Would you want a taser?

I thought tasers were supposed to be a pretty fool-proof non-lethal solution... apparently I stand corrected.

http://www.hernandotoday.com/MGBNT6SDF2E.html

Man unfazed by Tasers, pepper spray, canine
By CLIFF HIGHTOWER chightower@hernandotoday.com
Published: Dec 6, 2004

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BROOKSVILLE - Authorities arrested a Brooksville man Sunday after he fought off deputies and was stunned five times.
Rudolph Jessie Hicks Jr., 30, of 206 Bayport Drive, faces charges of battery on a law enforcement officer, resisting an officer with violence and trespassing, records show.
He was in the Hernando County Jail Monday with bail set at $15,500.
After Hicks was arrested, he reportedly told authorities he might have smoked the drug PCP beforehand, but was unsure.
According to a Hernando County Sheriff's Office report, the incident occurred as follows:
Deputies Gary Taylor and Jason Tippin arrived in the area of Martin Luther King Jr. Boulevard and Peach Street around 1 a.m. Sunday after receiving a report of a person acting strangely at Crossroads Bar.
Deputies in a Hernando County Sheriff's Office helicopter located Hicks as he walked to 817 Peach Street.
He was disoriented and mumbled to himself. When deputies spoke to the owner of the home, the man told authorities he saw Hicks occasionally, but didn't know who he was.
The owner of the home told deputies he had told Hicks to leave his property, but Hicks wouldn't leave. After deputies warned Hicks, he still wouldn't leave.
Deputy Taylor told Hicks he was being placed under arrest for trespassing.
Taylor grabbed Hicks' arm to handcuff him and Hicks reportedly cursed at the officer and fought him off.
The deputy drove his Taser into Hicks' left buttocks and stunned him for five seconds, but the man wasn't fazed. He turned and pushed the deputy to the ground.
Hicks then walked towards the deputy and Taylor fired a Taser shot at Hicks, who ripped the probes out. Taylor fired a full can of pepper spray into Hicks' eyes and. Deputy Tippin fired a Taser shot into Hicks' back. Neither affected Hicks and he ripped the wires out from the second Taser shot.
Hicks ran north on Peach Street. Deputies caught up to Hicks and Taylor fired another Taser into Hicks' back.
He kept running.
Deputies fired a third and fourth time, but Hicks ran into Hale Oaks Apartments.
When he reached the apartments, deputies unleashed a K-9 dog on him. The dog bit down on Hicks' right calf, but the dog loosened for half a second and Hicks ran once again
At the back of the apartments he tried to fight off deputies, but was finally handcuffed.
Hicks was taken to Brooksville Regional Hospital where he was treated for a small abrasion to his lip and a small cut on the back of his head. Several Taser probes were removed from his body, authorities said.


Interesting. I thought that the tasers electric shock worked on such a biological level that drugs wouldn’t affect it.
-Nick

PCP is pretty crazy. You hear stories all the time of guys on PCP taking multiple gunshots to the chest with little or no effect. They might all be stories but still...

On tasers...why would I carry a taser when I can just as easily carry a far more effective means of defense? Not saying that a handgun would definitely get me out of that sort of situation but I'd feel more comfortable with the idea of a guy on PCP coming at me with a shooting iron in my hand.

I was attempting to arrest a guy who was actively resisting myself and another officer, we almost had him when a pair of State Troopers arrived (we had called for backup earlier) one had a tazer.

I was in the middle of the guys back, had one arm pinned under my leg trying to grasp his other, he was a really big dude, about 600 and 280 pounds flailing around like a 300 pound octopus, I’m 600 and 185.

When… POW!!!! The lights went out, next thing I remember I was on my back in the middle of the street, my Captain was over me asking me if I was ok.

Trooper had popped him with the tazer and got me with it.

So long as its a T(achyon) A(mplification by) S(timulated) E(mission of) R(adiation) and the target hit is pushed to some random point in a random time-line. :evil:

As for the current form of a taser, no. I'll take a firearm thank you.

Nothing ALWAYS works-look how many people survive solid hits with large caliber weapons.

That said, the Taser dropped my 220#, multiple black belt ass like a bad habit. It wasn't a matter of pain-I've been in sufficent pain before to knock me unconscious-it was simply a matter of loss of muscular control in the area between the leads, in this case my lower body.

Which is not to say that it didn't hurt-it did. But the effectiveness (on me, at least) was the muscular contractions.

But with all that, AS SOON as the shock stopped I got to my feet and could have fought. There is really no lasting, even termporarily lasting, effect to the device. For SD, I think you'd need one that could also let you cover the guy in pepper foam while you're shocking him, so you had a chance to get away.


FWIW,


Larry

I don't want the possibility of the bad guy having the upper hand, if I whip out a taser, and he has a pistola, that would not make for an optimal situation. I want somethin that goes boom a bunch of times if needed.

I'll think about a Taser when it's available in .357 magnum caliber.

I think I'd have to pass. If it was the only things available, then why not but that would be the only way.

jojo

Sure. I like weapons of just about any kind. The only ones I wouldn't want would be NBC weapons because safe storage of those things is such a pain.

I wouldn't mind having a taser, if I could mount it on my evil black "assault" rifle. Seems like it would be more practical than one of those "shoot into the light" tactical flashlights. And it would give me another option.

If you could rail mount a taser that would be allright. You could put it on a shotgun, cover the perp with the shottie,taser him and make a citizens arrest.
(need handcuffs for this.)

I'd take an AR with barrel mounted Taser and grenade launcher underneath. And a nice slection of grenades, running from tear gas and smoke to tactical nuclear. And a shotgun, just in case. Just imagine the threat/response escalation matrix! Anyway, infinite flexibility, that's my motto.

TASER(R) International Introduces the X-Rail Mounting System (http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/041029/laf026a_1.html)

"SCOTTSDALE, Ariz., Oct. 29
TASER International, Inc. a market leader in advanced non-lethal devices announced today the public introduction of the TASER X-Rail(TM) System. The X-Rail is a mounting system that attaches the TASER X26 non-lethal conducted energy weapon to military and law enforcement rifles through a Picatinny Rail, an accessory that allows the attachment of items such as lights, sighting systems, and now the TASER X26.

The X-Rail was originally developed by TASER International to support the US military efforts in Iraq and Afghanistan. The X-Rail provides an integrated, scalable non-lethal capability to the M4 and M16 platforms. The integration of the TASER X-Rail and X26 into the M4/M16 allows the soldier to make split second transitioning from lethal to non-lethal force when dealing with engagements mixed with enemy combatants and unarmed or lightly armed individuals.

Based upon feedback that TASER International has received from field use, enhancements have been made to the system, including a quick release mechanism that will now allow it to be mounted anywhere on the forearm of the weapon, resulting in a system that is roughly half the size of the original design. These enhancements and tactical applications of the X-Rail make it a perfect fit for the law enforcement community, both domestically and abroad. In addition to the M4 and M16, the X-Rail will mount on most weapon systems that feature the Picatinny Rail Interface, including the H&K MP5, one of the most prevalent entry weapons used by Special Response and SWAT teams.

"We are excited to introduce the new X-rail system which has seen great success in military application for the last few months of test and evaluations, resulting in a follow-on purchase by the U.S. Military of several hundred X-Rails" said Rick Smith, CEO of TASER International. "This development allows military and law enforcement SWAT teams the opportunity to have a dual use platform for their entry weapons. Moreover, given the nature of the military's current policing environments overseas, this can provide military personnel a non-lethal force option in areas mixed with combatants and civilians," stated Mr. Smith."

Wonder if they'll sell to civilians?

As a point on the continuum of force? Sure. I think they definitely have their uses.

As to their absolute effectiveness as a defensive tool? Well, one old deputy summed it up thusly:
"I've run across folks that don't seem to mind OC or CS. I've met people who aren't as phased by electric shocks as other people. I have yet to see anyone who's bulletproof." :D

Tamara's right (again). A taser is a useful tool for law enforcement, as a setp on the force heirarchy. I've seen it used well by law enforcement. I saw video of a Trooper drawing his taser left hander and Sig right handed as a suspect exited his vehicle with his hand on a pistol in his belt. The taser was fired immediately, and dropped teh guy like a stone, whereupon he was disarmed and secured. funny, the Taser saved his life, for all intents and purposes.

For me, I'll keep my gun.

More options are good; if I wasn't a 26" waist and had more belt space, I'd consider it.

Take an ASP Baton and write "TAZER" on the handle.

Somewhat like George, give me an 8 oz. flat sap like a Midget and I can stamp "Tazer" into the leather :)

I don't think the tazer is practical for non-LEOs. It seems more useful as a means to put someone down and keep them there so that you can contain/cuff them. That's not really the need that I have as a non-LEO. I need something that can either stop the threat if it's deadly (gun) or just give me enough time to get away if it's not (OC spray). I suppose a tazer could serve the second purpose but I think that OC is more practical for my needs.

Also...what non-leo wants to conceal a tazer when you're already concealing a pistol?!

brad cook

Trooper had popped him with the tazer and got me with it.

FedWeasel,

Do you mean he actually got you with one or both of the barbs? Tazer claims that if a BG has both barbs in him and is receiving a shock that he can be handled and cuffed without the handler receiving the shock as well. I was wondering if that's really true.

brad cook

what is the difference between a taser and a stun gun?

tasers shoot the barbs and stun guns are the handheld versions that don't shoot right? I have a non-shooting version and it was marked on the box as tazer. Are those even effective? Im aware i probably had a crappy one it ran on 2 9-volts, but i could hold that thing on my arm/leg all day and it not bother me. Would it be different if i was smacked in the face/heart with it?

i guess im just asking if stun guns contain near the power of their barb-shooting brothers.

Omni,

I don't think stun guns are as effective. One thing about the new generation of tazers though is that once you shoot out the barbs you can also press the end of it against someone and use it like a stun gun.

brad cook

I don't want the possibility of the bad guy having the upper hand, if I whip out a taser, and he has a pistola, that would not make for an optimal situation. I want somethin that goes boom a bunch of times if needed.

ok it seems like a lot of you think along these lines- but consider this-
ok you got the rare occasion of a PCP head, who even your gun may not actually stop right away, but that aside-

the thing about taser/pepper spary , whatever- although seems like the taser is best here, (also know they do occasionally kill people)
here's my point-
bad guy is walking towards you.
with a gun, you have to be SURE he's bad before you shoot him.
with the taser, you dont got to wait for him to pull something out of his pocket.
worst possibilty you could down the guy and run away if he turns out to be a non threat.
you shoot him, yer in really big trouble.

In my training on the TASER (Thomas A. Smith's (or Swift, I forget) Electric Rifle), one of the darts stuck to flesh, the other got hung up in the t-shirt and hung next to the skin. The current will travel 2.5" without direct contact between dart and skin.

The targeted trainee was able to remain standing with the help of spotters, and struggled to walk across the room. Were it not for the spotters though, he'd have been down. We're trained to do a drive-stun if the desired effect (total incapacitation) is not reached.

If you go for the less-lethal option when the violater has chosen a lethal option, you chose incorrectly.

Ken,

Thanks for the correction on spelling. Every time I was writing "tazer" I was wondering if it was spelled correctly...I was thinking it didn't look right with the 'z'.

brad cook

I was told at my CCW class that a Taser is more effective than a handgun in terms of its ability to stop, especially within close distances and if the bad guy is moving towards you already.

I was told at my CCW class that a Taser is more effective than a handgun in terms of its ability to stop, especially within close distances and if the bad guy is moving towards you already.

I'd say that's a completely relative statement that's totally dependent on circumstances. I don't think one can make a blanket statement like that. Sometimes it might sometimes it might not.

brad cook

Police officers using a taser typically have cover... other officers with (real) guns pointed at the suspect.
with the taser, you dont got to wait for him to pull something out of his pocket.
Taking that advice is a good way to wind up on the receiving end of a nasty lawsuit. You can also be sure that if the situation wasn't serious enough to require a firearm, using a taser and screwing it up will almost certainly escalate to the point where you do need a gun. In the meantime, you will have lost time and separation distance (civilian tasers have a range of 15').

Apparently the recommendation is to fire the taser, pull the trigger 2 more times for a 30 second shock, and run. That may work in public, but doesn't sound like such a good idea for a lot of other situations... and 30 seconds isn't all that much of a head start. 30 seconds also sounds extreme to me, like it might cause some serious problems.