[Ironbarr]

Bought and had boresighted a red dot - detachable carry handle mounted. Got to run through its paces two days ago. Sighting was close on, but after about 25 rounds somewhat off. Packing it up I found the red dot mount screw through the handle had worked loose. Before I scar up the finish with a gripping metal lock washer, what is the best way to maintain a secure mount??

Mag. Two months ago I bought two USGI used mags and ran several rounds through both without a problem but didn't test a full 30-rnd load. They have lain - full - in the safe for the two months. During the firing (above) I ran about half a load from one mag - no problem. Switching to the second full mag, the top round stripped and fired properly but the bolt was locked back (as in empty mag) on the next round, which was moved forward in the mag about a 1/4-inch. I cleared the problem, stripped another and fired, but the bolt locked back again - same top round spacing. About then I was done with the AR and cased it. After running 9 rounds of 9mm Makarov, I folded my tent and headed home.

Both mags look exactly the same - no bent lips, etc. Where should I look for the solution??

[Redlg155]

Before I scar up the finish with a gripping metal lock washer, what is the best way to maintain a secure mount??

You can use a flat washer or a lock washer with some Loc-Tite on the screw threads. I had a COLT carry handle mount that had the same problems. I fixed the problem by replacing the knurled screw with an allen head screw and cutting a wrench to fit. This combined with loctite and a flat washer gave me a secure mount.

Both mags look exactly the same - no bent lips, etc. Where should I look for the solution??

The solution may be elsewhere. I'd suggest field stripping your rifle and checking the gas key for any looseness. The gas key is secured by allen head bolts that are staked in place to prevent them from moving. Even though they are staked on you can have one come loose. One of the indications of a loose gas key are the problems you described.

Good Shooting
RED

[Bottom Gun]

Regarding your scope mount, I had the same problem and fixed it with a flat AND a lock washer.
Put the flat washer next to the handle to protect the finish, then put a split ring lock washer between the flat washer and the screw.
You'll still be able to remove the mount easily but it will stay tight until you're ready to take it off.

[Badger Arms]

Check your carrier key for looseness. I've had this exact problem too and that was the solution. Once installed and staked, these should not work losse. If they do, reinstall and RESTAKE to ensure that they will not work loose. Use blue locktite if you must. Now, if this isn't the problem I suspect a good thorough cleaning will solve the problem. Take apart the magazine and clean any sand and dust out of the inside. Wipe the spring sparingly with lube.

Like it's already been said, I suspect this is a carrier key problem, but you might also want to check that the gas ring gaps are not lined up. This will keep them from letting gas pass by and short-cycling the gun. The final check would be for the tension on the gas rings. When properly cleaned, lubed, and assembled, you should be able to push the bolt all the way into the carrier and tip the carrier assembly bolt down without the bolt moving. A swift whip of the carrier should move the bolt though. If you get free movement with gravity, change the rings. A McFarland one-piece ring can be loose, but the three separate rings should be tight. Good luck.

[Ironbarr]

Red... sorry for the delay - aligators in the swamp - couldn't find the drain valve.

Bottom Gun and Badger Arms - my email box is checked, but I didn't get the normal alert messages... back to the drawing board.

All:
1. I checked the gas key as Red suggested and all seems well.

2. I'll do the washers shortly.

3. Badger, I'm confused. Let me back up. I should have indicated that this AR is, essentially, new. I got it in June, had a barrel alignment problem, sent it back for service. Got it back a month or so later with a new stainless steel barrel, and currently have about three hundred rounds through it. I normally clean and lube after firing. Except for the gas tube, I usually run a couple patches, pull the carrier and bolt, wipe clean and lightly lube working surfaces, lugs, etc. using BreakFree CLP.

Let me ask, would the rings already need attention?

And, just how often is gas tube cleaning normally done?
(I do have to learn how to open it up. etc.)

In any case, thanks to all for your input.

-Andy

[Badger Arms]

Not that the rings would need attention this soon but they might not have been made right in the first place. Make sure that the gaps are NOT lined up first. I have never cleaned the inside of the gas tube and I do not suggest you ever try it. It is the only part on the rifle that is, essentially, self-cleaning. Now as far as cleaning the bolt carrier, do you take the bolt out and clean all the little parts too? Excuse me for the simple question, but I've known people who don't feel the need to disassemble it further than just taking the bolt-carrier assembly out.

It's probably jsut a magazine problem if all else looks good. Mark the magazine and don't use it again. I think there are some outfits that will sell you the body so long as you are using it for replacement and not to 'manufacture' a new post-ban magazine which would be illegal under Federal Law. (despite the fact that the Federal Government has no jurisdiction under the 2nd and 10th ammendments to enforce laws of this sort at a local level... interstate commerce my behind!)

[yankytrash]

Hey there you ol' bat, good to hear from you, even if you are having troubles....

If I were you, I wouldn't swear there's a problem yet with that 2nd mag issue. Try'r again, but make sure you give it a good hard whack to make sure it's set. You know, Rambo-style. Put the butt of the rifle on your hip, insert mag, swing back with your hand and whack the bottom of the mag a good one. Sure it looks goofy to do, but the most common problem with immediate FTF's in an AR is not having the mag completely seated. It might look like it's seated, it might feel like it's seated, and the first round (or more) might strip off the mag like it's seated, but it might not be seated. The design of the straight-insert mag is fast and easy, but doesn't give a good positive indication of proper installation like the "rockers" of the likes of the FAL or AK variants.

Gas rings being lined up won't usually be the problem. Experiments have been extensively done with the AR's gas rings lined up, with no FTF's, by myself and others.

As for the mount, sounds like these boys have a good trick already. I personally prefer to use a set of long channel locks to crank'r down. It does take some torque to keep anything stable on the carry handle hole. Small drawback to the design, if you ask me, and the only fix they've come up with is removable handles, eliminating the carry handle mount altogether.

[Ironbarr]

No, Badger, I haven't disassembled the bolt parts, but I do try to keep it (otherwise) clean and lubed. Is this something that should be done after each firing? Somehow I didn't think it necessary with my sporadic range trips.

I'd read that the gas tube should be swabbed with a long "pipe cleaner". I stayed away for the same reason above.

I'll do the mag clean routine as recommended.

Thanks for the fast comeback.

-Andy

[Ironbarr]

Hey "yt" - I was about to rag on you - are you that busy or just hiding - haven't heard from you for a while - 'course I got caught in a honey-do that took a couple weeks - had my full attention.

I'll give the mag a whack. Waiting impatiently for a mild day to hit Pungo for some 50/100 yard sight-ins. Soon, I hope.

Be careful out there.

-Andy

[Navy joe]

Andy, If nothing else we can go through my extensive mag collection until one works for you 100%. They all worked for me, but "i'd hate to have supplied you with a useless mag. LMK.

[Bottom Gun]

Yankytrash,

If you use a flat washer with a split ring lock washer, you won't have to use channel locks. You only have to compress the lock washer for it to work and you can do that by hand if it has a thumb screw type nut. Mine hasn't loosened a bit since I added the two washers.
I'm always a bit reluctant to over tighten removable items since I may want to remove them in the field where I'll have to do it without tools.
Just a thought. . . . . .

[Ironbarr]

I'm not close to that - hadn't even thought of it. But thanks for the offer.

If I could get out to range more often (than has been this winter), I'd know better re it's problem. This last time I was "testing" the new red dot and how the irons matched up. Barely used one box of shells (I was on a short leash).

Both the red dot and irons seem to be close now (25 yd indoor) and I'm aching to get a decent day for Pungo's outdoor range to get "on". The mag thing came up when I "tested" for full 30's dormant for a couple months by running a series of groups off the top of each one.

Anyway, I'll know better after more "work" (fun).

But, folks, let me ask this:

Is it "normal" for detachable handle irons to zero out, windage wise, at almost into the stops? In this case, the right side? I ask because the previous barrel misalignment had me cranked almost into the left stops.

I'd really hate to have to send it back again... six weeks is a long time to wait.

Thanks again, NAV Joe.

[Redlg155]

Normal? Nope.

I'd suggest a couple of things.

1. Take it off and remount it. Then check to see if your point of impact changes.

2. Have a buddy fire your weapon and see if they have a problem. Everyones battle sight zero is a bit different, but most folks have a zero that has a reasonable number of clicks left or right of center. When they start have them reset the sight back to the index marks.

Don't neglect your front sight base. Take a good look at see if it's canted or if the front sight post is bent a bit.

You might also want to get a mag spring/follower rebuild kit if the mag body looks good. They are very reasonable in price and can often be found under $5. Dissasemble the magazine and and try pushing the follower up and down inside of the magazine. Look for any dents or spots where the follower may hang up.

One last item to check is your buffer spring. If it's starting to get a bit old you might not have enough power in it to reliable strip rounds from a full magazine. It may work fine with a half mag because the tension required to strip a round is much less but with a full mag it is a different story. If you have a spare try swapping one out and see what happens. I wouldn't think this would be the problem because you state you bought the weapon NEW, but I thought I'd throw that idea out there.



Good Shooting
RED

[Badger Arms]

I doubt that a clean bolt is your problem, but you should at least take the bolt carrier assembly down this far:

Remove the firing pin retaining pin.
Slide the firing pin out the rear.
Twist the bolt cam pin (square top) 90 degrees.
Push the bolt all the way into the bolt carrier.
Remove the bolt cam pin.
Remove the bolt.
Using pressure with your thumb, depress the extractor (that's the thing that hooks the rim and pulls the case out) while at the same time pushing the extractor pin out.

Reassemble in the reverse order. Take care not to remove the ejector on the bolt face or the spring adn plastic spring guide on the extractor. All surfaces should be cleaned and lightly lubed. Pay special attention to the extractor channel and the tiny groove on the extractor. Some people argue about removing the extractor, I don't. It's easy and another step that will keep your rifle running.

If you download the Armalite Manual below in PDF format, it gives you a great description, if a little fuzzy in the illustrations.

[Ironbarr]

Red and Badger - thanks for your support in this learning curve thing I have going.

PDF link? Did I miss it?

-Andy

[Badger Arms]

http://www.bushmaster.com/electronic-documents/operation-manual/opmanual.zip

I forgot to include the link. Sorry, here is Bushmaster's. It's over 3 magabytes but worth it. It goes into greater detail on what should be done to properly maintain an AR-15 type rifle. If you don't have PKzip or Acrobat Reader, get them from the links at the Bushmaster site:

http://www.bushmaster.com/electronic-documents/operation-manual/Default.asp

[Ironbarr]

Thank you, sir - got it!

[Navy joe]

The gas tube itself is very self cleaning. Just clean the part staked onto the carrier and inside the carrier itself. My last AR went 8 yrs and 8000 rds with no messing with the gas tube. If I felt the need I woulda just installed a new one.

[Ironbarr]

When are you going to make Pungo? $12 all day - $60/yr I'm told. Hope this spring breaks early. I'm ready.