Symbolism of the AK series, turn you on or off?


PDA






Boats
December 8, 2004, 04:00 PM
Like the headline says. I think about getting an AK, but I balk because it was the rifle of the enemy in various spats. For probably cosmetic/PC concerns, a lot of shops won't/don't stock them. What do you think? I understand that some look at the AR as the "gubmint" weapon, a sort of symbol of oppression.

If you enjoyed reading about "Symbolism of the AK series, turn you on or off?" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!
buzz_knox
December 8, 2004, 04:22 PM
Symbolism is irrelevant.

Bwana John
December 8, 2004, 04:24 PM
It is a tool, thats all.
So you never going to get a Mauser?
We wernt so friendly with England for a while, no Enfields for you.
I think the problem lies with what the tool is best for.
"AK-47, when you got to kill every M*****F***** in the room."

Bigfoot
December 8, 2004, 04:25 PM
"Symbolism is irrelevant".

Agreed. I like my Chinese SKS. Heck I even own some of Bill Rugers guns. :evil:

cslinger
December 8, 2004, 04:49 PM
Hell part of the reason I like AK's are they are so recognizable to so many people. Almost like the the language of the 12 gauge. Staring down an AK is frightening sight especially with that big ole' trademark "bananna" magazine.

I say if you are going to have a gun to scare the sheeple might as well do it up right. :D

Boats
December 8, 2004, 05:06 PM
I won't be getting a Mauser because I am left handed. S-R K31 with left hand op rod for the striaght pull is the mil-surp for me. :evil:

BTW, I am going to probably get an AK at some point, but I don't agree that symbolism is irrelevant. To some degree it is, whether it is public perception or the buyer's. What keeps me attracted to the AK is partly what it represents to the antis--their worst nightmare. From there, it is a matter of 7.62, 5.45, or 5.56, and that is where I am currently stuck on purchasing one. I should have made it clearer in my first post.

I sometimes just want to get a FAL instead. :D

RooK
December 8, 2004, 05:31 PM
From there, it is a matter of 7.62, 5.45, or 5.56, and that is where I am currently stuck on purchasing one.

You forgot .308. Anyway, symbolism is irrelevant. Plenty of friendly countries used AKs or derivatives: Finland, Israel, and Switzerland (The Sig 500 series is just a pretty AK) come to mind. They're just good, reliable and rugged rifles. Anything else you see is an image projected by the media beyond actual fact.

kfranz
December 8, 2004, 05:32 PM
Get the FN first. AK's are fine and dandy, but the FAL is finer and dandier.... :)

Harry Tuttle
December 8, 2004, 05:55 PM
just make sure you get one from the left side of Asia

Strong like bull,
Smart like rock!

Coronach
December 8, 2004, 06:01 PM
I dislike them, because of the symbolism...but I also readily admit that it is quite irrelevant. It doesn't make them any better or worse, or function any better or worse.

It was the weapon of choice for a thoroughly evil empire, and there is something about it that is forever tainted, to me. And, likewise, the M1 Garand will always be loved by me, for the same purely symbolic reasons. And yes, I do own one. Of each. ;)

Mike

Bridger
December 8, 2004, 06:09 PM
WOLVERINES!!!!!1 :cool:

Risasi
December 8, 2004, 06:41 PM
How many who have a problem with the AK also own one or more import cars?

Not trying to criticize, just get a head count. Certainly the AK is the epitomy of all that's evil in the world. And likewise the "real american" would never touch that ricer crap.

I guess the only thing I would like to add is man truly does look on the outward appearance. Again not a criticism, just a statement of fact. I personally like to take advantage of this fact. If I can appear what I am not people might feel threatened when I am not threatening, or vice versa, they might underestimate me when I have something more serious under the hood :D

In fact this is true of one of my cars. I have a '92 Ford Taurus SHO that I adore. Other than the SHO stickers, from the outside it looks like another early model Ford POS. But with the many various tweaks and adjustments it's got about 235 ft lb at the wheels, and is turning about 270HP at the flywheel, 5-speed stick. This spring I hope to lighten the curb weight to about 3000lb, and drop in a torque sensing limited slip differential. As it is now I can be real competitive with late 80's 5.0 Mustangs, and older V8 camaros (stock, of course). And if it's highway I redline at over 140MPH. Dumb 16 year kids in their Rustangs/Bowties hate me. (BTW: Who owns a GTP? I'm trying to spank you guys off the line :evil: )

Anyhoo, I said all that because my SHO has a Yamaha engine, a BMW tranny, and Ford got help with the unibody from Lotus. I was making fun of one of my coworkers who drives a Camry until he pointed out his car was more American than mine was!!!

Same with the AK, if you build the thing out of every American part you can is it still really an AK?

(P.S. I really am interested in the AK hater/but ricer owner cut)

Gewehr98
December 8, 2004, 06:41 PM
But, all said and done, it's a tool, nothing more, nothing less.

I've got safes full of WWI and WWII Mausers, P-08 Lugers, SKS rifles, VZ-52 rifles, CZ-52 pistols, and one rifle that's very symbolic of an oppresive regime: A Trapdoor Springfield. (Think about that for a second) I don't lose any sleep over these tools, any more than my Sears Craftsman wrench set or my Bulgarian and Romanian AK's. ;)

Bartholomew Roberts
December 8, 2004, 06:58 PM
It is less the symbolism and more the ergonomics for me. From the giant clickety-clack safety to the rock&lock mag system, I just do not like most of their controls and ergos.

Shooter973
December 8, 2004, 06:59 PM
A little more than symbolism to me!! I was shot at a few times by these weapons and also by SKS's .... I have absolutely no desire to own one, I won't give my money up to buy a Commie or former Commie weapon.. Just got a hard on about them! :cuss: :fire: I guess it makes a difference after being on the wrong end of these weapons!!! :mad:

Trebor
December 8, 2004, 07:07 PM
AK's are symbols of a failed system.

I treasure my East German Makarov as a relic of the cold war. I'd love to have a real AK for exactly the same reason.

MrMurphy
December 8, 2004, 07:08 PM
Yeah, it does have some "Commie" symbolism, but as Mr. Kalashnikov said, he designed it to be a solid, reliable rifle for Russians to defend their country with... he didn't have anything to do with the export half (he's still pissed at the Chinese).


Finland, Israel, Switzerland, and almost half of the guys on OUR side in Iraq, excluding friendly Iraqis, are using AKs (Poland, Bulgaria, Ukrainians, Romanians, etc) and Soviet-designed equipment, because that's what their country uses.


It's a tool. Get over it. Otherwise, I'd never own or shoot a Mauser, Luger, Walther, Arisaka, etc. But I have or did or do.

Dmack_901
December 8, 2004, 07:18 PM
In a way that symbolism is why I want one. Not that I was to like evil AK man, but rather prove that AKs arn't bad and the onwers of them don't go shooting stuff up.

Destructo6
December 8, 2004, 07:59 PM
Lots of good things have come from bad places.

You can even call it a symbol of communism's failure. The inventor, a patriot, benefitted only mildly. Many of the licensees have now turned their backs on the originating country, now chambering these for a NATO cartridge, etc.

Anyway, they are fun and a piece of history, like a STG44 or Arisaka.

goon
December 8, 2004, 08:03 PM
Flag of Mozambique (http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/flags/mz-flag.html)

The AK means different things to different people.
To me, it is a solid and durable rifle.
To these guys, it apparently means much more.

Mannlicher
December 8, 2004, 08:26 PM
Makes no difference to me. A gun is a tool, nothing more.

motorep
December 8, 2004, 08:40 PM
The symbolism does matter to me. I wouldn't own one. Purely subjective on my part, I know. Just relates to my time in history. The little people from the North used them to kill my friends. I expect that some of them feel the same regarding M16-types.

Dave Markowitz
December 8, 2004, 08:54 PM
Think of an AK as a trophy of the Cold War.

DMK
December 8, 2004, 09:22 PM
The symbolism means squat to me other then it being somewhat interesting trivia. Its not the weapon, but the ideology that makes somebody a terrorist or a communist. I own a Garand and an AR. That doesn't make me identify with being a Marine.

I generally prefer the Western rifles over the Soviet rifles for purely functional and ergonomic reasons. Specifically, the AK is crude with many sharp edges, has poor ergonomics and has poor sights. Of course, it is reliable and handy.

I just prefer shooting the FAL, AR and Garand over the AK and SKS. On the other hand, the former rifles are much more expensive than the latter(and more expensive to shoot) so I guess you get what you pay for.

Arkady
December 9, 2004, 12:43 AM
I couldn't care less about its symbolism.

It is a tool. It is accurate enough, powerful enough, and cheap enough to fit most of my needs in a tool.

Tamara
December 9, 2004, 02:11 AM
Some symbols are more symbolic than others. Maybe I'm desensitized by working around them all the time, but to me they're just guns, cruder than some, with bigger mags than others, but just guns nonetheless.

Further, all these AK's on the market now are just sillhouette guns; as closely related to the actual arms of the Evil Empire as a NASCAR Taurus is to that beater in the Budget Rent-A-Car lot. I own actual milsurps that were actually wielded by real live Chicoms, Russkies, Nazis, Japanese troops bent on rapine, imperialistic Brits, wannabe-imperialist Yanks, and many others. All they do is add color and depth to the museum. :)

yesterdaysyouth
December 9, 2004, 02:52 AM
usually the sight of any AK clone gives me a big smile, but the latest wave of wasr-10's i've witnessed just about made me cry...
:barf:

sorta like a gold plated DE.... :p

triggertime
December 9, 2004, 06:28 AM
The AK is appealing because of its symbolism. It exemplifies the rise and fall of communism. Not only that, but it is the prerequisite 'evil black rifle'. It is the epitome of everything the Schumerites, Feinsteinites and the Bradyites despise. The mere sight of one causes the typical garden variety anti-gunner to clench their sphincter while they fight to maintain all bowel and bladder control. Those facts alone should intrigue any gun enthusiast into buying one.

Feanaro
December 9, 2004, 08:51 AM
Neither. I'm not a big AK(Although it's somewhere on my eight ream list of "Firearms and Accessories I Want") but it has nothing to do with who did or didn't use it. A tool has no agenda, no idealogy. But even if the symbolism did matter to some extent, you don't have to like something to admire it's positive qualities. A man can admire a Nazi or Communist soldier for, say, bravery without liking the things that Nazism stands for.

benEzra
December 9, 2004, 09:22 AM
The "AK-47" sitting in my gun safe is a symbol of freedom, not oppression. It means I am a free citizen who can own a really cool-looking rifle. As far as its outward resemblance to a former Soviet AKM, that would make it more or less a trophy of the Cold War, not an endorsement of the Soviet system. If you don't like that, get a SAR-2 (AK-74 lookalike) instead, since the AK-74 is the current Russian infantry rifle, and the Russians are now more or less on our side... Or trick out an AK lookalike to make it look like an Israeli Galil, if it really bothers you.

BTW, the same considerations would apply in spades to the SKS, since non-Chinese SKS's are REAL combloc rifles, not just lookalikes (Russian SKS's made at Tula even have the star on the receiver...). Or combloc Mosin-Nagants, or Arisakas, or German Mausers...

The Kalashnikov action is a fantastic design. Kalashnikovs are fantastically cool looking. They are legendary for their reliability. I like them for all of those reasons.

rbernie
December 9, 2004, 10:30 AM
As has been pointed out, the Finns adopted an AK design (since it was good at functioning in cold weather) and Israel designed and built an AK clone (since it was good at functioning in sandy conditions).

So you can always look at an AK, squint kinda hard, and picture it as a Galil or Valmet.

mustanger98
December 9, 2004, 04:45 PM
I never really have thought of the AK from the angle of symbolism. As has been stated, it's a tool and has been used by our friends as well as our enemies. That aside, from my understanding, while American troops have mostly been issued highly accurate rifles, commbloc troops have been issued "bullet hoses" with Minute-of-Tractor-tire accuracy. I like my Garand real well, but if I had to pick up an AK and use it, I wouldn't hesitate to. I'm further reminded of what I heard that in Vietnam some of our guys on special missions used AKs so the sound wouldn't tip of the enemy that it was M16s instead of their issue weapon, therefore our guys and not their's.

13.45
December 9, 2004, 07:00 PM
when i was in usareur, we spent a fair amount of time becoming familiar with combloc weapons. it seemed like a good idea to me (then and now) to become proficient with as many tools as possible, especially since you might need to borrow one from boris someday ;) symbolism really didn't enter into it

Coltdriver
December 9, 2004, 09:26 PM
Boats you pose an interesting question.

I would say that the AK 47 is one of the most powerful symbols of strife and trouble the world over. Well over 55 million of them have been made.

It absolutely has global icon status.

That being said its a damm good tool.

I have seen several pictures of American Soldiers in Iraq weilding them against their former owners. To be perfectly honest if I had to take an AK or an M16 into an urban warfare setting I'd take the AK.

I went and got mine when Clinton threatened to ban us from owning one. So for me it is a symbol of defiance against the Clintonistas. I personally believe Clinton is responsible for the popularity of the make in this country.

Its also a symbol of the failure of the Soviet Union. I saw a special on TV the other night and Mr Kalisnikov was lamenting having no patent on the design.

If its Communist origination bothers you there are lots of other guns to try. You can go through a lot of guns before you have no choice left but the AK!

cgv69
December 9, 2004, 10:17 PM
The AK has a lot of symbolism for me, both good and bad.

The bad is it has been the chosen rifle of almost every enemy the US has had for over what... 50 years if you start the counter when the USSR first adopted it?

The good is I know how much people like F*ckstein don't want me to have one.

The bad has made it low on my "must have" list. The good is what will make sure I buy one soon.

Based on it's own merits, its alright but there are plenty of other battle proven weapons that are just as effective that I prefer more.

c_yeager
December 10, 2004, 05:41 AM
Every AK that you buy is in a small way contributing to the new found capitalism in the formerly communist nations. Not only are they a trophy of war, each sale is another small victory.

Preacherman
December 10, 2004, 08:03 AM
Well, I was fired upon (many times!) by AK's, and hit once. Those memories are not happy. On the other hand, I noticed that AK's and their derivatives seemed to be a lot more dirt- and soldier-proof than many Western designs (e.g. the M16/AR-15 family). So, I own several AK variants, and no M16 variants... YMMV.

pignock
December 10, 2004, 10:31 AM
The US, as far as I know, is the only nation on earth where regular citizens can make a hobby of collecting the weapons (or semi auto faccimilies) of her vanquished foes. So, to me, the K-98 doesn't symbolize naziism, the the arisaka doesn't symbolize imperial japanese attrocities and the AK doesn't symbolize commmunism. They're all just war trophies of our defeated enemies.


Keith

SapperLeader
December 10, 2004, 11:13 AM
I dont own a AK yet(saiga is in my future), but I dont see it as a symbol of anything. Its a interesting robust design, that has been used all over the world. just because some communists and terrorirts have used it, doesnt make it a bad gun. Hipowers were used by germans and saddam but the gun doesnt make me think of nazis and dictators. I would like to own a ak as it seems to be a reliable simple design, and I like simple things. Plus, Feinstein and Schummer dont want me to own one, so that tells me it must be pretty cool. :evil:

Smoke
December 10, 2004, 12:15 PM
I've shot a bunch of AK's owned an SKS and they were nice fun weapons.

Commie thing turned me off. And no I've never owned Japanese cars either.

Coronach said it best.

Smoke

White Horseradish
December 10, 2004, 02:38 PM
Well, you have your symbolism, I have mine. The AK is a rifle that I narrowly missed carrying for real in some warm sandy place like Afghanistan, fulfilling my "internationalist obligations". That does not make me dislike it. I don't own one yet, but I will, as a reminder of what could have happened. Also, as a reminder of what was and what should not be. I also rather enjoy the irony of my having to move to US to be able to have a collection of Russian-designed weapons.

To some of you, AK is a Communist weapon first, to me, it's Russian. The three-line Mosin even more so, considering that it went into service when the worker's paradise was but a dream in diseased brains of a few law sudents.

And, as has been said, symbolism or not, it's a durable and reliable tool.

c_yeager
December 11, 2004, 04:08 AM
Its just a tool like any other. To say that the rifle is in someway "evil" because of the militaries that issued them isnt any different than saying handguns are evil because criminals carry them.

motorep
December 11, 2004, 10:00 AM
I don't see where anyone said they were "evil". The question is if you would own one or not, based on what the design symbolises to you. To me, again, bad juju.

standingbear
December 11, 2004, 11:15 AM
symbolism?bah!

Ive ran into folks that wont shoot on the same range as someone shooting an ak pattern gun.if the ak were never designed,it would just be something else.


I used to think the same way..ak..scary looking..fun..all that jazz but dont attach symbolisms or generalizations to any guns any longer.my father( who bought clintons book..geesh)attaches symbolisms to every scary looking gun he sees,he even went on to say "only terrorists" have such guns when he learned of his grandsons ak purchase and I should be worried he can get into trouble for owning such a "powerful" gun.he lectured me for almost an hour about directing my nephew to the nearest ffl to get one and picking out a good one.

I dont attach symbolisms nor generalizations to any gun.they are simply a piece of hardware that works.If I had the money,ID buy one tomorrow.

dfaugh
December 11, 2004, 12:03 PM
I have Mausers that MIGHT have been shot in anger at my father and uncles during WWII...

And a lost some friends in Vietnam, to AKs and SKSs....

And none of them would EVER say that I or anyone else shouldn't own one, just because they were once used against Americans, any more than I shouldn't own any military weapon, 'because it may have once killed someone (on either side). To them the enemy is the person, not the weapon. The weapon is a tool, nothing more.

Hell, my father (were he still alive) would tell you he fought that war so people COULD have the freedom to do as they choose, including owning the very weapons used against us...

raveon59
December 11, 2004, 01:00 PM
Keeping a symbol of your enemy for historical reference gives a place and time relevance to your life, and in my case it's a constant reminder that the guy in the kitchen of my fav Tai or Vietnamese restaurant, at one time, may have been, much more than just a cook. That said, symbolism be damned. Quality and reliability are my foremost concern. Hell, the weapons I currently own are made by one time C-Block mfgs. A CZ 75B in .40 S&W and a Bulgarian AK. High Quality and high reliability. If my enemies weapons are more reliable then the ones my govt is giving me, I want one and I want my govt to start making what they got. Not only would I have my own supply of ammo and spare parts but I would gleefully relieve my enemy of his. And I second 13.45's statement-Know your enemy.

NMshooter
December 11, 2004, 04:06 PM
It is just a rifle. Now some of the folks that have carried them at various times and places...

beerslurpy
December 12, 2004, 05:24 PM
To me the gun symbolizes the best things about russia rather than the worst. I like how the gun is cheap and reliable but also borrows many of the best features from other guns.

Its meant to be the type of gun you can manufacture and then forget about for another 30 or 40 years. Its an ideal weapon for someone who doesnt count on having access to a master gunsmith or resupply of parts. Its an ideal weapon for someone who doesnt want to wonder about whether his gun will function in ????ty weather.

Every gun has been used for bad things from time to time. The AK47 is probably the most widely used and produced rifle type in the world, so obviously it will have a large share of blood on it. Guns dont get to choose the countries they will fight for. Countries choose the guns.

I personally wish our country had picked the kalshnikov design over the M16, if only for reliability concerns. It seems we fight every war in some god-forsaken corner of the earth with ????ty weather. My arsenal Ak is every bit as accurate as your average M16 (at least out to 100 yards so far) and has just as wide a selection of accessories and ammunition. It is also marginally cheaper than a low quality AR15. We could even have chambered an american AK in whatever caliber we wished- 7.62, 5.56 or something else like 6.5mm or 6.8mm (like we are trying to do now) and manufactured it to whatever standards we had wished.

Clean97GTI
December 12, 2004, 06:33 PM
Right now, I'm saving for a stamped Bulgarian from Arsenal Inc.

To me, the AK design symbolizes the lowly worker/soldier. The lower classes have always been counted on to get in the fight and slug it out for their country. The AK symbolizes the common man wielding the power that is too often, held over his head. A rugged, reliable rifle for a rugged, reliable man. Doesn't really matter what his/her nationality is. You could easily substitute Mosin-Nagant for AK and look at the Soviets fighting bitterly against invading Germans to preserve their homes.

"we fight for the land of our birth though we've never owned a lousy handful of earth" -The Workers Song by Ed Pickford

They have a repuation for being damn fine rifles as well.

Correia
December 13, 2004, 03:44 PM
My AKs symbolize reliability and cheap ammo. :)

Sleeping Dog
December 13, 2004, 05:53 PM
They used to symbolize the commie hordes, the enemy, the revolutionaries.

Now they symbolize the scary, the bad, the evil. In the minds of MMM'ers and BradyBunch folks.

Mine, however, is not an evil rifle. It has no bayonet lug. :)

Regards.

VaughnT
December 13, 2004, 09:07 PM
Personally, I can't own one because of what they helped accomplish. Like others, I have a problem supporting communist governments with my dollars. The ergonomics are not good for me. The lack of aftermarket accessories mean that I have less to play with.

And I can't get an upper in .458 SOCOM!

I won't buy a new pistol with an integral lock. I won't take a class at Thunder Ranch. I won't own weapons that have a negative connotation in my mind.

MAKOwner
December 13, 2004, 09:15 PM
Pretty sure my AKs are all from Democratic countries now (Bulgaria and Romania...) anyway. Can't say as it would bother me if they weren't though. What the heck, I figure I'm helping democracy to succeed there...

I like AKs because they're a kickass rugged yet simple and inexpensive military style weapon. I don't really care what country they're from or what style of government they have/had...

Cosmoline
December 14, 2004, 02:33 PM
I don't buy ChiCom stuff for the same reason I won't buy ammo from Mugabe's defense forces. Those dollars support evil. But frankly 90% of the semi AK's on the market are the product of communism's downfall in the eastern block. I can think of no better tribute to freedom than to buy and sell rifles that once outlawed private ownership :D

geekWithA.45
December 14, 2004, 07:38 PM
I separate the actual gun from the symbolic use of it.

An actual AK is simply wood and steel, like every other crafted chunk of wood and steel, with its relative merits or lack thereof.

In using iconic imagery of the AK, I'd say that it comes with too much negative baggage.

Imagine a simple silhouette of an arm holding an AK aloft.

Does this scream "freedom" to you? Or does it conjur up thoughts of some commie 3rd world revolution?

As for the AR being a symbol of oppression, I'd say, Nope. Not yet, and not with so many of them in the people's hands.

Lobotomy Boy
December 15, 2004, 01:08 PM
Attaching importance to symbolism is one of the most effective tools any person or organization with fascistic tendencies has at his or her disposal. Take the feminist movement of the 1980s, when I went to college. The feminists thought that if they could change the symbolism that people used in speech, they could alter the psychology of the speaker and thus change the world. That was the birth of politically correct language. And now, almost 20 years later, men and women are still different in spite of the best efforts of the feminists to convince us otherwise through symbolism.

Now the same sort of totalitarian impulses are driving the closet fascists who try to ban guns like the AK. What, exactly, can you do with an AK that you couldn't do with a BAR or a Remington 7400? The answer is, of course, nothing. Yet totalitarian thinkers like Kennedy and Feinstein and Schumer are trying to use the AK as a symbol to enforce their fascistic agenda.

I rank symbolism pretty low in the grand scheme of things. If I was to attach any symbolism to the AK, it would be positive, since I admire Mikhail Kalashnikov a great deal. He developed his gun because it broke his heart to see the Russian soldiers getting shot to pieces by the Nazis. His goal was as noble as that of any person who has ever developed a military firearm, perhaps even more so. He wasn't concerned with exporting revolution or world domination--he was concerned with saving the lives of his comrades. And isn't that, ultimately, one of the reasons many of us own guns today?

Lonestar.45
December 15, 2004, 05:16 PM
Lobotomy Boy, couldn't have said it better myself.

I used to be turned off by the image, but not anymore. It's just wood and metal. Anti's are turned off by "images", we ought to be more open minded.

A few weeks back I was looking at Shotgun News when I was at Dad's house. He saw an AK-47 type being advertised, and got curious. He said, how much is that? Tell me about them? I told him....I asked him why he wanted to know, he said he wanted to get one. I asked him why (he has deer rifles, but doesn't shoot much). He said he wanted a gun he could show the grandkids and tell them this is the kind of gun he was shot with in Vietnam (he took 4 AK rounds and survived, barely). If anyone had a reason to have a negative feeling about it, it'd be him. I guess everyone is different.

I've seen M-16's in the hands of the PLO, and in some of the beheading videos coming out of Iraq. It's not the weapon, but the person behind it.

gulogulo1970
December 15, 2004, 06:02 PM
I always wanted one, but I just have the thought that it is the "Bad Guys Rifle" . Every recent foe tends to shoot at us with those. I can't make myself buy one even though I want one. Conflicted, yes.

I guess I favor wearing the white hat as opposed to wearing the black hat when it comes to the firearms I own.

brtecson
December 24, 2004, 01:45 AM
I just bought an AK yesterday. At the gunstore, the a couple workers there and I were talking about this. One of the guys there was against selling the gun at all, not because he didn't like it, but because it seemed that the sale of AKs was harsh to a lot of their older clientele. However, most of them just see the gun as a machine that shoots bullets and does a fairly nice job of it.

I'm going to tell you guys what I told them. For every war that the US was involved in where the enemy had AKs, there was some sort of friendly local guerrilla forces on our side that used AKs as well. :) (afaik.)

fistful
December 24, 2004, 02:37 AM
I don't have an AK, and I'm not all that excited about them, but I like the AK. It doesn't put me in mind of politics or any particular war; it's just a good gun. It (apparently) has served its purpose very well, and I like the old classics. I don't love the AK like I love the Mauser and the 1911, but the AK is similar in that it is a world standard that has stood the test of time and inspired a million clones.

Kharn
December 24, 2004, 10:30 AM
I like it, the symbol of a failed system, the weapon of the unsucessful revolutionary in the fight against capitalism, in my gun safe for $300. :evil:

Kharn

NMshooter
December 24, 2004, 05:41 PM
I liked them more when I could get a SLR-95 for less than $200... :neener:

RevDisk
December 24, 2004, 07:20 PM
There is a reason why so many countries have them. Cheap, reliable, "accurate enough". Decent round. Symbolism doesn't matter, because "good guys" and "bad guys" both use them.

>SHOCK<^>WAVE<
December 25, 2004, 02:15 PM
Being able to own the EX enemy's choice weapon which is also first choose of terrorists and revolutionarys around the world is one powerful expression of our freedom in the USA.

kaferhaus
December 25, 2004, 02:33 PM
I bought 2 in 1987, one a polytech "legend" and a plain jane Norinco with a threaded rather than pinned in barrel. Obviously both are pre-ban. I paid $190 for the Norinco and $325 for the Polytech.

The poly is a much higher quality weapon, but the Norinco shoots circles around it accuracy wize.. go figure.

Both are accurate enough for what they're designed for... that said they're the worst guns I've ever owned as far as accuracy goes... The worst shooting AR I ever owned will shoot circles around any of them.

Still have em both though... they're a hoot to shoot and even decent ammo is cheap enough. I've never shot any of the commie surplus/steel case crap in either one of mine.

Mark8252
December 27, 2004, 02:34 AM
The AK is a tool like any other firearm. Do guns cause crime? Of course not.
Do guns cause communism. Of course not
People do.

benEzra
December 27, 2004, 10:03 AM
Imagine a simple silhouette of an arm holding an AK aloft.

Does this scream "freedom" to you? Or does it conjur up thoughts of some commie 3rd world revolution?
Holding any long gun aloft one-handed is sort of a fighting gesture. Replace the AK lookalike with a Mossberg 500 or an AR-15 and it would still look, well, revolutionary...

A photo of me holding my AK at port arms, though--that's a symbol of freedom to me. :)

Dionysusigma
December 27, 2004, 10:42 AM
I suppose for some, driving on an interstate today is out. As is anything VW. Or Toyota, Honda, most Fords (I was surprised by this). Or tobacco. Look, we've been enemies with just about everyone on this ball of dirt. Are they symbols of fallen enemies? Depends if the individual sees it that way... I personally don't. I see each of them as benefits to modern technology that yes, they were invented by some of the most formidable enemies we've had, but in the end they had some decent ideas. I'm not one for rotting in the past.

Shooter973: A little more than symbolism to me!! I was shot at a few times by these weapons and also by SKS's. I have absolutely no desire to own one. I won't give my money up to buy a Commie or former Commie weapon... :cuss: :fire: I guess it makes a difference after being on the wrong end of these weapons!!! :mad:
I guess it's just me... I would own them because of those reasons. People in general are more likely to stuff and mount the head of a lion that attacked them in Africa than stuff and mount the squirrel that's been eating all the bird seed in the back yard.

Peter M. Eick
December 28, 2004, 07:44 PM
One of my Buddies came back from Russia and told me that they now have a Tee-shirt just made for Symbolism of the Ak series.

Picture a nice big front letter saying....

"AK-47 WORLD TOUR"

(big picture of AK 47)

On the Back, and I am estimating the dates.....

Poland (48)
Checksolvockia (49) (badly spelled)
East German (50)
etc
etc
etc
Afghanistan (88)
Iran (89)
Iraq (90)
Kuwait (91)
etc.
etc.
Afghanistan (01)
Iraq (01)

finally in italics...

Coming to a war near you!

Reno
December 28, 2004, 09:48 PM
To me, it symbolizes excellent engineering - cheap, reliable, effective. I really would like to get one.

If you enjoyed reading about "Symbolism of the AK series, turn you on or off?" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!