Bobtailed frame

Is it possible to do this on a regular 1911 frame? Who does this type work?

Bill Wilson made it as big as it is. The "Kobra Carry" IIRC.

It takes mods to the frame and mainspring housing, not sure if it is a diff. mainspring.

Ed Brown makes the bobtail MSH and a Jig for locating the new pin hole. It requires machining of the frame but the results are kick ass.

http://www.edbrown.com/cgi-bin/htmlos.cgi/008532.1.740858314721117578

I have wondered about this myself. I fail to see how the jig would work. If you were to slide it into place, wouldn't it cover up the pin holes? Does anyone know?

We dont use a jig, the guys do it by eye

WildlooksgoodAlaska

WildAlaska,
Could you elaborate a bit more? By eye?
Thanks
Stinkyyougotmyinterestpeakedshoe

Yeah ya put the housing in, take a scribe, scribe a line and head for the grinder...

Now mind ya that aint for the faint of heart.....

heres what it looks like at the end

http://www.wildwestguns.com/Pistolsmithing/Stainlessbobtail.jpg

WildgrindawayAlaska

Wild what does it run to have one done?

Thanks for the replies thus far. Do you need to replace the mainspring or does it use the original?

Wild
That looks really great! I am still don't quite understand how you are getting the hole drilled in the right spot. I was dreaming up this elaborate jig I would have to make in order to transcripe the holes correctly. Do you really just script a line, get out the Mikita and go to town.... :rolleyes: ?

Does the Bobtail require a special spring and plunge ram? Do you have a smooth Bobtail on that or is it checkered?

Thats an EB Bob. and and SS EB high MG, right? Do the grip scales need to cover the pin hole to retain the pin through the frame and the BOB. or is it retained like a normal 1911?
Thanks
Stinkyyougotmewonderingshoe

The EB units are smooth, AFAIK, and I like 'em that way.
They really help with the recoil.
I got a bobtail commander-length slide 10mm from dan wesson, and I am impressed.
It was pretty reasonable, too.
***EDITED FRO SPELLING*** ;)

How is a Bobtail 10mm as far as recoil? Is the gun accurate? Is it a smooth Bobtail?
Thanks
Ss

I bought the MSH and the jig from Ed Brown (both were pretty inexpensive), and Ted Yost is putting it on my Delta Elite. Should be done in the next few weeks, I can't wait to get it back. The "round-butt" treatment helps alot with concealment, and also seems to me to allow me to get more of my hand behind the weapon, lessening felt recoil. I'll have to post a bragging picture when it returns. :D

DanO

Wild,

Can you do my LW commander? PM me with the cost.

OK questions...

Carebear we have done a few lightweights...its a bit more complicated but doable...come in after the move..

We use ed brown ms housings and eb memeory groove safgeties...I dont recall what the price is...and yes they just scribe and grind :)

The pin hole is not moved on std guns....

WildbobmytailvernAlaska

In response to stinkyshoe, my pt-c bobtail is very accurate, and the recoil is very subtle.
In fact, it's much more manageable than a full size 1911 in 10mm!!
It has less recoil than my full size G20 or my smith 1072.
The recoil is very satisfying, and feels like you're shooting a .45, when you're actually shooting the mighty ten.
I just figured out why it feels so familiar.
It shoots like my star PD.

WildKenAlaska, I think someone in the shop is playing games with you on this, go wrap them upside the head.

Wildalaska saidThe pin hole is not moved on std guns....

Well, unfortunately it needs to be moved in not one, but two directions, please let me illustrate with a few pictures.

Here is a Commander frame which of course had a standard grip on it, the MSH and the jig.

http://pic3.picturetrail.com/VOL14/878560/5959698/76506987.jpg

Here is what it would look like if you didn't move the hole. But also notice, the hole not only has to move up, it has to move out also, see the blue I highlighted?

http://pic3.picturetrail.com/VOL14/878560/5959698/76506997.jpg

Now here is the jig. You will see that the hole actually now needs to be moved into the groove where the MSH lives.

http://pic3.picturetrail.com/VOL14/878560/5959698/76507010.jpg


What you are really supposed to do is fix the jig on your press/machine vice, center a bit on the top hole, and then install the frame with a standard pin on the 'regular' hole position on the jig and drill it. Now everything has to be perfectly centered, squared, level etc if you want to do it right. To me, a couple of thousandths off here would drive me nuts. I see this enough on factory guins whee the MSH isn't nice and flush. You can hide the sin, but when you are doing custom work it should be right.

What do I do? I have a machinest do the simple little hole on his digital mill. He's even pickier than I am, or actually I should say he's old world in the fact he is proud of his work and demands perfection out of himself, so once I have the hole placed, I can do my installation, fitting, and blending.

The difference between okay and excellent is measured in the thousandths. Maybe I go a little too far in search of perfection, but I is what I is.

Hope this helps.

What would be different doing a light weight frame versus a steel frame?
If a person wasnt concerned about .001s of an inch is this something that a person could do at home with a drill press and machine vise?

It would be more critical to be exact on a lightweight than a steel frame as the metal is much softer. If it's not perfect I'm afraid the stress will wallow the hole out somewhat. The instructions supplied with the jig even says to elongate the hole if you mess up, or something to that effect. I think that's why most people have 'pin covered' grips on theirs. Even with the jig, trying to go all the way through, the bit is going to walk. You might get lucky, but if you have to ask the question, luck will be what gets you through.

I wouldn't discourage anyone from trying something on their own, but if you screw up on the lightweight frame, there is no going back, it's toast.

Bill Z
Appreciate your help my ? was of LW was in response to Wilds statement of LW being more complicated, I can see not getting a do over with a Lw frame but not being more complicated just more critical. Trying to seperate fact from fiction.

If the frame is clamped in vise and the jig pinned and clamped to the frame were does the trouble come from. Trying to find what I cant see so I dont get my self into trouble, Treading into unfamilar waters. Been doing non firearms related metal work for last 5years but our tolerances are +- .005"
I can do this work on breaks at work and use there machines but like to putter with stuff at home evenings especially during the winter.

Is there any addition benefits to the bob tail besides concealibility? What about feel of recoil and controllability.

Caz,
boy that sure sounds like a temping set up. The 10mm would be sweet. I shot one this summer in a d/a Smith, but it kicked quite a bit more with full bore loads when compared to a 1911. I just can't decide.

Ss

Depending on the equipment you have and the stability of the vice and press you could get a good job done. I would reccomend to you though to drill one side at a time.

Clamp the jig, line the press up, clamp the frame, do that side and then repeat for the other side. I would use a smaller bit than the proper bit, I'm thinking 5/32, need to check to make sure. An end mill bit would probably be better.

You can then pin the MHS in and contour with a belt sander or a mill file and blend it in. Go slow with the metal removal, it will load up a belt or file much quicker than carbon or stainless.

There's no reason with the equipment you have available that you cannot do a fantastic job with this, I just wouldn't trust it to the home appliances some people call drill presses.

Feel free to give me a ring over the week-end or late-late in the evenings if you want to talk it through a little. I'm hard to catch sometimes though. Number's on the web-site.

Bill

I did mine with the use of a Bridgeport Miller, an indicator, and an edgefinder.

If there is a machine shop around where you live it may be worth a trip to talk to someone there.

It is pretty simple with the right tools.

Bob

Thanks for the help< I have a complete machine shop at my disposal at work I just need to do it on breaks or before-after work