Why isn't a .22LR considered Tactical?


PDA

twoblink
March 2, 2003, 01:26 PM
I've got two friends (I won't mention their names....) BUT they seem to think that .22's aren't very tactical..

I think they are... a Ruger 10/22 and a box of subsonics is about as tactical as it gets!

Opinions?

If you enjoyed reading about "Why isn't a .22LR considered Tactical?" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!
Tamara
March 2, 2003, 01:29 PM
We know one is Skunk, who's the other one?

Will someone explain to me just what "tactical" is, anyway? I always thought it meant "black and expensive"...

El Tejon
March 2, 2003, 01:31 PM
tactical=fighting.

two, sure enough, depends on what you want to do with it. A suppressed .22 has a wide range of fighting applications.

Riphalman
March 2, 2003, 01:32 PM
I'm not sure exactly what "tactical" implies. However, the .22 rimfire has a very long list of potential applications. Among these might include limited used in some police or military situations. The word "tactical" is one of those whose real meaning has been lost in the world of advertising and Madison Avenue hype.......in my opinion.

twoblink
March 2, 2003, 01:33 PM
The other is the person who introduced me to the wonderful world of firearms..

Tam..

"Tactical" means an 80% markup.. :D

Have you seen the price of Volquartsen's .22LR rifle?? It's black and VERY expensive.. I think in the $1300 ballpark..

Greybeard
March 2, 2003, 01:43 PM
Got one semi .22 carbine that's going on 38'th year of assaulting crows. Telling me that ain't tactical? ;)

Meow
March 2, 2003, 01:51 PM
tactical 1. Of or pertaining to tactics. NEW COLLEGE EDITION THE AMERICAN HERITAGE DICTIONARY OF THE ENGLISH LANGUAGE

AZTOY
March 2, 2003, 01:52 PM
I heard somewhere that the .22 pistols was the gun of choice for the Mob Hitmen ,when thay need to do some up close work.

12.7x99mm
March 2, 2003, 02:04 PM
Take a look at what the Israeli’s are doing with 10/22 not to mention how scary accurate Mark II are.

Also read a few books (if you haven’t/want to)

With Out Remorse ~ Clancy

and/or

Unintended Consequences ~ Ross

Archie
March 2, 2003, 02:09 PM
tactics refer to a particular situation.

If the immediate situation calls for a sniper hit in excess of 350 meters, a 22 lr is not tactical.
If the situation calls for putting out street lights to deploy cover officers, it's very tactical.
If the problem is perimeter defense against a frontal assault, 22 lr is not tactical.
If the problem is taking out a sentry walking a guard post, a quiet 22 lr could be just the ticket.

"Tactical" is not a one size fits all description. Except for "matte-black, overpriced."

El Tejon
March 2, 2003, 02:18 PM
Good one, Archie. It depends, always a tactical answer.:)

12.7x99mm
March 2, 2003, 02:22 PM
Someone here posted on a thread about "What would you do if you could remake the military firearms currently in service" - or something like that.

The poster had an idea of a 22 mini gun. I thought that was a fantastic idea for suppressive fire in some situations. Not to mention the 10’s of thousands of rounds a person could carry.

SquirrelNuts
March 2, 2003, 02:55 PM
12.7x99mm,

There was a TFL thread about that. A .22LR mini-gun that shot at random for cover fire. Sure, I will put my head down for a .22 just as fast as a 7.62 or .50 round any day. The problem with such a weapon is that it would be an easy target to take out. It would be very easy to find b/c of the spray and pray at random technique.

-SquirrelNuts

shermacman
March 2, 2003, 03:01 PM
I have a Ruger 22/45 semi-auto pistol that is louder than a cannon. :eek: Not very tactical except for acoustic intimidation. But it is the most accurate pistol I have ever fired which makes it very tactical (for short distances)!

Deadman
March 2, 2003, 04:25 PM
When Soviet troops marched into Grozny back in 99/00, the Chechen guerillas learnt/knew that Soviet body armour didn't cover the groin region.

So the Chechen guerillas started sniping with suppressed .22lr rifles, specifically targeting the groin region of Soviet troops. The nature of the urban terrain and the reduced noise made it very difficult for Soviet troops to pin point where the shots were coming from.

In the end, because it had occured often enough, morale in the Soviet ranks went downhill at the thought of being castrated by .22's.

SquirrelNuts
March 2, 2003, 07:10 PM
Ouch! That is the best tactical use of a .22 I have ever heard.

-SquirrelNuts

Meow
March 2, 2003, 08:37 PM
ooow

doesn't Mossad(sp) use 22 pistols?

JMLV
March 2, 2003, 08:42 PM
used silenced 10/22's as sniper weapons in the army? If so that makes them as tacital as any thing else out there. Slap a black plastic stock on it and a matte black scope and viola a tacital 10/22!:D
Should be good enough for even Skunk.

gun-fucious
March 2, 2003, 09:32 PM
this little 22LR is so tactical,
it don't need no carbon fiber:
http://club.guns.ru/eng/sv99.html

seeker_two
March 2, 2003, 10:47 PM
Israel's 10/22's (http://www.isayeret.com/weapons/sws/ruger/ruger.htm)

It don't get more tactical than that...:cool:

As a result of this test, the JAG reclassified the Ruger as a lethal weapon.

Any Texas poacher could have told them that...:banghead:

Dave R
March 2, 2003, 10:53 PM
Sadly, most folks are using an outdated definition of "tactical". It used to mean something like "appropriate for the tactics at hand". But now, even a casual reading of the current firearms literature assures the reader that it means "expensive."

The .22lr is not tactical because it is not expensive.

twoblink
March 3, 2003, 02:34 AM
http://www.volquartsen.com/default.asp?cat=22+LR+Rifles

These things are priced like M1A's!! If tactical = expensive, then these things are tactical...

A .22 rifle and a box of subsonics, choice of a lot of middle-east special forces..

the Ruger 22/45 is standard issue in some parts of the world..

Kharn
March 3, 2003, 08:35 AM
Because most people (including myself) wont pony up the $200 tax for a suppressor to make their own Hush Puppy.

Kharn

Double Naught Spy
March 3, 2003, 09:21 AM
Okay, so what if a .22 isn't considered tactical? Why is that relevant to anything? Whether or not something is 'tactical' is going to depend not on a perceived reputation but application.

Similarly, there are folks who didn't seemed threatened by a lil' .22 pointed at them because they didn't feel the .22 could do much damage. Their perception of the .22 didn't matter as they have ended up dead by the .22 just like the perception of the .22 as being tactical or not does not matter.

twoblink
March 3, 2003, 09:30 AM
DNP, I find those who don't respect the .22 to be just stupid. I'm not fond of getting shot, and I don't care if it's by a 308 or a .22LR.

The reason it matters whether or not a 22 is tactical; is because there are people I know... who refuse to buy a .22LR because they view it as untactical...

JohnBT
March 3, 2003, 10:06 AM
And there are those who view the .22 rimfire as less than manly. Probably because they never figured out how to shoot one accurately :)

John

Jesse H
March 3, 2003, 10:29 AM
We know one is Skunk, who's the other one?

I bet it's 10-ring. :p

twoblink
March 3, 2003, 11:23 AM
Nope. The other one is a buddy of mine named Chris. He's very "tactical" as well, only owns black weapons, HK's etc..

Skunk can't find a woman 'cause he doesn't own a .22LR in anything!!

I use to take at least 2 new female shooters to the range a month... why? two main reasons:

Ruger 10/22
Ruger 22/45

.22LR's.. One of my all time favorite rounds... It's killed more things then all other rounds combined. Also, it's the most shot round.. The most economical round too.

Mike Irwin
March 3, 2003, 11:38 AM
Why, and more importantly how, did "tactical" ever become the buzzword of the moment in firearms?

What is, and isn't, tactical?

Is my brain tactical? Or is it strategic?

How about my sneakers? Are they MORE tactical if they're Rebok pumps?

What about my coffee? Is coffee with cream less tactical than a cup of black coffee? How about sugar? Is that the boundary line between tactical and strategic?

Is coffee with brandy the equivilent of diplomacy in a cup?

Is the fact that I'm sitting at the office, asking these questions when I should be working, tactical?

Or just lazy? :D

45R
March 3, 2003, 11:43 AM
.22LR not tactical huh...

I put more rounds through my .22 then I do with any other gun I own. Whats not tactical about a .22?

Highly accurate
Light
Easy to carry
Potent in the right hands or right shot placement
Can be used to take out guard animals
Low recoil
FUN FUN FUN!!!!

Esp when shooting at the groin of Soviet Troops. :uhoh:

BerettaNut92
March 3, 2003, 11:57 AM
You defame the skunk. :rolleyes: :D

El Tejon
March 3, 2003, 12:15 PM
Mike, tactical became the buzz word because police chiefs, especially on the West Coast, did not want to say "fighting" or "combat." So, everything related to fighting with a firearm became "tactical"--boots, clothing, knives, beer bottle openers.

HTH:

tactical=fighting;

strategic=thinking about the fight, planning for it, and finding scapegoats when things go wrong;

operational=carrying files around, talking on the phone, drinking coffee.

Ledbetter
March 3, 2003, 05:47 PM
It would be a much more tactical round if there wasn't such a high rate of hard primers/failures to fire.

By the way, for a fine display of tactical Ruger Mark II usage, see the movie "Ghost Dog" with Forrest Whittaker.

BerettaNut92
March 3, 2003, 06:27 PM
Doesn't the Israeli spy agency use .22s to whack tangos?

labgrade
March 3, 2003, 06:37 PM
A .22 LR is as tactical as anything else.

Kinda depends on if you are "tactical enough" to employ it properly.

It's never the gun/caliber, the knife, the stick, the screwdriver, or hammer it's always the mind behind the employment of the device.

Always.

Tactics is of the mind, not the thing.

Never forget this truism.

twoblink
March 3, 2003, 08:16 PM
labgrade,

for some of us, tactical means black and overpriced, with doodads on it. :D

Tactical might be a state of mind, but I have heard it be said that black weapons help you reach that state faster...

It's ok Skunk, you might not have a tactical .22, at least you have a tactical dream girl..

TheLastBoyScout
March 3, 2003, 09:09 PM
Why aren't .22s tactical? Cause you never see 'tactical' (i.e. SWAT) teams using em. Why not? Well if you had access to a police department's arms room, with racks and racks of subguns, carbines, and assault rifles, would YOU grab a .22?

Double Naught Spy
March 3, 2003, 11:53 PM
twoblink, your concern for your friends is very good and more of us should have friends like you looking out for our best interests. So your friends don't want a .22 because they don't think it is tactical. That is a very naive perspective on their part and they fail to understand that perception of being tactical is not the same thing as the application of the .22 is what determines whether or not it was tactical in a given situation.

So your friends have a bizarre reasoning on the matter. Why do you feel the need to change their minds so that they will buy .22s?

If your friends want a gun that is perceived as 'tactical,' and tactical implying that they would be using the gun for some sort of defensive shooting, then they are probably better off with larger calibers they do perceive as tactical.

twoblink
March 4, 2003, 09:28 AM
TheLastBoyScout

Err... SWAT .. DOES use .22's! They use 10/22's!! So does the Israeli special forces!

Hmm. Given all those choices; let me see what I'd grab..

Not the AR15, I hate AR's. Not the SAW, I can't work a bolt action fast enough.. Hm... You mean I can carry a Ruger 10/22 which will give me a good 100 yards sniping distance, and 1000 rounds will fit on my front pocket?? Sold! I personally WOULD take a 22 rifle and feel well armed.

DNS,

The reason is when I request (in my absence) that they take some of my female friends shooting; starting them off on M1A's probably not that great of an idea as far as convincing them that shooting is fun. Second, most of my female friends are asian and not that tall and weigh in the catagory of 90lbs... So a purple shoulder or flinching due to shooting a big caliber.

BerettaNut92
March 4, 2003, 12:03 PM
Then why did you bring your 10/22 to Tennessee when you could have easily left it with me? ;)

cheygriz
March 4, 2003, 12:18 PM
10-22s ARE tactical! Just like tinfoil hats!

labgrade
March 4, 2003, 02:23 PM
2;),

"Tactical might be a state of mind, but I have heard it be said that black weapons help you reach that state faster... "

Never anything racist, but black doesn't entail anything other than a lack of color.

We could go silly with this, but tactics is always of the mind.

I'd be hard-pressed to envision much better than a suppressed .22 (other than same-same for a .30 Whisper) - far as tactics go.

"Not being there" at all is way better than "long distance." ;)

TheLastBoyScout
March 4, 2003, 04:15 PM
Twoblink- Thats cool, to each his own

If you enjoyed reading about "Why isn't a .22LR considered Tactical?" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!