our .gov has determined that they "aren't currently allocating moneys for administration of this function." A polite way of saying, at least as far as I'm concerned, "Wedon'wanna." So those who do go astray, learn their lesson, and, in the words of the old song, straighten up and fly right, are still treated as second-class citizens no matter what their transgressions or history since serving their sentence.

SMOKEY
December 7, 2004, 01:52 AM
I work for the WI Departmant of Corrections. I've worked in every classificaion from minimum to maximum and juvies. After 24 years I am a bit salty. There are people that are born bad. There are also good people who make bad mistakes. There are consequences for our mistakes and some good people will suffer these consequences however, is it worth having another victim at the hands of a bad person who was given a second chance. Does a good person who made a bad mistake have a propensity for making the same mistake twice? I agree with GAMALOT, one strike and your out.

There are no easy answers. We will not move to a better system until society addresses the problems that are consuming us. I sometimes wonder if we have not crested the apex of this great democracy and are now heading for revolution. I would not want to be young again and entering this world. I fear for my children and my grandchildren.

It costs the taxpayers of WI about $23,000 per year per inmate. There are over 20,000 inmates in this state. And then there are costs for supervision of parolees. Soon The DOC will consume one fifth of gross revenues. And I see our roads deteriorating. This isn't working, yet I watch the news and read the paper and can't believe many of the light sentences that are given out.

I could go on and on.

GAMALOT
December 7, 2004, 05:03 AM
You sound like me Smokey;

27 years and had enough! You call it "SALTY". I called it a giant case of BAD ATTITUDE.
Hope you can get out after 25 like we could. I have never once regreted retireing.

NavajoNPaleFace
December 7, 2004, 12:38 PM
Most convicted career criminals see going to jail and prison as an occupational hazard and, with recitivism in the 93 per centum range most will return to prison.

Now.....does anyone want their next crime involve them and possibly with a firearm being used? I sure don't.

Many criminals are released by vavrious means but the expiration of their sentences is the most common method. This occurs because they have reached that legal time in their sentence they must be released....not because we want to release them.

The majority of the others are released on parole (state cases) and most likely due to sentiment of the Parole panel members.

But, in all said releasing criminals is primarily done because we need room for the next wave of "I'm innocent. I did nothing"s.

My vote is a firm HELL NO for restoring gun rights to those felons who prayed on the innocent public.

And, I'd just as soon not hear their crap arguement, "But it was a victimless crime." Yeah, my arse it was, you idiot. Every crime has at least one victim! :D

armoredman
December 7, 2004, 01:24 PM
I don't have near that many years in Corrections, but I have a few. Rights restoral should follow the model set up that would be working if COngress had not defunded it. There are a very few inmates I would not worry about being legally armed outside, and many more I don't trust with a staple. As was stated, we can't keep them inside when thier sentance runs out. Vote to replace your liberal judges, vote to replace lawyers in Congress who make stupid laws and throw money away on worthless programs, (midnight basketball?), vote to replace local politicians who refuse to enforce laws, or enact even more ridiculous ordinances. There is where you begin. Stop wasting our money by shoveling it out the door to third world countries, in return for vague promises to pay in 2350. Stop entitlement programs that hand out bushels of money for nothing. Spend that money on putting teeth back in the justice system, respect and learning back in the schools, and money back in the pocket of the working man. Treat drug dealers as what they are - death merchants who are killing our kids. If inmates are given life sentance without possability of parole, eliminate them. No point in supporting them the rest of thier natural lives behind bars, is there? Just an escape risk from someone who has nothing to lose.....
Last death penalty should be carried out swiftly. One utomatic appeal, (anyone can screw something up), but if a second conviction comes back. particularly if DNA evidense is present, execute them within 2 hours of the verdict.
I guess I had better state my views are my own, and don't reflect any opinion by my Dept or state.

wmenorr67
December 7, 2004, 02:15 PM
If someone is convicted of "White Coller" crime I believe that they should not lose their RKBA. However, if someone is convicted of any violent crime with or without a weapon they will never own a firearm legally again. That should include any young punk kid. If convicted of violent crime after the age of 14 you know the difference between right and wrong and should know the consciquences of doing wrong. Try them as an adult and punish them the same.

Mrs. Armoredman
December 8, 2004, 01:00 PM
Ya know you ask questions directed at the Correction Officers. You ask what it's like for them to work with bad guys. There is one question you didn't ask.

What is it like for the Correction officers wifes. The other side of the coin that is. We may not have to work with the inmates but we have to put up with all the poltics of the job and any other issue that comes up. It is not easy being married to a CO or a Corrections Sgt. It is always good to watch programs on Cort TV when they show different prisions and talk to all the other Sgts,LT's and Captions. It helped me deal with what Armoredman does so I can try to relate to what he does every day. Some of y'all think about this when your wife/girlfriend asks you how your day was and if anything may be bothering you.

R.H. Lee
December 8, 2004, 01:05 PM
Most convicted career criminals see going to jail and prison as an occupational hazard and, with recitivism in the 93 per centum range most will return to prison Right. And here in California they call prisons "Correctional Facilities". :rolleyes: Oxymoronic.

GAMALOT
December 8, 2004, 01:23 PM
Mrs. Armoredman, Your point is well taken!
Would I ask wife #1, #2 or #3???
All too often the support network for those who do the dirtiest jobs are forgotten. Usually by the ones doing the job!
All I can say is to hang in there if you can and work toward getting him retired so you both can Finally begin to enjoy life. Do not allow him to stay in this totally negative environment a minute longer then he has to. You will notice a major change when he is finally able to shake that prison stink off and RELAX.
I have never, NOT ONCE, looked back, missed it or been sorry I left. If necessary, I would be the greeter at Wal-Mart before I would go back to those HUMAN DUMPS.
Fitting title, Mr. ARMOREDMAN!

armoredman
December 8, 2004, 01:42 PM
Actually, that came from 8.5 years in armoredtrucks before DOC....22 years 'til retirement, unless I want to opt at at 20. We do have a 20 year retirement now.....

GAMALOT
December 9, 2004, 01:04 AM
Armoredman, Start now and apply for all training available. Get yourself trained to the fullest in every aspect of the job. Becme a trainer in your dept. You could teach weapons or hand to hand combat or even report writting but get into doing the training so you can begin to realize some satisfaction for what you do.
Going to work every day to coddle the cons and give them all the perks the Administration can think up is totally disheartening. You will feel like what you do is for no good and be 100% right.
Make yourself invaluable to the administration, take all the promotional exams and the promotions when and if they come. You are already spinning your wheels and getting nowhere fast. I am figuring you for right around 30 and you need more respect from the job then you are feeling now. It will get much worse if you do not begin to make a concious move up quick! You will become very angry when some 24 year old AH who you had no use for becomes your supervisor and you will find this job nothing but stress.
Get off your duff and get moving UP so it has some positive meaning or GET OUT.
You are already feeling what we all have been thru so make a decision and do what is best for you. If I am reading you right, you will find the administration is worse then the cons. The only way to beat them is to join them because you can do it better. Becomming a Sgt, Lt. or Capt. may go against your grain but it is the only reward in this job so do it.
Feel free to PM me if you need any help.

GAMALOT
December 9, 2004, 01:46 AM
Mr. Roberts, You asked how we might make this a more ideal world regarding convicted criminals.
I think I can answer this in three words.
ENFORCE THE LAWS-
Most convicted fellons ended up in prison after many, many run ins with the law. I firmly believe if we were to hammer all the young punks the very first time and every time thereafter, we would change their ways before they hit fellony status.
This slap on the wrist attitude where we plea bargin every offense just shows the punks that we are willing to put up with their crap. They get to a point thinking we are not going to hurt them and they can get away with just about anything.
Fortunately for me, I kept running into my father every time I stepped out of line. Most of these punks either don't have a father around or he is worthless. We need to show them quick and early that we will put a major crimp in their style immediately. Sadly, the old reform schools went down the tubes and ended up being nothing more then young criminal training camps.
They were worse comming out then when they went in.
School is the place to start and the way to do it is to make it perfectly clear to the parents. If you will not teach your children respect, WE WILL and with the full backing of the law. Stop them dead in their tracks the very first time they screw up, make it hurt really bad, give them youthful offender status and make it perfectly clear- YOU GOT YOUR "ONE" FREE CHANCE.
The first thing I would do is enact a law that says " You don't get out of school until you graduate". No quiting, you have to get the diploma to get out of here.
Second thing would be to fine the parents every time the kid does not show for school with out a Dr's note.
We force them to come and we force them to stay until they learn.
Kind of like saying "shut up and do your job, this aint no game"!
This is the way Knucklehead kids learn best.
I kind of doubt that I will get the School principals job any time soon but I would bet my school would get better grades then the ones around here.

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