SW 1911 Safety Issue/Question

One of the local ranges had a SW show today, so I test fired a SW 1911, liked it and bought one!

Got it home and noticed with the hammer down the safety could move up 1/8 inch+ (but not fully up) and stay there so the slide is locked. Then I noticed I could cock the gun with the safety in this position, pull the trigger (engaging the grip safety of course) and the hammer will drop as in firing. Meanwhile the safety stays where it was and the slide remains locked. I don't know if the gun will fire with the safety in this partial position; I've only dry fired it, but it seems to me that this condition could cause a problem if the gun will fire like this.

I called the shop where I purchased it and walked a salesman through it with him on the same gun; his worked the same way.

I know the condition is one that will generally not occur, but in an emergency, Murphy's Law prevails. I'm a new shooter, so your thoughts on this subject are greatly appreciated.

<added after I read the manual>: the manual does warn about this condition being confused with safety-on, but since it still might shoot, is this a problem?

Thanks,
Zenon :confused:

Drop a regular old #2 lead pencil- with an eraser end- down the barrel, eraser end first and try to dry(eraser) fire the gun. If the hammer is striking the firing pin in a normal manner it will propel the pencil several feet out of the barrel- the gun will fire. This is my definitive Series 80 reassembly test.....

motorep,
the pencil test shows that the gun fires with this partial safety condition engaged. I don't know if I should be concerned since the slide is locked, apparently from inside.
z

A weapon that (mal?)functions in this manner should not be relied upon for self defense until corrected. However, I'm not sure about any other safety issues this condition may cause. I imagine that recoil would be pretty stout, though, assuming that whatever is locking the slide has sufficient strength...

George

Interesting..

I'm not a big fan of manual "active" safeties, as I don't need yet another item to think about when I need it in an emergancy... This is pretty interesting though, have you tried contacting S&W and asking them about it?

blink squared, it's the weekend here... He could call tomorrow.:p

twoblink,

S&W gets called first thing Monday.

Interestingly, I've been asking around about 1911's and was told that some models do this. I have a SA 1911 in 9mm and it doesn't, but it doesn't have the firing pin safety. Also interesting is that the manual has a warning about the "partial" safety movement.

This is a good exercise in 1911 education, I'm a newbie shooter and that means I don't know what I don't know...

Z

I have a tight "match" 1911 built of mostly government arsenal parts. It does the half-safe thing as well.

Luckily, that's one just one of several issues that would prevent me from carrying it before one of the other guns.

Every single 1911 I have ever held does this exact same thing. Should not be of concern but definitely take it to the range. Take ANYTHING to the range before you stake your life on it.

GT

Like Tarpley said,

Every 1911 I've ever seen does that.

The 1911 design is NOT meant to have the safety engaged when the hammer is DOWN. This is due to the fact that the pistol CANNOT ACCIDENTALLY or UNINTENTIONALLY FIRE with the hammer DOWN. It's single action, so even if you grip it and squeeze the trigger, nothing will happen.

Don't worry what the safety does when the hammer is down. Worry about what it does when the hammer is cocked.

Thanks All,

Looks like Zenon has some 1911 learnin' to do.

I guess my big concern was leaving a round chambered in a safe or drawer hammer down and having to cock it then fire it with this condition, but I should probably develop the habit of thumb swiping the safety down before firing anyway. Otherwise I think maybe I'll just develop a habit to rack the slide when needed.

I guess my big concern was leaving a round chambered in a safe or drawer hammer down and having to cock it then fire it with this conditionLeave it cocked. It won't hurt the spring. First, it's a whole lot more risky to manually lower the safety on a live round than it is to just leave it cocked.

Second, carrying and practicing with the gun in condition 1 but having it in a lock box in condition 2 is a bad idea. If you are keeping a gun for self protection (whether loaded in a lock box or in a holster on your belt), decide how you are going to keep it (condition 1, 2 or 3), then always keep it that way and train that way. Training and carrying condition 1, but putting it in a lock box condition 2 assumes that at 0-dark-thirty, when a couple goblins have broken into your house, the dog is barking and your wife is screaming, and you're still half asleep that somehow you're going to remember to cock the gun manually, even though you train at the range condition 1. Seems like a great chance for you to forget to cock the gun and sit there pulling on the trigger with nothing happening just when you really need the gun to go bang.

Remember the KISS principle. Train like you fight, fight like you train.

I will not swear to it but I think there is something wrong with a clone that you can move the safety with the hammer down. Esp, if it can block the slide. Don't recall that you can move the safety with pistol uncocked on my Colt autos.

BigG got me to thinking because I couldn't remember either. Just checked my SA MilSpec, with the hammer down I can wiggle the safety just a little bit but not enough to lock the slide.

If somebody gets their Kuhnhausen book out on the cutaway photos you can see how the safety works. It actually has to be cocked for the slide lock safety to move up into its position. Sounds like a misfit part (they do require fitting) imho. A slight amount of wiggle is no prob but if you can move it a perceptible amount and it STAYS where you leave it, it ain't right imho.

I will not swear to it but I think there is something wrong with a clone that you can move the safety with the hammer down

Nah, you can do it on my Kimber, too. As others have said, it seems to be just an artifact of the design that the safety will move up slighly even with the hammer down.

All,

My SA 9mm loaded is just as tight too. Calls to S&W, friends, and other posts all indicated that some 1911s do this and others don't.

This S&W 1911 does, be that as it may, I still like it a lot. I guess this is a case of newbie 1911 nervousness.

I did finally read the manual and there are warnings about this in two places :banghead:

My problem is that the it looks like the gun will fire with the safety in the half-way position. In that case, you would likely get a FTE as the slide crashes into the safety lever.

Is that how they all are, or not?

I was right. The Colts will not move other than a nominal amount and when you let go of the safety the plunger pushes it down to its lowest extent. I would wonder that it is thought normal. If you go to disassemble the safety it is in the mid position that it comes out, i.e., half way between on and off. :eek: