can i use this on a human?

http://www.defensedevices.com/bearpepspray.html

it says it is very similar to normal pepper spray, but is in a huge container for use against bears and such. In the picture it looks like a fire extinguisher! I wouldn't mind carrying one of these from time to time. Would any of you trust this thing? Thanks in advance!

come on, no takers? :D worried i might take it as legal advice? ;)

I once saw two women use one of those (or something like it) on two guys who were in a car next to them at the same stop light.

It was a summer evening and the damm thing looked like a fire extinguisher going off. Blasted a big fog cone into the drivers side, filled the car and went right on out the passenger side window.

It put an end to the harrassment of the women by these two fellows. They both jumped out of their car and were doing all they could to tear their clothes off as the women sped away from the stop light.

To say it was effective is understatement. :D

If it works on bears, it should be good against people. It's 20%, correct? What is FOX labs, 10%? What are the other specs, Scoville units, etc. ?

wow it sounds like a very potent defensive weapon. Plus if i peel off the bear picture nobody will know it wasn't meant for humans :) becuase there is nothing on the site stating "do not use on people" unless it says so on the can. is there any type of federal law against the % content of the pepper spray?

They make backpack-tank models for use in prisons controlling riots, and clearing cellblocks. Arm-slung models too, that hold several GALLONS of OC. And I think pretty much anyone can buy them. Galls sells them. :)

the large units we use inside the walls are called Israeli foggers, and they are filled with the same 10% we use in our handheld and crowd control units. Foggers are COOL! Always check the wind before using it....

If you go through Canada (at least this used to be the deal a few years back) you couldn't bring "self-defense" pepper spray through the border. You could however bring "bear-defense" spray. If the bottle said "Bear Guard" or "Counter-Assault" (has a bear on the label) you were ok. :rolleyes:

I like the "bear" type for keeping in the car cause they're bigger.

Never thought about using it at a stoplight....

Type R? Meet Type OC. :evil:

Sure, why not? If it'll work on bears, it should be at least as effective on people. Don't know how it is in KY, but n VA, hosing someone with OC with out a real good reason is a class 6 felony, chose your fights carefully :evil:

so all these examples you guys are saying is 10%, if this stuff is 20% will it have any serious damage? If i do buy one of these i have every intention of having somebody shoot me with it first (i don't feel i should administer something i havn't experienced) should i do it in the hospital parking lot just to be safe? :) or am i just an idiot for wanting to get pepper sprayed?

(i don't feel i should administer something i havn't experienced) :what:
Can I be the one to "administer" the "experience" of whatever caliber of pistol you carry?!?!?

I guess that'd be a great argument for carrying a mouse gun!

Omni04, I can only guess that you really never have experienced the thrill of OC up the nose! Just make sure that you have nothing else scheduled for the rest of the day...You could do it in a hospital parking lot, but other than time, screaming and puking, there is nothing that will help!

ok, ok, i get the drift. lol, maybe i will just do a drive by pepper spraying and watch the news later that night :D

You're not supposed to tell us before you do crap like that... :rolleyes:

Having been through a tear gas chamber, and gotten some OC in my direction, yeah, you're an idiot! :neener:

i want to get some

Hey Omni... dont feel bad, man.
Don't worry... I got you covered. I'll hook you up.

I'll spray you with some OC. No problem.

*looking for my camcorder*

lol, you guys better be quiet, i have bear pepper spray and i am not afraid to use it :D

when i get home tonight (im at work) i think i am going to order a canister of it. Well, first i think i will look up laws on carrying it. (more thaqn likley going to go in my glove box though)

Ever been sprayed with OC? it's no joke.

Hose somebody down with respiratory problems, they could die.

Like any other "weapon" its use should be tempered with common sense and local laws that apply to its use.

12-34hom.

Got a can of it velcroed under the end of the kitchen counter to use as an "area denial" device so that anyone bashing through the door has to wade through the fog while the wife gets the house carbine. Should slow anyone without a respirator down.

I spoke with both Bear Guard and Counter Assault at the SHOT show and they have had people tell them about trying it out on themselves/pals. By all reports they said it's at least as bad as FOX.

hso,

I'm pretty sure that if you spray that indoors then YOU are going to be feeling it. Especially if it's a fogger.

brad cook

I'm pretty sure that if you spray that indoors then YOU are going to be feeling it. Especially if it's a fogger.


Pepper foam is the way to go indoors.

more thaqn likley going to go in my glove box though

Make sure the cannister doesn't burst inside your car on a hot summer day! ;)

If you fog your house, you will and the BadGuy will both be vomiting and screaming on the floor... :eek:

You guys are nuts.

I haven't tried Fox yet, but there was the previous hottest spray that had 3.3 million scoville units. I actually liked it in food! But getting sprayed with it is a whole 'other deal. You see it's not so much about the potency of chemical as it is the amount of spray you're hitting a person with.

BTW I can take a hit and keep on trucking for at least several seconds. Better hope I don't reach you and wrestle that pepper spray from you. :D

I also have several Mexican buddies, most are indifferent to the stuff. They don't care, just get pissed off. Generally I find that the defense of life is best met with the use of lethal force.

Personally I wouldn't do it. I'd be worried about the "intent" factor. I'm not a lawyer or anything, but have had friend gt into predicaments because their "intent" was questioned, as it would be in this case. I could see a lawyer saying that you intended to inflict serious bodily harm, thats why you used bear spray instead of that used by police officers. Just mho.

jojo

If you live in an area with bears/large dogs and you keep it in your car/house all the time I doubt it'd be an issue. It'd just be the weapon at hand.

Plus, there is no real difference between the compounds, it might have a higher Scoville or % capsaicin, but it is still just pepper spray.

hmmm this may seem odd. But since so many companies make pepper spray, would it be possible just to remove the label? And if i did end up using it just say "hey, it's pepper spray, it's old and i don't know what website i got it at"

since it is the same chemically would i get in trouble?

Not worth worrying about. If you are justified in using it and it is legal to own, you used it because it was what you had at hand.

what is the differenc between scoville units and % OC? i know the scoville units of FOX spray, but not the OC. And i know the OC of bear pepper spray, but not the scoville units. Hmmm i just want to get the biggest bang possible :D

Scoville is a measure of the "heat" of the product. % OC is the percent of the total solution that is pepper.

You can have a high percentage of lower heat OC or a low percentage of high heat. Typically, if I read correctly, Scoville is a better overall measure of effectiveness.

I think you are over-thinking this. Just get Fox or another quality brand. In general, it will work or it won't, and that is a more a factor of the sprayee.

I heard that bears love it when you use this stuff, it helps to favor their food, YOU :what: :evil:

I've been through the gas chamber while in the military. I would not recommend that you "test" the stuff out on yourself :uhoh: .

Wayne

carebear, i wouldn't consider this overthinking, id consider it preparation. plus does fox shoot out like a fogger?

I do know that 10% OC will run a skunk off the front porch if you get it in its face! Kinda like turning the tables on the little stinkers!

Spray me? Nope, I'll spray you ! :evil:

omni,

Didn't mean any insult. I just don't think there's a legal angle on which kind is "ok" to use on a human and outside of the scoville question, any difference in effectiveness.

I don't know about Fox in particular but I prefer the "spray" types. I think they are a bit more precise and a little less likely to blow back on you, being less "misty" and more liquid.

We had a customer test-fire a bear fogger outside our range once, upwind thanks to Murphy, it was an uncomfortable work day till we got everything wiped down.

Bleach, nature's response to chemical weapons. :)

i bought a pepper spray concealed as a pen one time at a local flea market. It was 10 bucks and i thought it looked cool at the time. I shot a couple practice rounds at a tree and it was like a water pistol. Because of that, i realized if it came to the point of me needing to use it, i wouldn't be able to hit them in the face. I would have to pull it out, aim, and probably miss (assuming he didn't block)

i figured a fogger would be more effective. and stumbled on the bear pepper spray. Does fox make foggers?

(not trying to prelong the thread, but does anybody know if this stuff will freeze and shatter the can? or like somebody mentioned explode on a hot day in the glove box? That is where i wanted to keep it but didn't even know if it was safe.)

I keep mine in the car (glove box) and it works more slowly when cold, but typically the glove box warms up as the rest of the car does. So, after 5 minutes on the road, no problem. I'm more concerned about settling so I make sure to shake the can whenever I touch it.

It hasn't blown yet, but that's an Anchorage 80 deg. summer so YMMV.

I intend to aim at the face but move it like a hose, the stuff I use is kind of a cone of droplets, not a cloud of mist, if that makes sense. Sure the head moves, but so does my hand, and for people, it'll be probably at arm's length or so by the time I'm justified to use it.

You might check snopes or mythbusters to see if aerosols will actually pop under real-world temperatures. I remember on MB they cooked a can of soda and it took a furnace heat to go, far more than a Death Valley glove box. I know my pepper didn't pop or leak when flying in the baggage hold.

or like somebody mentioned explode on a hot day in the glove box? That is where i wanted to keep it but didn't even know if it was safe.


That was me. The fine print on my cannister of OC reads: "Caution: Do not puncture, incinerate or store over 120F". I guarantee my car exceeds 120F when parked in the sun on a summer day in Texas. :uhoh:

I just found a place selling pepper spray designed to be kept in the car:

http://www.defensedevices.com/autopepperunit.html

I'm sure others sell similar products.

Wouldn't pepper spray qualify as wounding?

If you are not justified in using lethal force, you aren't in enough danger to wound someone either.

If you choose to use pepper spray or any other non-/less-than-lethal device in a situation where lethal force is justified, I supppose that's your choice. Like those who swat the bad guy with a purse or something.

But if you use it in any other situation (vs a person) just to end an arguement, or run off a panhandler- you are escalating the encounter.

Personally, I would only use it against animals which I generally do not want to kill; like the neighbors 100-lb mastiff getting too excited around my 3-year old.

If I needed lethal force and didn't have a firearm or somesuch, I guess pepper spray would be next in line.

Follow?
C-

Nope, "shooting to wound" is legally wrong because you are using an explicitly "lethal force" weapon (gun) in a situation that has been shown by your action to be considered by you to not require lethal force.

Pepper spray is (legally, anyway) defined as non-lethal. It falls lower on the force continuum and thus can be considered a (legally) reasonable response to a situation which is considered by you to be dangerous but not deadly.

Right or wrong, non-weaponed physical assault by a comparatively sized person does not justify lethal force in response in most places. Your response legally must be reasonably commensurate to the threat. Pepper spray is considered, more or less, a gaseous counter-punch.

so does anybody know if fox labs makes a fogger? i can't find it on the site ive been browsing :D

http://www.foxlabs.com/Aerosols.html

odd... everybody is saying fox labs is 10% oc. it says on the site it is 2%? omg this stuff is confusing!!!! low OC doesn't mean it is a bad spray apparently?

OMni,

No, low % doesn't equal bad. I don't know what makes Fox so good but for some reason it works very fast and it works well.

I don't know of foggers that they have but I know for sure that on some of their sprays you can choose cone or stream. I wouldn't want a fogger personally. That much dissipation means more chance of blowback.

brad cook

My can of fox labs 2 ounce flip top stream is 2% OC, but 5.3 Million SHU's.
My can of Guard Alaska Bear Spray is listed as 1.3% OC! I believe it has an additive that increases skin absorption of the OC to help it be effective thru the fur faster. It also squirts out a fluid ounce per second, much more volume than the Fox. Makes sense as bears are bigger.

Dont over-think this. The percent of OC means NOTHING!!!!! Its all about how potent it is as measured by SHU's and how much of it you get exposed to.

Think of the Heat Units as milligrams (mg) of a drug, say aspirin, and you have a headache and 325 milligrams of aspirin will take care of it. You can take a larger volume of low-potency tablets, i.e. three hundred and twenty-five tablets containing 1 mg each (for sake of arguement all tablets in this post are the same size). Or, you can take a single 325mg tab.
Both dosing regimens will work for the headache as they both give you 325mg of aspirin. But it will take FOREVER to swallow all those low-dose tabs, whereas the effetive dose will be delivered much more quickly with the single 325mg tab.
The Fox labs is the 325mg tab: highly concentrated potency.
The Bob's Surplus Jalapeno Juice spray is the hundreds of 1mg tabs: sure it will eventually be as hot as the Fox Labs, but howlong do you want to wait??

Tracking?

Now, i dont know the SHU's of the Bear spray, but if its decently hot it will be very effective since the canister really pumps out alot of juice quickly. That is, it pumps out 325mg tabs over and over again to really overdose the target! Imagine the Fox Labs formula in a 'super soaker canister' like the Bear!

Hope that helped.
C-

My can of Guard Alaska Bear Spray is listed as 1.3% OC!

1.3% OC or 1.3% capsaicin? Pure capsaicin is 15,000,000 SHUs.

If it's 1.3% capsaicin, the overall product would be 195,000 SHUs (15,000,000 x .013). Fox Labs would be 106,000 SHUs (5,300,000 x .02).

Pure capscaicin being 15million SHU's, that is: thanks for that info.

So OK, the Bear is 1.3% capscaicin, not OC.
So it dumps 9 ounces of that, which also contains some amount of a toxic 'inert' ingredient: bichloroethylene (I think), in 9 seconds.

The FOX labs, though, is listed as 5.3 million SHU's. So the percent OC or just C or whatever doesn't get reduced by the math.
So which is more potent?

The Guard Alaska people wont give a SHU rating, and go into why not on their website.

Which works better against humans? bears? Good question!

C-

oh i see, so you can buy stream, cone, and foggers? i saw the picture on the fox site it didn't look like a fogger or a stream, so it must of been a cone. ill look into buying a Fox Labs Cone then. thank you!

Call the guy at Fox Labs, he's pretty chatty and will tell you everything you want to know and help yuo decide what you want based on expected range, target, etc/
C-

So which is more potent?


2% of 5.3 million is 106000.
1.3% of 15 million is 195000.

So the bear spray is hotter.