Ted Nugent Elephant Hunt on TV


PDA






DigMe
December 11, 2004, 02:38 PM
I just flipped on the TV to my local CBS affiliate and Ted Nugent's Spirit of the Wild was on. I always forget that comes on but I was glad I caught it.

On this episode he was in Botswana near the Limpopo <sp?> river elephant hunting. He was using a custom Remington 700 stainless/synthetic in .375 H&H with a stainless Leupold scope set to 4x. He was loaded with 300 gr solids. They found their elephant and it seemed like they were stalking it for a while but they edited a lot of that out. Finally Nuge had a broadside shot and pinned him right in the brain at 40 yards. The oliphant went down immediately. His partner shot him again in the shoulder with a .470 NE anyway. It was a nice elephant with short to medium tusks.

Nuge did a good job of explaining the elephant situation in that part of Africa. Apparently that area can sustain about 300-something elephants and there are over 900 living there so they are trying desperately to control population. He also said that he was going for a brain shot and that he's been fascinated by elephant hunting and been studying elephant anatomy and elephant hunting since he was a kid. He also stated that sighting his gun in he could put two bullets in the same hole with that gun and ammo and all that together is why he had decided that he was going for a brain shot for the most humane kill possible.

Later in the show Nuge got a nice-sized Waterbuck with bow-and-arrow. Perfect shot to the crease behind the shoulder.

Ted Nugent's Spirit of the Wild comes on here every Saturday at noon. Does it show in your area? Does it usually show on OLN? I don't know because I don't have cable. Good stuff though!

brad cook

If you enjoyed reading about "Ted Nugent Elephant Hunt on TV" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!
MP-44
December 12, 2004, 12:17 PM
Thanks for the heads up. I didn't even know Nugent had a show.

DigMe
December 12, 2004, 05:28 PM
I took a look at his website and here's the schedule for the show:

Outdoor Channel: All times are Eastern Standard Time
Tues 5:00pm, Thur. 8:30pm, Sat 1:30am, all EST

I guess he lets them show it on our local CBS affiliate because he has a ranch just down the road<?>. Does anyone else catch this on other channels besides the OC?

brad cook

Arc-Lite
December 12, 2004, 05:50 PM
hunting is one thing...but to shoot an elephant is criminal !!!! BOOOOOOOO Ted

MP-44
December 12, 2004, 07:04 PM
Arc-Lite,
Shooting elephants cost big $$ and those fees goes back into the local wildlife management. $0 when the goverment thins out the herds.

Years back I saw a news clip of game rangers thinning a herd of elephants with full auto FALs. I think a precision brain shot is preferable.

Arc-Lite
December 12, 2004, 08:32 PM
MP-44...I lived there for many years...the fees go back to "wildlife management" ...like the lotto goes to the public schools... just find it very sad to kill such a noble creature...Now hunting the pouchers with their AK-47's... there would be a good job...for Ted..and the film crew. Africa has gone mad..and will do anything for a buck. Arc-Lite

griz
December 12, 2004, 08:39 PM
Ted was being inteviewed once about his elephant hunt. They asked him "aren't elephants endangered". He responded "that one was". I just love it when he ignores the PC route and answers questions honestly.

H&Hhunter
December 12, 2004, 10:10 PM
"hunting is one thing...but to shoot an elephant is criminal !!!! BOOOOOOOO Ted"

Arc-lite,

Based on what personal experience/knowledge is this statement made?

"MP-44...I lived there for many years...the fees go back to "wildlife management" ...like the lotto goes to the public schools..."

Where did you live over there? And what knowledge do you have about wildlife management in that area?

I'm guessing that you are not aware of the situation that is currently unfolding in southern Africa in regards to severe elephant over population? Planned culling operations in many parks? elephant control schemes in regards to agricultural destruction? So on and so forth?

The current bambist attitude towards elephants is going to do them far more harm than good. Sport hunting is the only economically feasible elephant control plan available with the current unavaililability of other currency streams that used to be derived from elephant products before the international ban on commercial elephant product sales was put in effect. many parks hunting concessions and other areas are rotten with elephants right now and they have no way of controlling these populations short of mass destruction from culling teams. This of course could have been avoided through regulated sport hunting. It is probably to late even for that.


Doing my part. I shot this tuskless cow on a cull only non export permit this summer in the Zambezi river valley (Zimbabwe). This animal was processed for local consumption. the skin was used for leather local production, The bones were gound up and used for fertilizer, the license fee was used to support the communal area I was hunting in which consists of four villages. the Safari outfitter, Swainsons of Zimbabwe leases this communal area from these four villages and in return the land stays wild. The animal populations are carefully controlled and maintained. The outfitter pays for(with hunters fees) antipoaching teams, problem animal control, schools and a medical clinic. Not to mention road maintenance and they are the primary source of income in that area for the locals. All of which I've seen with my own two eyes.

Now please tell me how hunting hurts the noble elephant? Or how it is that hunting funds are not turned back into the wildlife management and conservation of the area. Somebody has to do it because the local governments in places like Zim sure as hell aren't going to. All of these wildlife area including much of the funding for national parks derive income and management from hunting concerns

http://img32.exs.cx/img32/4489/nzou10by.jpg

Respectfully

H&Hhunter.

editted fer spellin and grammer I musta missed that day in school.. ;)

jptsr1
December 12, 2004, 10:30 PM
Not to change the subject, but it always kills me (no pun intended) when tree huggers rank animals in a fashion which has the ones they like also being the ones that shouldn’t be hunted. Not many have a problem with blasting a coyote, raccoon or other “nuisance” animal that has been tearing up their trash or killing their livestock but pluck an elephant, deer or bear and folks are up in arms. I like to hunt. If its not illegal to take an animal by local law and the animal is not on the endangered species list I'm going to take it weather it has been in a Disney movie or not.

J.

DigMe
December 13, 2004, 12:54 AM
Again Ted explained very clearly that his taking of this elephant was part of a culling due to the fact that there were over 900 elephants in a space that can maintain a maximum of 300 elephants.

brad cook

Arc-Lite
December 13, 2004, 02:12 AM
Firstly... No one needs to defend.... a position... be it pro or con...on this issue... you asked for my experience and knowledge and how I based this statement.. my experience comes from the days following the VietNam exchange... when I was a consultant to the Selous Scouts , and in my travels threw Botswana, Rhodesia, Mozambique, Zambia, Tanzania and Kenya..in Kenya the regions of Tsavo, Meru, Laikipia, Mara, Nasaio and Sambura...threw this ten year period, the overall elephant population went from 1.3 mllion to 600,00...and from todays questionable records... now is at the 400000 range...and droping....all due to pouchers, killing for body parts, and killing of the local rangers at the same time ...the ivory trade, killing for the flourishing world markets, and "harvesting" ...for the much needed dollars. During this tour...and a following 6 years...with the world health organization ..it became clear, as to the ways in which...fees were spent...and how very little, if anything actually arrived to the "programs" run...by one African country or the other. I am glad you did see...the use of these fees...but all of your programs, animal control, pouchers teams, roads ,school, etc.. also have multi national sponsors...and think about what you saw.... did it look well funded? How does a decline...in total number of elephants equate to an over population? Man and animal...usually come to conflict...when man abuses the lands...and this then becomes animal control issues. I respect you H&H... for your follow up...to insure..that your kill...was used...and not left to rot in the africian sun...as the 100's I have seen. The elephant population of today...is in small isolated pockets...all threw out the south regions...not in vast roaming numbers...your area...of operation..financial health depended on the high numbers of elephants...which follow water...and travel geat distances at will. Africa...is in great need of dollars...any ones dollars...and is willing to sell...anything for that end...I just hate to see it at the cost... of life. I too am a hunter...6 years ..5th S.F. GP. ABN. and 5 years in the bush with the scouts...and as for hugging trees...... please!!!! We all arrived here...on a different bus...and need not defend it. If your mind is made up...you can always find something to support that belief... just keep your eyes open...before you make up your mind. Arc-Lite

jefnvk
December 13, 2004, 04:01 AM
Firstly, lots of '...''s make a post very difficult to read.

Second, I think you should be more upset at poachers, and inefficent governments, than conservationists like the Nuge. He is the least of the Elephant's problems (well, at least not the one in his sights ;) )

Haven't sen his show, but I will see him in concert soon, though :D

Matt G
December 13, 2004, 09:26 AM
Arc-Lite-- consider: In an area where the elephants are overpopulated and clash regularly with the local population, the only way to get the locals to value them is to make them a valued resource. When the locals think of those elephants as a valuable resource, they'll fiercely defend them against the poachers. This is NOT going to happen when they're just a pest that brings no benefit!

H&Hhunter
December 13, 2004, 09:39 AM
Arc-lite

Of all the countries you've mentioned.

Botswana, Rhodesia(Zimbabwe), Mozambique, Zambia, Tanzania and Kenya..

Only one is still experiencing an overall decline in elephant population. Kenya. Also the only country in which hunting is not allowed. Your information and view point was correct 20 years ago in regards to elephant population. Things have changed.

What you don't seem to grasp is that the mass elephant population decline was due to poaching both government sponsered as in Kenya. (Why they stopped sport hunting in the first place. It was getting in the way of the government sponsered poaching rings.) And private concerns.

The only places that elephants have survived and thrived is in hunting countries. When an animal becomes more valuble as a renewable resource than as a set of tusks it starts to make sense to protect that animal.

If something is not done to reduce elephant populations in Southern Africa there is going to be a mass die off of disturbing proportions. It is a tragedy that elephants have been killed off at the rates that they were for so many years after decolonization. And still are killed off at an alarming rate in some areas READ KENYA (The darling of the anti hunting leberal elite .)Sudan and others.

But the here and know in Southern Africa is quite the opposite and it is mostly due to, to many elephants not enough land. Please tell us Arc.......Lite..... What.....Is your.......Solution....To this problem. And how does legal sport hunting (which is the primary source of revenue that has preserved and protected elephants and all the other fauna in Africa for the last 20 years) make Ted Nugent a criminal??

Arc-Lite
December 13, 2004, 02:05 PM
I apologise jetnvk, for my style of writing, and realize it is the responsibility of the writer to make their points clear in an exchange, usually I do the dots... when thinking, and when other stories could follow. Your correct, about skum pouchers and inefficient, corrupt governments, Zimbabwe stands alone in their views and actions, but as most governments in lesser and greater degrees, truth, honor, clairity and focus, are not their shining points. MattG, overpopulation, if a TOTAL decline in numbers equates to overpopulation, if you have an assumption first, and then the numbers were obtained, is this a true conclusion? and consider the counters, if there are 300 elephants before your eyes, and no other elephants for 300 miles, is this a count? Also consider, if someone lands in New York city, and sees this to be ALL of america, are they correct? Again consider, what Africa means to you, is it only a land of farms, with zoos, and paved roads to the next McDonalds, that only sees the wildlife as a resource? H&H, again, something to consider, if one choose to make their mind up, and then find only the supporting evidence to suppot this, does it make it true? Botswana, Zimbabwe,Mozambique, Zambia,Tanzania, Kenya, Uganda etc.. are all the range of the elephant. Elephants do not carry passports, or view counties boundries, and again, it is about the total numbers of elephants, not just the ones before your eyes. the countries "where hunting is allowed" would be funny, if it were not so untrue. 20 years ago, 10 years ago, 5 years ago, today, are all considerations that make up the entire picture. When the TOTAL numbers decline,this is not overpopulation. Your point as to "why" the total population has declined is somewhat correct, pouching was and is, and will always be a problem. Pouching for body parts, and ivory, and with the May 2004 re-opening of the ivory trade, and the opening sale of 66 TONS of ivory to the internation trades, will surely not stop pouching. ( the official word on this sale, is that this ivory, this 66 TONS of ivory, was from "death by natural causes") when elephants are viewed as a "renewable resource" and the facts are in question, when the total counts are in question, when the poaching continues, when the legal and illlegal hunting contiues, when the trafficking has come out of the shadows, and has become legal, when elephant confinement is accepted, when all safe imigrations are gated and restricted, when the question is man vs. elephant .....all of this sounds like the prisoners have become the keepers. Consider, the natural ballance of all populations, the area supports the species be it Cincinnati or the plains of Africa, this has been going on, since life began, and naturaly, without mans wisdom. Do I have the answers, sadly no, I do not..and there are no "ya buts" here. All your reasons, as well as Teds, are understandable, I just question the source of the information. Is there a problem, yes, without a doubt...does the true question change? no. We are all only the custodians and responsible to the following generations, for this brief period of time we are here , for ALL the earths health. Again..I am not defending, I only bring points to consider, do not feel the need to defend... all conclusions are come to, hopefully, by experience, research, and logic ...testosterone tends to cloud the question. We all arrived here on a different bus Respectfully..... Arc-Lite

Arc-Lite
December 13, 2004, 03:15 PM
one more short point....for 11+ years...I fought, and at times bled..for the right of choice for all. I might not agree, you might not agree... but thats not the point!! Arc-Lite

H&Hhunter
December 13, 2004, 03:44 PM
We are all only the custodians and responsible to the following generations, for this brief period of time we are here , for ALL the earths health.

Yep and if we don't do something to bring the eco system back into equalibrium in Southern Africa WE will be resposible for the rapid decline of the elephant population there. If they can't find enough feed to eat they die. They are over populated in these areas.

THE ECO SYSTEM is not able to contain the number of elephants in this area. PERIOD it doesn't matter what the elephant population is doing in the Sudan..

I have a solution that is sustainable for both governments elephants and the indiginous people. And that solution is sprot hunting of these animals. OH don't shot it because he is such a "noble" animal is not helping anybody or the elephants. It might make the lefties in Berkley happy but it has no up side. Take the emotion out of it and it's a pretty clear path. Testoseron has nothing to do with it.

In fact the argument of "don't shoot elephants because they are noble and grand" has a lot more estrogen involved than it rightfully should.

I'm still waiting for you to explain to me how this makes Ted a criminal?

Sactown
December 13, 2004, 04:00 PM
What's done with the carcass? Is it edible? Is Ted going to need a really big grill?

Arc-Lite
December 13, 2004, 04:33 PM
testoseron / estrogen ....what ever... your bait is a joke!! as for man or woman..bringing the eco system back, I can not recall, when this was successful...but I fully support this idea....and question the african data, when the US was doing above ground nuke tests, and telling the people...come out and watch, it won't hurt... was it the truth? Elephant population...is totals...not one area, this is a regional thing. If as you say, and I do not doubt you, the elephant population was so vast, in this area of your hunt... then why, a small, maybe in her teens, elephant..was your choice of shots? Removing the emotion from this, would then require a rethink, as to why, you spent $10,000+ on this hunt. Maybe Ted...was just a supporting member to bad data, supplied by a corrupt africian government, doing spin control for dollars...maybe not, maybe it was not a question or concern...I don't know. I found elephant meat...to be questionable, and I found less then happiness when I shot, a large full grown mature bull, stomping a family, but it was called for...and it was done. I do not defend it. I am not asking for you to defend your beliefs. Not questioning what you know, is more dangerious, then what you do not know....if you live and learn. I quit seeing who could pee the furtherest in the snow...LONG ago. Make your choices, and beieve what pleases you..it is your right. We both desire the same thing, just getting there on a different bus. Arc-Lite

DigMe
December 13, 2004, 05:24 PM
H&H laid out the reasons that he decided to take an elephant and why he decided to take the elephant that he did in his original thread about his last trip to Africa.

brad cook

Arc-Lite
December 13, 2004, 06:28 PM
Dig me / H&H...would like to read of the hunt...any idea the title...or where it might be? Arc-Lite

griz
December 13, 2004, 06:33 PM
Please...stop...that. Thanks, Griz

DigMe
December 13, 2004, 06:55 PM
Dig me / H&H...would like to read of the hunt...any idea the title...or where it might be? Arc-Lite

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=93711

Post #6.

brad cook

EDIT: H&H - hope you don't mind me posting that in response to Arc-light's question...just figured I'd save you some time since you already posted about it in-depth.

Arc-Lite
December 13, 2004, 07:50 PM
Dig me...thanks..I went into the search and found the Back from Zambezi...of July 26th . H&H...I with draw my questions, and want to congradulate you, on a first class write up, I wish someone would have directed me, to it, when this exchange began. I am still not in belief, with the official info coming from Africa, but have an entirely new view, of you and your hunt, my error, for not challenging my assumptions. Arc-Lite

H&Hhunter
December 13, 2004, 08:30 PM
'then why, a small, maybe in her teens, elephant..was your choice of shots?'

Arc-lite.

If you look at the picture of this cow in my Zmabezi post you'll see from the hollow temples that this is not a young elephant at all,she's actually quite geriatric.

You simply cannot judge an elephants age by body size. Rather you need to look at the degree of hollowness in the temples. This elephant was offically aged at 45+ years old. She was on her last set of mollers and was a dry cow with a 12-15 year old calf still hanging with her. She was also tuskless not broken tusked. But a genetic freak she had no formation of tusk what so ever. These elephants are regarded as very poor for the genetic pool and are culled whenever possible. Tuskless ele's also tend to be far more agressive than normal elephants for unkown reasons but it is therorized that they develope these aggresive traits due to their inabilty to properly socalize and grow in the pecking order with tusked elephants.

As far as body size goes the elephants of this region of the Zambezi tend to be smaller in staure than in may other parts of africa. They are much smaller than the elephants I've seen in the Okavango. To give you an idea this cow was in the top ten in body size that have been recored in the last ten years in this area.

As far as cost these a cull only non-trophy elephant license costs around $1500 to $2500 depending on the area.

In anycase,

If you are truely interested in elephant population problems in Southern africa the offical numbers are out there from many independant sources. And all it takes is a short walk through some of the areas in South Africa (Kruger) Zimabawe (Zambezi valley, and hawenge) and areas of the okavango in particular.

The numbers are truely astounding. And I to wish that this was the case all over africa and that these ele's were free to move about all over the continent. But for many of the reasons that we've mentioned they are not able to do so and are eating themselves out of existance on the limited range that is left free and wild. It breaks my heart.

And thank you for your last post I'm glad you enjoyed my write up.

mfree
December 14, 2004, 10:20 AM
From all the information I've gathered here, it's a choice between a nearly instant kill, or slow starvation while in the meantime the elephant denudes whatever landscape it's in.

Good shoot, Ted.

halvey
December 14, 2004, 01:58 PM
one more short point....for 11+ years...I fought, and at times bled..for the right of choice for all. I might not agree, you might not agree... but thats not the point!! Arc-Lite Why so many "..."?
Is Larry King writing again?!?

mohican
December 16, 2004, 05:06 PM
I think the management of quadriped animals on a population per continent versus a population per country/area is unrealistic. You may be able to partially manage fish and migratory birds on a continent wide basis,if you could get all parties to the table. With as many countries as Africa has, you would have as much chance of getting a consensus of opnion as Hillary does of getting the NRA endorsement for POTUS in 2008. Snowball fights in Cairo are a more likely scenario.

Whether it's elephants in souther Africa or whitetails in the Cleveland, Ohio MetroParks, an overpopulated animal segment does not usuall disperse enough to balance it's population. Some of the animals will migrate to an area with a lower population density and more available food sources, while many will stay behind and starve, become sick, or start finding other food sources which then creates human conflict

Relocation by people of overpopulated animals isn't always successfull, either.

If you enjoyed reading about "Ted Nugent Elephant Hunt on TV" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!