You know what will be blamed in this incident..


PDA






bg
December 9, 2004, 12:18 PM
I hate to see this. We who have been on the pro-firearms front know all too
well how the anti's and media will make this look. It will always be the fault
of the weapon..There are a lot of good kids out there who I think will now
be leaning more to the anti-gun agenda than on the fence. This tragic act
hits em where they WILL take notice..What do you think ?
http://www.yahoo.com/s/223127

If you enjoyed reading about "You know what will be blamed in this incident.." here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!
El Rojo
December 9, 2004, 12:23 PM
I am assuming that BG is talking about this. Heavy Metal Massacre Kills Five. (http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,140955,00.html)

Five Killed, Two Hurt in Nightclub Shooting
Thursday, December 09, 2004

COLUMBUS, Ohio — A gunman charged onstage at a packed nightclub and opened fire on the band and crowd, killing top heavy metal guitarist "Dimebag" Darrell Abbott (search) and three other people before a police officer shot him to death, authorities and witnesses said.

Police spokeswoman Sherry Mercurio identified three of the victims of Wednesday's shooting as Abbott, who played for the Texas-based band Damageplan (search), and two other men, Nathan Bray, 23; and Erin Halk, 29.

She identified the gunman as Nathan Gale, 25, of Marysville, 25 miles northwest of Columbus. She said there was no information on a motive or any connection to the band.

Damageplan had just begun its first song at the Alrosa Villa (search) club when the man shot Abbott five or six times at point-blank range, a witness said.

Abbott, 38, one of metal's top guitarists, and his brother, Damageplan drummer Vinnie Paul Abbott, were members of Pantera (search), the Grammy-nominated thrash-rock pioneer that enjoyed wide popularity in the early 1990s.

The witness, 22-year-old Chris Couch, said he was standing about 30 feet from the stage when he saw a man wearing a hooded sweat shirt walk up to the stage, followed by a bouncer and another club employee.

The man in the sweat shirt climbed onto the stage, started yelling and opened fire on the guitarist, then shot a bouncer who pulled him off the musician, Couch said.

Police spokesman Sgt. Brent Mull said that after shooting at band members, the gunman fired into the crowd.

The gunman was shot and killed by patrol officer James D. Niggemeyer, who arrived shortly after the shooting began, police said.

"If the officer wasn't as close as he was, I think this would have been a lot worse," Mull said. "It was a chaotic scene, just a horrific scene."

Mercurio said Niggemeyer, 31, was patrolling nearby when he heard the call about the shooting. He entered the club through a back door and was directed to the stage, where he saw one person lying dead and the suspect holding onto another person, Mercurio said. His deadly shot probably saved other lives, Mercurio said.

The name of the fifth person killed was not immediately released. Mercurio said family members were still being notified.

Thursday morning, a dozen yellow roses, still in plastic wrap, lay near the entry to the low-slung beige building that since 1974 has hosted mostly heavy metal acts. The 641-person-capacity club, just off a freeway exit on the city's north side, sits amid motels, small businesses and office complexes.

After the shooting began, Couch and a friend headed for the exit along with a tide of hundreds of fans.

"It was definitely a grudge. It was against something," Couch said.

Amanda Stankus, 19, who attended the show with Couch, said she initially thought the shooting was part of the show.

"I just saw the guitarist fall down, and we decided to get out of there," she said.

The Abbott brothers produced Damageplan's debut album, "New Found Power," which was released in February. Other band members are vocalist Patrick Lachman and bassist Bob "Zilla" Kakaha.

"Damageplan carries on the tradition Pantera started, the ... hell-raising tradition we were all about," Vinnie Paul Abbott told The Dallas Morning News in October. "We do play some Pantera songs. Me and Dime wrote them, and we feel like we have the right to play them. But the focus is on Damageplan.

"It took awhile for some of the Pantera fans to accept it; we knew that was gonna be the case," he said. "Change is something that people have a hard time accepting. But me and Dime intended on doing this our whole lives."

A message left with Atlantic Records Group, which oversees Damageplan's label Elektra, was not immediately returned.

Damageplan's Web site said Darrel and Vinnie Abbott grew up in the Dallas-Fort Worth area, where their father, country songwriter Jerry Abbott (search), owned a recording studio.

Telephone numbers for Darrell and Jerry Abbott are unlisted and could not be reached early Thursday by The Associated Press.

Pantera, known for its fast, aggressive sound, recorded several albums in the 1990s, attracting a massive cult following. The third release, "Far Beyond Driven," debuted at No. 1 in 1994, surprising chart-watchers and critics alike.

Other hit albums were "The Great Southern Trendkill" and "Reinventing The Steel." A song by the band became the Dallas Stars hockey team's signature tune in 1999.

Pantera was nominated for Grammies for best metal performance in 1995 for "I'm Broken" and in 2001 for "Revolution Is My Name."

The video "The Best of Pantera: Far Beyond the Great Southern Cowboys' Vulgar Hits" hit the top 10 for music-video sales earlier this year; another video, "3-Watch It Go," hit the top 10 in 1998.

The shootings came exactly 24 years after John Lennon (search) was shot to death outside his New York apartment building by a deranged fan.

Dozens of messages were posted to the Dallas band's Web site after the shootings.

"This is the worst day in metal history," one posting read.

"The metal world feels your pain," another wrote.

El Rojo
December 9, 2004, 12:24 PM
This is really simple actually. If they would just prohibit people from carrying guns inside of bars, this would have never happened. :banghead:

Domino
December 9, 2004, 01:02 PM
As an huge fan of Pantera and Dimebag Darrell's guitar work this truly comes as grave news for me. Such incidents are horrific and the police officer that killed the murderer deserves an enormous pat-on-the-back for his bravery and contribution to the community. Sad news, I am in shock.

This is really simple actually. If they would just prohibit people from carrying guns inside of bars, this would have never happened.

It is illegal in most if not all states for those who have a CCW to carry in a place that serves alcohol, but please remember that it is to the descretion of the owner to decide if and how to provide security. This was not a bar but a venue for bands that serves alcohol as well, as most do. Imagine how costly it would be for every club and bar to have security personnel to frisk and use metal detectors on every customer who entered their establishment. I, for one do not desire to see these things happen to all of my favorite places to go. Besides, we all know darn well that if someone is deticated as this individual apparently was, they can almost always accomplish their goal. There is NO law that can prevent crime as crime is free will. Let them be punished for their deeds as that is the only way to achieve true justice.

TinCup
December 9, 2004, 01:47 PM
I've worked in the entertainment industry for close to 30 years. I'm surprised the guy was able to get in with the gun. I mostly work arenas and larger concert venues, but on the occasion when we work a club, I've never seen one of late that didn't have metal detectors and/or security with wands.

tc

Chipperman
December 9, 2004, 01:49 PM
umm, I think El Rojo was being sarcastic.

And there are plenty of states where CCW in a bar is fine.
MA and NH are among those.

TallPine
December 9, 2004, 02:14 PM
The real problem is hooded sweatshirts.

It seems that all criminals wear them at one time or another.

If we would just ban hooded sweatshirts then we could put an end to crime and violence.

:rolleyes:

Henry Bowman
December 9, 2004, 02:55 PM
"There is NO law that can prevent crime as crime is free will."

True, but there are laws (in Ohio) that prevent people from exercising their free will to defend themselves with adequate tools.

ReadyontheRight
December 9, 2004, 04:36 PM
I know very little about Pantera, and this is of course a tragedy perpetuated by a murdering idiot, and the victims ARE the victims who did not deserve this, but --

Could the fact that the victim's nickname is "dimebag" have at least a little to do with this?

Yowza
December 9, 2004, 05:28 PM
Maybe if the murderer was a fanatical religious conservative.

Rick

Standing Wolf
December 9, 2004, 09:40 PM
It is illegal in most if not all states for those who have a CCW to carry in a place that serves alcohol...

Not in Colorado.

Ryder
December 10, 2004, 02:18 AM
I don't see this pushing any metal enthusiast toward an antigun agenda. Does whining about others sound like something you think they'd enjoy doing?

Way more likely they'd consider joining the Marine Corps so the government can teach them how to kill like that too.

Sindawe
December 10, 2004, 02:43 AM
Looks like the "security" in the venue did not have any sort of wands or even a screening protocol. They were just there to observe and make sure things did not get out of hand, according to Columbus local news.

:scrutiny: :mad: :banghead:

I'd say things rather got out of hand here. I'm suprised that there may not have been any real screening of the audience. Every concert I've been too, even at a small club, has had at least a quick pat down before entry. There such things as the chain on a wallet (Dream Theatre) or keyring mace (Lords of Acid) are verboten.

ReadyontheRight
December 10, 2004, 12:23 PM
"Dimebag" ... Maybe if the murderer was a fanatical religious conservative.

Or a disgruntled drug deal gone bad. What in this victim's life perpetuates more violence - drugs, guns or music? I'd say it's probably drugs.

So you're saying that all the violence around the U.S. illegal drug industry is perpetuated by gun-totin' fanatical religious conservatives? :rolleyes:

duck hunt
December 10, 2004, 12:51 PM
And cue blaming the victim.

As usual, we take the high road. :scrutiny:

armedcitizen
December 10, 2004, 12:53 PM
Could the fact that the victim's nickname is "dimebag" have at least a little to do with this?

Easy Readyonthe Right, I brought up that possibility in the Roundtable forum and a couple of people took offense!

That was my thought exactly. This could be a prime example of reaping what he sowed.

duck hunt
December 10, 2004, 12:54 PM
And smoking a plant that makes you silly, hungry and tired makes you deserve to be shot in the head six times how, exactly?

armedcitizen
December 10, 2004, 12:55 PM
Also, since this happened in my hometown, I've already sent a letter to the local rag, I mean newspaper regarding this. You can see it here:

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=115179

armedcitizen
December 10, 2004, 01:11 PM
And smoking a plant that makes you silly, hungry and tired makes you deserve to be shot in the head six times how, exactly?

No one said he deserved to get shot in the head. My point is that with a nickname like that I don't think the boy was spending his free time at Bible study or helping with the homeless.

If (and I don't know for sure) Mr. Dimebag embraced the "drug culture", a violent, sudden death was always a possibility.

Bruce H
December 10, 2004, 01:16 PM
Before everybody rags the guitar player with a catchy stage name, how about taking a carefull look at the shooter. :cuss:

duck hunt
December 10, 2004, 01:23 PM
if Mr. Dimebag embraced the "drug culture", a violent, sudden death was always a possibility.

....we could always legalize marijuana and get the criminals out of the weed business. That way peaceful people could safely buy their weed the same way those who choose to drink beer buy their beer.

My point is that with a nickname like that I don't think the boy was spending his free time at Bible study

Well, Bible study is the last place you'll find me....does that mean I deserve to be gunned down at work like Darrell? How about the youth pastor in Iowa who was just arrested for taking indecent liberties with a minor? I'll bet he spent a lot of time at Bible study. Does that make him a better person than someone who didn't go to bible study and didn't molest children? I'm curious.

armedcitizen
December 10, 2004, 01:26 PM
Duck Hunt,

You're not curious, you're nit-picking. See the first line of my post: no one said he deserved it.

duck hunt
December 10, 2004, 01:28 PM
Yes, but you went on to point out he probably didn't go to Bible study, implying that that would somehow make him a better person, or a safer person, or a person less likely to be involved with a criminal element.

I may be nit-picking, but I am also curious.

ReadyontheRight
December 10, 2004, 01:29 PM
I thought my original post hedged this question, but I guess not.

I personally think the drug laws in the US are pretty silly, I prefer the Libertarian approach to legalize most drugs, but the reality is that there is a violent underlayment to the drug culture.

I'm NOT trying to rip on the victim. I couldn't care less what he or anyone else smokes, drinks, ingests so long as it doesn't hurt anyone else.

I guess my knee-jerk reaction is to look for reasons for things like this to balance out all the media pundits who will blame it on the gun.

No offense intended and I wish the best for the victims and their families.

Diggler
December 10, 2004, 01:34 PM
Maybe the roadie reaped what he had sown.

Maybe the young fan reaped what he had sown.

Maybe the bouncer reaped what he had sown.

:banghead:

Henry Bowman
December 10, 2004, 01:38 PM
It appears that this shooting had nothing to do with drugs (or at least any dispute about them or money for them -- first victim's nickname notwithstanding). It was a nutjob who went off his rocker with his anger focused on one guy who he blamed for breaking up his favorite heavy metal band. I will hold my personal speculation on details of his mental status.

This morning's paper says that the shooter jumped a fence in the back of the place and went in the back door. The (unarmed) security person saw him and was pursuing him, not knowing the urgency or his intentions until too late. Metal detectors [smirks at pun] or wanding at the door would not have helped. The only thing that could have reduced (although probably not have eliminated the carnage) was if club security or other citizen had been allowed to be armed.

Interestingly, there have been two multiple victim shootings in Ohio in the last year (other one at Case Western Reserve Univ.). Both have been where legal firearm possession was prohibited. Did this fact "attract" the shooters? Probably not. What it means is that it is stupid to prohibit legal guns in areas where thay are most likely to be misused (by criminals).

Freedomv
December 11, 2004, 12:27 AM
I don't know if this has been brought up for conversation, BUT, I have not heard a word about what type of weapon the man was using to commit those murders. Don't you think that that is rather strange??? The media is usually puking out all kinds of remarks about the weapons used in crimes such as this.
I did hear and also read where he shot the one man 5 times in the head before he turned on the others.

Did I miss some of the facts somewhere along the way?
Vern

duck hunt
December 11, 2004, 12:37 AM
I haven't heard what he was using, but at least one eyewitness says he reloaded.

Amegatek
December 14, 2004, 05:25 AM
The shooter was using a stainless Beretta 92F (right model designation? don't know Beretta's). The Police Officer dropped the shooter with a Remington 870 (00 Buck, head/face shot from 12-15 ft. away) Shooter was only ID'ed from his driver's license.

Orthonym
December 15, 2004, 08:12 PM
that the exigencies of the situation required Mr. Niggemier (Sp?) to go for the head shot, there being a hostage and all.

If I'd my Druthers, the killer would have been shot through the tummy and died of peritonitis untreatable by even the latest antibiotics, just like that statist Alex Hamilton critter.

If you enjoyed reading about "You know what will be blamed in this incident.." here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!